Hard to Kill --> Haunting

[Scraap]

There are other possibilities for the future as well. One of the recent ideas in the pit is that when we revamp the enhancements, have a few things that improve with your Haunt level. An ability that grants a bonus to Negative Energy Spell Power based on it, or that consumes souls for some effect? That's got to go into the Pale Master tree.

Actually, followup for the "so how does that help folks vs deathward if they're a PM vs Sorc":

Haunt level*2 applied as per Augment summoning feat, only to created undead, SLAed, or charmed undead.

+16-20 to all stats over and above augment+the destiny one might make em last long enough to survive a room. (and they don't right now. As absurd as +8 total stacking HP and fort not being enough, they still die horribly.)

Simple enough to throw in before We have to wait half a year?

[Faent]

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please!!!

Don't nerf heroic levels. Just don't.

Otherwise, this new proposal is actually WORSE than the last one.

Yes it is. It's far worse, as it stands. I just caught up to Eladrin's response. They basically just got rid of Circle of Death and Wail. And then nerfed single-target into oblivion. (You basically get one single-target death spell every 15 seconds. The best casters will be able to add in an extra single target death spell every once in a while, and that's where it stops.) Doing anything else with death spells is going to cripple your ability to cast death spells. Eladrin just curb stomped wizards.

[Faent]

A stronger caster is going to be able to, as you put it, "play through" the debuff while a weaker caster might as well give up after a finger of death or two, since their DCs are going to be lower to start with.

The "play through the debuff" business was almost totally without merit.

[Postumus]

this is good stuff...

#2 makes sense - the more life I drain the more it takes out of me

So how does applying that to implosion make sense? Or destruction?

[danotmano1998]

What part about destroying a prestige classes main focus because they are using that focus sounds like a good idea?

Yes, Haunting is slightly better than Hard to Kill was. But ONLY if it's implemented in the EPIC hard/elite. Implemented across the board is not only a bad idea, it should be punishable by law.

I know EXACTLY what effect this will have on the heroic quests. Wizard? Reroll.

The alternatives are:

1. CC and AOE while you stand around.
2. Kite, which further ticks off everyone in the party because they have to chase you around.
3. Cast, wait for timer, continue on.
4. ??

Keep in mind too, that this effectively KILLS PM solo viability, unless they want to watch a movie between wails, or invis and skip all the mobs.

In a system where just ONE dc makes a big difference, you are proposing to take away 10 in one cast. For killing a handful of rats. In HEROIC levels.. Think about this.

[Malshier]

Yeah, too bad wizards have no other spells at all besides FoD, Circle of Death, PK, and Wail of Banshee.

Oh wait...

You're right I do. Because nothing screams NUKER like a wizard. That's such an efficient use of my spell points. Thank you for pointing that out, I must have missed it completely.

As I previously stated, with the changes to spell power a sup pot 6 item won't cut it anymore. I'll have to carry clickies and swap gear for the 2 minutes that I can't wail worth a ****.

[DeafeningWhisper]

So how does applying that to implosion make sense? Or destruction?

You break the hypocritical oath and it weights on your conscience?

[Carpone]

Haunt should apply +Universal Spell Power (that stacks with USP from items) per counter.

Also, there needs to be a hard cap to the number of times Haunt can stack.

And it needs to be implemented way before the mythical class enhancement revamp which has been pushed back yet again due to it's scope.

[kzeast]

So now I won't be able to solo ANY content on my PM???

Unless I wait 15 seconds between each kill. Or wail and wait a minute??

I think I actually prefer the other system as terrible as it is, because I can still at least enjoy playing my PM on Epic Normal. This ruins the entire game, both epic and heroic for my PM.

[Malshier]

I actually think I prefer Hard to Kill over this. At least that was only in the two hardest difficulties.

[Voldomar]

(6) Re-read Eladrin's last post they want to have it at all levels and difficulties for "consistency", you know the same reason you cut of a one legged man's remaining leg "consistency".

And I bet that they will left epic challenges ( and epic ward ) unchanged

[Impaqt]

-20 for 15 seconds, -18 for 15 seconds, -16 for 15 seconds, and so on.


