Is Epic Normal really supposed to be that easy?

[Shmuel]

Please fix the game by removing scaling. Soloing before scaling was never the most easy way to finish anything, or the most efficient. Soloing prior to scaling was more something to do just to say HAH! I soloed that ****. I know people complained about not being able to fill parties for groups, but removing any reason you have to fill a group for most content now doesn't make it any easier for those same people to fill parties. Its just a stupid concept any way you think about it. An ogres an ogre...what are they nice ogres now and decide to set weaker traps, hit me for less, and die more easily if I'm nice enough to go fight them alone instead of bringing some friends?

I have to agree here

[DarkForte]

The scaling on epic normal feels... too non-epic. I'd vote for removing it on epic levels (and epic levels alone: removal of scaling on heroic levels has too many implications to the many soloing TRs out there). Say whatever you will about epic == over 20, but everyone's gut feeling is, I believe, similar to mine: you have to be awesome to solo an EPIC quest.

[knockcocker]

The scaling on epic normal feels... too non-epic. I'd vote for removing it on epic levels (and epic levels alone: removal of scaling on heroic levels has too many implications to the many soloing TRs out there). Say whatever you will about epic == over 20, but everyone's gut feeling is, I believe, similar to mine: you have to be awesome to solo an EPIC quest.

No, the definition of Epic has changed regardless of how you feel about it.

[Scraap]

The scaling on epic normal feels... too non-epic. I'd vote for removing it on epic levels (and epic levels alone: removal of scaling on heroic levels has too many implications to the many soloing TRs out there). Say whatever you will about epic == over 20, but everyone's gut feeling is, I believe, similar to mine: you have to be awesome to solo an EPIC quest.

Eh, I'd go for lowering the scaling degree across the board, but I'm an ebil elitist, apparently.

[Claver]

Part of my fun comes from exploring with a little internal role play. Enemies are a distraction/obstacle to my journey and not the purpose of it. I don't want to be struggling not to die constantly while exploring. Enemies are not the only challenges in quest for a new or less experienced player. How to solve/complete the quest without someone else telling you or showing you everything is fun too.

Well said, thank you for adding another perspective. I solo quests for the same reasons - to smell the roses, read the npc dialogue and learn at my own pace.

I would move to another game if that option wasn't available.

I would lobby for a harder HARD

and a more Elite ELITE

but what you've written about normal makes sense to me.

[KyrzaBladedancer]

Well said, thank you for adding another perspective. I solo quests for the same reasons - to smell the roses, read the npc dialogue and learn at my own pace.

I would move to another game if that option wasn't available.

I would lobby for a harder HARD

and a more Elite ELITE

but what you've written about normal makes sense to me.

While not directly at you, Then what is casual for? why do we have it? To me, that is what Casual is for, learning the quest in an environment that is not dangerous. Normal is just that a Normal difficulty for a small to medium group looking for something easy but not walking in the park easy. As it stands now, Norm is, IMHO, walk in the park easy. The only reason I would ever die as it stands right now in a Normal Epic quest is if I were to go afk.

[MadFloyd]

While not directly at you, Then what is casual for? why do we have it? To me, that is what Casual is for, learning the quest in an environment that is not dangerous. Normal is just that a Normal difficulty for a small to medium group looking for something easy but not walking in the park easy. As it stands now, Norm is, IMHO, walk in the park easy. The only reason I would ever die as it stands right now in a Normal Epic quest is if I were to go afk.

Casual is a backup difficulty in case someone finds Normal too difficult.

From what I've played of the new content, I haven't found Normal to be a cakewalk by any stretch.

Elite is having its difficulty increased, btw.

[Eladiun]

Casual is a backup difficulty in case someone finds Normal too difficult.

From what I've played of the new content, I haven't found Normal to be a cakewalk by any stretch.

Elite is having its difficulty increased, btw.

Link your MYDDO.

[Cyr]

Link your MYDDO.

I agree and no joking.

Builds and gear are critically important to evaluate difficulty. Developers would gain better feedback with their difficulty queries and comments if they shared the same type of information that players do when providing detailed feedback.

