Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[Cyr]

You guys are giving up while it's still in beta?

It is always wise to deep six fundamentally flawed ideas as early in the design process as possible.

[Malshier]

If the NPC is tough, escort missions are no big deal. Ritual Sacrifice doesn't bother me... That guy is pretty tough... I never even check his health.

Hound is somewhat of an escort mission (gotta keep the dogs alive), but many people enjoy that raid and play it often.

I don't know that playing a raid often correlates to people liking the raid, unfortunately. If the loot in there is worth it people will run it. I've gotten everything I need out of there, but will run it with guildies to get what they need. Even getting to 20th completions for a chance at a useful +3 tome doesn't intrigue me anymore.

[Eladiun]

It is always wise to deep six fundamentally flawed ideas as early in the design process as possible.

Otherwise you end up with the Pinto a car that could explode after a low speed fender bender because the bumper bolts would perforate the gas tank.

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...-jeans/1354204

[FlimsyFirewood]

Or will we just have to accept that sometimes we will complete with no raid chest?

This is an incorrectly phrased question. When you complete this raid, you get the minimum of one raid chest.

[Cyr]

This is an incorrectly phrased question. When you complete this raid, you get the minimum of one raid chest.

Quick question to anyone who has completed the raid...

Has anyone pulled any raid loot?

[Lifespawn]

This is an incorrectly phrased question. When you complete this raid, you get the minimum of one raid chest.

raid chest as in it can have raid loot or just a chest thats in the actual raid?

[Eladiun]

This is an incorrectly phrased question. When you complete this raid, you get the minimum of one raid chest.

Then maybe the take away from this, is to change the process? It always seems every patch cycle the Raid is the last thing released on Lam. The quest that would need the most testing and feedback is left for a time in the process where you have the least time to address issues?

Sounds like a process problem that needs to be tuned for future releases.

[Thrudh]

Hound doesn't count and Rit Sac is escort for maybe 5% of the total quest time.

#strawman on fire

Why doesn't Hound count? Our success depends on NPCs...

Maybe only 5%, but do you even notice him?

The reason we hated Coyle is because he died too easily.

If the NPC is tough and never dies, no one is bothered that it's an "escort" quest.

It can't be that impossible to get Ana to the end with decent health. If the devs can do it, I'm sure us vets can step up and figure it out.

Still, we probably should have a chance at raid loot if the raid is completed, with extra chests (and extra chances at raid loot) if we complete the optionals.

[Feather_of_Sun]

raid chest as in it can have raid loot or just a chest thats in the actual raid?

All of the chests in this raid can have raid loot in them.
Thus, your chances at getting raid loot sharply increase the more chests you earn.

Still, we probably should have a chance at raid loot if the raid is completed, with extra chests (and extra chances at raid loot) if we complete the optionals.

You do.

[Malshier]

raid chest as in it can have raid loot or just a chest thats in the actual raid?

Oooh good catch. Technically all the chests in the raid are raid chests.

[Cyr]

All of the chests in this raid can have raid loot in them.
Thus, your chances at getting raid loot sharply increase the more chests you earn.

So just really unlucky for those completing so far?

[Cauthey]

We all got a chuckle out of this picture, thank you. Something like this could've been implemented a couple weeks ago. Right now, don't have enough time for it, because of all the bugs/lag/stability fixes that need to be done.

Thanks for the candor. Glad I could offer you guys a chuckle. Cause I'm cracking my own poo poo up over here.

I suspected that this was the case. Ideas and feedback here are probably not getting responses because you guys are under the wire, and have no time to reinvent a quest mechanism.

Under the circumstances, I would just say do the best you can with the time you have left. Release it if it's uber painful, with the promise to come back and revisit some of the quest mechanisms that are causing player pains. There is a lot of harsh in this thread, but I think the players would be willing to forgive/forget.

[Thrudh]

about 16 hours.

I spent 4 hours in Madstone Crater the night it opened. 16 hours in a brand new raid that is still in BETA and that has known bugs (that they are working on) doesn't seem very long to me.

Can I quote you in 6 months saying that you decided to never run this raid ater 16 hours of testing in BETA? I'll be curious what your /quest completions says at that point.

[Grosbeak07]

So just really unlucky for those completing so far?

More likely they are holding them out until the last second.

Maybe with this next update we'll start to see the loot, but until now... I don't think its in.

[Thrudh]

That's the problem with escort missions. If the NPC is tough enough to not be annoying, he might as well not even be there. If the NPC is actually in some real danger, then you do run the risk (in this case at least) of coming out of the raid with no loot. So which is it here? NPC so uber that you might as well remove her from the equation? Or will we just have to accept that sometimes we will complete with no raid chest?

I definitely agree that if we complete (and there's a 3-day timer), there should ALWAYS be a chance for raid loot.

Zero chance of raid loot after a completion is not acceptable.

[Thrudh]

This is an incorrectly phrased question. When you complete this raid, you get the minimum of one raid chest.

Well then we're all good.

[MrkGrismer]

All of the chests in this raid can have raid loot in them.
Thus, your chances at getting raid loot sharply increase the more chests you earn.

Ugh, can have, not do have.

Chances. More lottery.

[Cyr]

All of the chests in this raid can have raid loot in them.
Thus, your chances at getting raid loot sharply increase the more chests you earn.

How much of a delta in chance of pulling raid gear between completion and perfect completion (which I gather depends entirely upon the escort mechanic)?

[Krelar]

Ugh, can have, not do have.

Chances. More lottery.

So you want every chest to always give you a raid item?

[Eladiun]

If the NPC is tough and never dies, no one is bothered that it's an "escort" quest.

If the NPC gets lost, gets stuck, falls off etc... it's worse than one that just dies.

It's been over a year an Kobold AI in challenges is still awful. Blind faith get you no points...