Raid Feedback: Caught in the Web

[Gimpinator]

This is a screen shot of us before we even found the end fight, having killed all the monsters we came across along the way:



and..



For educational purposes, we learn from these images that Conquest is between 471 and 479 kills. We were at 550 kills before reaching the end fight. Coincidentally, this was also our attempt at a ~45 minute speed run which apparently went as bad as it could get.



In the above, some newb member of our group claimed to have "accidentally" activated an Orb when engaging in conversation with Ana. The result? A Minotaur spawning in a pillar that we couldn't destroy, rendering the optional objective impossible to complete. At this point, I believe the hand hadn't spawn.

Ana decided to walk off the edge along the way and get herself trapped at a spawn location. I was forced to jump off until I caught her before she could de-spawn. The hand spawned at this point if memory serves, but both variables were eliminated at about the same time.

[Gimpinator]

Flimsy already gave the info out.

Well, he gave you a hint.

• Extra chests for having completed the optional.
  Extra chests for the amount of remaining health Ana has upon completion.

I don't think you can complete this raid with Ana having remaining health. She basically has to be ready to get through the door as soon as it opens, which means she is taking MASSIVE AOE damage just like the rest of the party.

[protokon]

Just don't forget the uber weapons and +5 tomes flimsy, and we will run it no matter what it is

Even if there were +10 tomes dropping from this raid, I wouldn't run it again on live when it dropped.

I'll go back to farming shroud and TRing until something 'new' comes out.

[Eladiun]

Ana decided to walk off the edge along the way and get herself trapped at a spawn location. I was forced to jump off until I caught her before she could de-spawn. The hand spawned at this point if memory serves, but both variables were eliminated at about the same time.

This is what scares me the most. DDO's NPC AI. The hidden factor in any escort mission. If the AI was beefed up to the equivalent of SWTOR we might have something. With the current AI I can only forecast doom

[Gimpinator]

This is what scares me the most. DDO's NPC AI. The hidden factor in any escort mission. If the AI was beefed up to the equivalent of SWTOR we might have something. With the current AI I can only forecast doom

When escorting her you have to be constantly watching the map to ensure she doesn't get hitched on a rock, which happens semi-frequently when she tries to follow a bending path to an elevated level. She will de-spawn if you're too far away.

This isn't too much of a problem if you're not already burnt out from a 12+ hour DDO session.. Don't judge me, you've been there!

[Cauthey]

Please forgive me for not having experience in the raid...

It would seem that the challenge is manipulating the VIP, and getting her escorted safely. Would it be possible to introduce a hireling-style hotbar for her that allows better control over where she goes, what she does, and what objects you'd have her break?

I am just trying to imagine talking to her, and wading through dialog to get her to operate, and what I'm imagining is a terrible nightmare. It wouldn't be half as bad if a player or two had a hotbar that was specific to leading the NPC through to the objective.

That was my impression and recommendation from closed beta ... haven't run the new version.

A *lot* of objections go away if you give players at least the illusion of control.

Maybe people will sort out her AI patterns eventually, and people won't care anymore, but that's my take on it.

Is it too late to add an "Ana Control Stone," an "Ana Speaking Stone," or an "Ana Get Your Bum Over Here!" item that lands in inventory when the first player speaks with her?

Click on it, and it opens a sub-menu of options (all hotbar-able, I'm thinking like Resist Energy here) for interactions with Ana. Heck, you could do it up and make the converstation bubbles that appear over the player's head like the conversation text that appears when one reads the lecturn thing aloud in Caverns of Korromar. (I saw this recently - text appeared over top of my characters head, as it often does above NPCs.)

Something a little like this:



Would this not be the solution to our NPC control woes?

[protokon]

This is what scares me the most. DDO's NPC AI. The hidden factor in any escort mission. If the AI was beefed up to the equivalent of SWTOR we might have something. With the current AI I can only forecast doom

I spent 3 hours in there myself with the same group of people...and yes, her AI is terrible. she randomly walks off the edge as if she's aggroed to something on the other side of the map.

[Malshier]

Is it too late to add an "Ana Control Stone," an "Ana Speaking Stone," or an "Ana Get Your Bum Over Here!" item that lands in inventory when the first player speaks with her?

Click on it, and it opens a sub-menu of options (all hotbar-able, I'm thinking like Resist Energy here) for interactions with Ana. Heck, you could do it up and make the converstation bubbles that appear over the player's head like the conversation text that appears when one reads the lecturn thing aloud in Caverns of Korromar. (I saw this recently - text appeared over top of my characters head, as it often does above NPCs.)

Something a little like this:



Would this not be the solution to our NPC control woes?

eat a cobra

[Gimpinator]

I spent 3 hours in there myself with the same group of people...and yes, her AI is terrible. she randomly walks off the edge as if she's aggroed to something on the other side of the map.