This type of thing would help alot to improve the quality of feedback.

[DemonMage]

Elite is having its difficulty increased, btw.

Looking forward to the 300 damage melee attacks then I guess!

[Thrudh]

I agree and no joking.

Builds and gear are critically important to evaluate difficulty. Developers would gain better feedback with their difficulty queries and comments if they shared the same type of information that players do when providing detailed feedback.

This type of thing would help alot to improve the quality of feedback.

Developers really probably shouldn't even ask difficulty questions (except about elite) on these forums...

Most of us are way too good, and far too many of us have completely forgotten what it's like to be new.

There's not a single 1-19 quest that doesn't seem like a cakewalk to me on normal, but plenty of new players find them plenty challenging. Why should level 21-25 quests be any different (People have to stop thinking of them as "epic" quests... When you go into a level 21 quest on normal, it's not going to be much harder than that level 19 quest on normal.

[Cyr]

Developers really probably shouldn't even ask difficulty questions (except about elite) on these forums...

Most of us are way too good, and far too many of us have completely forgotten what it's like to be new.

There's not a single 1-19 quest that doesn't seem like a cakewalk to me on normal, but plenty of new players find them plenty challenging. Why should level 21-25 quests be any different (People have to stop thinking of them as "epic" quests... When you go into a level 21 quest on normal, it's not going to be much harder than that level 19 quest on normal.

Nonsense.

Plenty of players are capable of distinguishing between difficulty modes and seeing inconsistency between quests/raids in difficulty.

The more experienced the player the easier they can evaluate these sorts of things.

Dev asks for new quest "Hey guys can you give some feedback on the difficulty of this quest compared to similar level quests at same difficulty setting?" They would get some pretty solid feedback to that sort of query, particularly if it involved questions about different build types and party make ups.

[Eladiun]

Developers really probably shouldn't even ask difficulty questions (except about elite) on these forums...

Most of us are way too good, and far too many of us have completely forgotten what it's like to be new.

There's not a single 1-19 quest that doesn't seem like a cakewalk to me on normal, but plenty of new players find them plenty challenging. Why should level 21-25 quests be any different (People have to stop thinking of them as "epic" quests... When you go into a level 21 quest on normal, it's not going to be much harder than that level 19 quest on normal.

There in lies the point of us expecting the new content especially on the higher difficulties to provide a challenge. We have had 6 years to build characters and skill. now, with multiple past lives and gear we expect new to be hard.

That's how it works in other MMOs. It's called progression. In order to progress you must make milestones. Fresh of the boat should not be zooming to 20 and running Epic Elite.

I agree about 1-19 my TR partner and I can blitz just about any quest on Elite as a duo no sweat. That's multiple years of gear and TR's...old stuff should be easy. new stuff should be a challenge till you progress your gear; it's a simple cycle of challenge and reward. Keep me in my Skinner Box just don't bore me.

[marud]

Madfloyd asked to name a quest that is easier to do solo rather than with a party. Answer, weapons shipment. That quest since the revamp is way easier to do solo than with a party. That said I haven't gotten a real solid well balanced party to do the quest , I have however gotten 2 other people real solid to attempt it with me and have yet to complete it on elite the mobs just get too numerous and spread out to handle. Solo the numbers stay manageable. This is the only quest i can think of that way.

[Eladiun]

Madfloyd asked to name a quest that is easier to do solo rather than with a party. Answer, weapons shipment. That quest since the revamp is way easier to do solo than with a party. That said I haven't gotten a real solid well balanced party to do the quest , I have however gotten 2 other people real solid to attempt it with me and have yet to complete it on elite the mobs just get too numerous and spread out to handle. Solo the numbers stay manageable. This is the only quest i can think of that way.

Most of the Challenges are easier to solo or shortman than do in a party. Both of these example are entirely due to dungeon scaling.

[Chai]

Developers really probably shouldn't even ask difficulty questions (except about elite) on these forums...