I disagree - if you fail to kill something, then with a long cooldown you simply cannot try again. With a debuff, you can try again, and then you can choose whether or not you want to cast the spell on another target or wait for the debuff to drop. It's much more lenient than a lengthened cooldown.

There are other possibilities for the future as well. One of the recent ideas in the pit is that when we revamp the enhancements, have a few things that improve with your Haunt level. An ability that grants a bonus to Negative Energy Spell Power based on it, or that consumes souls for some effect? That's got to go into the Pale Master tree.

Wha??

So if I Wail 10 Mobs. ALL of my Spells with DC's are tanked for 2+ Minutes?

I think I'd rather have extended cooldowns...

[eris2323]

I actually think I prefer Hard to Kill over this. At least that was only in the two hardest difficulties.

I don't like choosing between two different colored piles of....

This needs to be rethought.

[Ganolyn]

So now I won't be able to solo ANY content on my PM???

Unless I wait 15 seconds between each kill. Or wail and wait a minute??

I think I actually prefer the other system as terrible as it is, because I can still at least enjoy playing my PM on Epic Normal. This ruins the entire game, both epic and heroic for my PM.

I don't see how it changes much at all. You just aggro everything, bring them to the end or a convienient place and kill them all at once there.

[danotmano1998]

Wha??

So if I Wail 10 Mobs. ALL of my Spells with DC's are tanked for 2+ Minutes?

I think I'd rather have extended cooldowns...

Pretty sure that just applies to necro spells. But no. Your necro DC's if you wailed 10 mobs would be -20. That's not tanked, thats obliterated entirely.

[Faent]

One of the recent ideas in the pit is that when we revamp the enhancements, have a few things that improve with your Haunt level. An ability that grants a bonus to Negative Energy Spell Power based on it, or that consumes souls for some effect? That's got to go into the Pale Master tree.

I hope you realize that Pale Master's aren't the only people who rely on Wail, Circle and Finger.

[Hokiewa]

Yes, Haunting is slightly better than Hard to Kill was. But ONLY if it's implemented in the EPIC hard/elite. Implemented across the board is not only a bad idea, it should be punishable by law.

away 10 in one cast. For killing a handful of rats. In HEROIC levels.. Think about this.

This is the part that makes zero sense from a business aspect. Yes the 5% want a harder challenge, but it's the 95% that keeps the lights on. They change a hated concept for epic hard/elite (which for my one wiz would certainly keep me from running them often) to a "new" concept that affects everything, all the while maintaining some premise that the switch was made to accomodate low - mid DCs etc.

It kills PM soloing in high level content on normal/epic normal whatever term is currently in use, which of course was a fundamental change first introduced with dungeon scaling. Some statement along the lines of "we want to try to cater to all playstyles". You know what, that worked. This is a 180 in the other direction. Personally, don't care much for myself, I don't play nearly enough now as I'd like to, but I would like for once, for once, the developers attempt to be consistent. This is not.

Also hilarious (to borrow a bore's phrase), how is a palemaster haunted by draining life? Really, that's just intellectually dishonest. Of course one can use the excuse (and really there is none) that the upcoming...cough...cough...enhancement pass could change things.....

I understand people are working really hard to put this expansion out and I'm not questioning the dedication involved. Cleary there are passionate folks at Turbine. I do give credit that the developers are listening. It really just seems like too much tinkering and over-thinking.

[Malshier]

I don't like choosing between two different colored piles of....

This needs to be rethought.

Well to be perfectly frank I think both ideas are the wrong way to "fix" the problem that they think exists.If someone tells me they are going to punch me, and my two choices are in the balls or the face, I'd choose the punch to the face. Both of them are AWFUL, but I'll take the one that sucks the least.

Because that's what these changes are doing: punching necro casters right in the balls.

[Scraap]

Y'know, there's another question: What happens to a sufficiently high turn undead in some of the new undead heavy quests, like that graveyard one, or going back to older content, the house D one?

[emtp]

Leave 1-19 alone and aleast epic causul alone. Hard to kill was much better it only messed with the top tier pplayer base that you are worried about while leaving content for casual players. Stop nerfing the low level to fix epic iedeas.