Which reminds me, if there are monsters near, she basically treats you as a rapist when you try to talk and just runs the opposite direction. It's incredibly frustrating and probably the biggest issue since the rate of frequency is so high. The last thing you want when dungeon crawling this raid is to draw more mobs near a Priestess.

[danotmano1998]

Something a little like this:



Would this not be the solution to our NPC control woes?

Yikes! I can't imagine clicking options 1 or 2 under ANY circumstances.

[Cauthey]

Yikes! I can't imagine clicking options 1 or 2 under ANY circumstances.

With a tremendous ignorance for the raid as it is, I had to go with filler material. My mind wandered to Beavis and Butthead, and Honey Badger.

Nontheless, you all get the idea. This would be THE WAY to get Coyle and Ana to do what we need them to do in order to succeed.

[SableShadow]

Nontheless, you all get the idea. This would be THE WAY to get Coyle and Ana to do what we need them to do in order to succeed.

Use pet tricks?

"Ana, play dead!"
"Ana, run to meh!"
"Ana, do that artifact!"

Something a little like this:



Would this not be the solution to our NPC control woes?

Tears.

You, sir, haz a geniusesess!

Yikes! I can't imagine clicking options 1 or 2 under ANY circumstances.

Those two are existing functionality.

[MrkGrismer]

Is it too late to add an "Ana Control Stone," an "Ana Speaking Stone," or an "Ana Get Your Bum Over Here!" item that lands in inventory when the first player speaks with her?

Click on it, and it opens a sub-menu of options (all hotbar-able, I'm thinking like Resist Energy here) for interactions with Ana. Heck, you could do it up and make the converstation bubbles that appear over the player's head like the conversation text that appears when one reads the lecturn thing aloud in Caverns of Korromar. (I saw this recently - text appeared over top of my characters head, as it often does above NPCs.)

Something a little like this:



Would this not be the solution to our NPC control woes?

I love this idea (Approve (e.g. Well Said, Informative, Positive Contribution)). I would also love for such a thing to be added to regular hirelings, especially if it allowed access to their full spell list (and especially resist energy).

[FlimsyFirewood]

At full health, with the entire raid dead, Ana can tank the whole instance, Lolth beams and traps and all, for ten minutes all by herself.

If you see any spots where her AI is having issues (stuck? unresponsive? leashing? despawning?! wait, what? how?) please submit bug reports with /locs or post them in this thread, although bug reports are better. Saves me time from putting them into the system myself. The /locs are crucial.

[Malshier]

At full health, with the entire raid dead, Ana can tank the whole instance, Lolth beams and traps and all, for ten minutes all by herself.

But with all party members at -10 or less health, her raid loot is gonna suck.

[protokon]

At full health, with the entire raid dead, Ana can tank the whole instance, Lolth beams and traps and all, for ten minutes all by herself.

If you see any spots where her AI is having issues (stuck? unresponsive? leashing? despawning?! wait, what? how?) please submit bug reports with /locs or post them in this thread, although bug reports are better. Saves me time from putting them into the system myself. The /locs are crucial.

So let me get this straight...

groups are supposed to crawl through this mess of a raid, and somehow keep ana from taking ANY aoe damage (which isn't going to happen no matter how coordinated the group is), and after 45 mins of trekking just give up and start over if her health is too low...

zero fun factor in this raid, period. I am happy I went through to enjoy the nice scenery and pretty graphics twice - but I will not be stepping back into this raid on llama or when it reaches live. no matter what kind of loot is put into it.

The game is supposed to be fun. escorting a braindead NPC is no fun - no matter how much you "patch" her to make her less braindead.

[Cyr]

At full health, with the entire raid dead, Ana can tank the whole instance, Lolth beams and traps and all, for ten minutes all by herself.

She could autocomplete the raid while everyone piked and I still would not think it was a good raid idea if you got no raid loot at the end of the day.

[protokon]

She could autocomplete the raid while everyone piked and I still would not think it was a good raid idea if you got no raid loot at the end of the day.

the fact that you can complete without receiving loot because you failed some "subtle" objective is far worse than just having anna die when she runs out of HP. bleh.

[Spartywinz]

At full health, with the entire raid dead, Ana can tank the whole instance, Lolth beams and traps and all, for ten minutes all by herself.

If you see any spots where her AI is having issues (stuck? unresponsive? leashing? despawning?! wait, what? how?) please submit bug reports with /locs or post them in this thread, although bug reports are better. Saves me time from putting them into the system myself. The /locs are crucial.

I have screenshots with a bad stuck spot I did /loc on I will upload in a few hours from house PC.

[MrkGrismer]

the fact that you can complete without receiving loot because you failed some "subtle" objective is far worse than just having anna die when she runs out of HP. bleh.

She is a metephor for Raid Loot. She doesn't die, but the raid loot does.

Me no like