Most of us are way too good, and far too many of us have completely forgotten what it's like to be new.

There's not a single 1-19 quest that doesn't seem like a cakewalk to me on normal, but plenty of new players find them plenty challenging. Why should level 21-25 quests be any different (People have to stop thinking of them as "epic" quests... When you go into a level 21 quest on normal, it's not going to be much harder than that level 19 quest on normal.

It all has to do with people being able to let go of past dev statements they interpreted as ironclad set in stone and unalterable - particularly the statement that epics will challenge "the best of the best" players.

Nowdays, the word epic simply means "over level 20" and doesnt have a difficulty attached to its definition, but some die hards arent buying it. The difficulty aspect is now defined by similar parameters we use to define what we call "heroic" quests - normal, hard, and elite.

The word "epic" no longer means you better have a minimal of Shroud and TOD gear on and have a clue for how to run the quest, so you understand which tactics work and which do not. Any beginner with a first life first time level 20+ toon will be able to run them - which is the same expectation currently in the level 1-20 game.

Some people are disappointed the game is losing that level of exclusivity it used to have at the high end. I say if people were more willing to teach and there were less 'know it or dont join" LFMs, there would be no reason to oversimplify the "normal" game. They made their own beds by contributing to the metagaming disparity which created a similar catch 22 situation as trying to take out a loan with no credit. So now the solution becomes oversimplification of the game for those who lack metagaming knowledge.

[marud]

Honestly in my opinion casual should be removed from the game. It is way too easy, if you are that incompetent at playing maybe you should take up crafting or add farming to the game so someone who has to play on casual to get something done has something to do. Should be normal hard and elite. Normal should be for a group of players to get the quest done and have them be competent. Hard should be for a group to have a slight increase in challenge an a greater chance for named items in relevant quests. Elite should be for hardcore people who have well built toons that need to work as a team to complete the quest with a even greater chance of name stuff dropping. I realize that is the intention of elite but it isn't the fact of elite. Most quests in the game can be solo'd on elite. I'm sorry, in my opinion if you go into a quest on elite solo it should be all you can do to get past the first fight. The very definition of elite should dictate the difficulty. Elite doesn't mean everyone who tries should be able to do it. Elite means few people can do something. How effective would the seals be if everyone could get in? There is a reason only a few make it they have the exceptional ability to be able to get something done no one else can

[Thrudh]

Nonsense.

Plenty of players are capable of distinguishing between difficulty modes and seeing inconsistency between quests/raids in difficulty.

The more experienced the player the easier they can evaluate these sorts of things.

I find the exact opposite to be true on these boards.

The majority of vets on these boards seem to have zero memory of how hard/easy the game was when they were new.

[Cyr]

I find the exact opposite to be true on these boards.

The majority of vets on these boards seem to have zero memory of how hard/easy the game was when they were new.

Read my post again. Take a few moments and notice that I was talking about inconsistencies between content of similar level and mode.

Your sidetrack about how all vets apparently have amnesia is really irrelevant to that. That would be an argument about the quality of absolute difficulty desired in content and the really dumb question a dev could ask "Hey guys is this quest too hard/easy?". Without qualifiers you just get general feedback about preference which is good to gather, BUT NOT ABOUT SPECIFIC INSTANCES instead about the game in general and modes in general.

Basically, it's not just is normal too easy? It is about is normal too easy for it's level compared to other comparable normal content. Experienced players by definition have more experience to evaluate that question compared to the new player who might have not even run comparable content more then once or even once.

[KyrzaBladedancer]

From what I've played of the new content...

There in lies, at least in my case, the issue. My comments have only ever been directed at old world Epic Normal, I have not played any of the new quests at any difficulty level, as I like to learn them when they are completed and scaled properly. It is quite possible that new content is properly scaling as you want, I think maybe you should see if old content is scaling properly as well.

And my comment about Bargain of Blood still stands. On Live I take anywhere from 2 to 10 points of damage on Heroic Elite, last time I checked on Lamma, I only took above 4 when shot by archers, with the average being 1s and 2s.