Proposal: Nerf warforged instead of Death Magic

[Pewf]

make them immune to Repair spells or reduce the effects of those spells while they are in an undead form.

Warforged cannot be repaired while in undead form.

[Phidius]

The really funny part is Druids are also almost all about killing stuff - but with healing thrown in - hmm. Maybe that's the new 'master class'. I might have to TR into one of those, and be unstoppable.

Until the cries begin that they are overpowered.

Oh, in the real world?

Yeah they're here to stay, and no, I don't think the devs will ever nerf the pay-to-win race

I still think they're overpowered as arcanes.

...
So, I'd like them to consider another option; if only to point out how MUCH it angers people when other people propose that core features of races, or classes, are removed.

I think the second part of that is gonna work out; as is obvious from the posters, almost ALL of you get angered when someone proposes removing a core feature of a class.

Your posts show clearly that you are just throwing a temper tantrum because someone took away your toy.

Just some friendly advice - this is not the way to make friends and influence people at Turbine. Just the opposite, rather.

...
The latest change makes pale master warforged "immune to rusting". Fine, if they are immune to resting because they are supposed to be undead, then make them immune to Repair spells or reduce the effects of those spells while they are in an undead form.

Otherwise, I dont agree with removing repair spells or anything like that.

Um, were you not aware that this has been the case since Pale Master was released? The "immune to Repair" part, not the "reduce the effects", unless you consider "absolutely no affect" to be a reduced effect...

[Drakos]

Really? I don't believe the devs EVER stated anywhere they had 'found a problem' with overpowered instant-death spells.

Could you provide a link to that, I hadn't thought they commented on it yet.

Sounds to me more like they took an 'easy-out', and it's a horrible 'easy-out'.

I think there's a misperception. Death magic isn't a problem - Pale masters still die in combat!

But everyone remembers those robots who live through everything, and can instant heal themselves - did you really feel needed then, either?

For what it's worth Eladrin has now stated the design purpose behind the change, in this thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...07#post4509707 and it would appear I was correct in my assumption.

[Drakos]

Signed. Nerf Warforged, not necromancy spells.

Wizards are the single most powerful class, because if they are a pale master, they can take ANY roll in a group. This is not the intent for the class; Wizards are supposed to be masters of arcane knowlege, NOT be tanks and healers and fill ENTIRE reaids with just wizards.

The latest change makes pale master warforged "immune to rusting". Fine, if they are immune to resting because they are supposed to be undead, then make them immune to Repair spells or reduce the effects of those spells while they are in an undead form.

Otherwise, I dont agree with removing repair spells or anything like that.

They currently get NO benefit from repair spells while in undead form. Their is/was a bug in beta that allowed it, but that is not WIA.

[Clatterfist]

In Dungeons and Dragons, divine casters have excellent instakill spells and this translates into DDO (Implosion is arguably the best instakill spell of all), and I'll also mention that in D&D, arcanes traditionally have several options for healing that aren't included in DDO. Vampiric Touch, Polymorph Self, and most significantly Limited Wish and Wish were all capable of helping to manage your hit points, and the last two could even heal other people.

[slimkj]

Another random nerf suggestion to offset the other nerfs! SIGH. I'm glad these kneejerk players aren't devs.

[eris2323]

My thoughts and beliefs on the matter are clear.

I believe warforged arcane that can heal themselves are way more overpowered than death magic in game.

Please stop calling me names on the forums. It hurts my tender feelings.

I've been considering this thread closed, since yesterday evening when I thanked all for participating.

I'd appreciate it if you 'oh-so-cool' forum posters would stop padding your message counts with insulting messages towards me. If you'd like to continue the conversation, that is fine, but there is really no call for all of you to just come to this thread to insult me and call me names.

[Karavek]

The OP is actually right I am afriad to say. Not totally but semi. Since WF are a pay for race they deserve perks, that is logical if they want to have sales. However should they be that potent for FTP classes like Wizard and Sorcerer? My DM gut tells me no.

Id say tone down the OPs suggestion and restrict repair magic to artificers, which seems logical to me.

On a side note its pretty much a fact that adding things like the warforged to standard settings is partly what brought about the quick death of 4E. All things Eberron are anathema to real D&D players which is also why we are going realms hopping here in DDO, facts are facts and 4E and Eberron were largely a huge failure in trying to dummy down D&D enough to appeal to the masses.

Even at RPGA events, DMs tend to run things based on the Multi Verse layed down by the greats rather then a one off home brewed POS like we got for DDOs core setting.

Dont get me wrong I loathe the Realms, Elminster, and Mystra with a passion that would scare most sane folks. But even that pales in comparison to my contempt for Eberron and all those who claim it better then classics like greyhawk and dragonlance.

Bring on Sigil and the Planescapes setting Turbine, you will not regret it.

[eris2323]

That would actually be semi-acceptable to me as well. Artificers would be a clearer choice for having the repair spells. They are more of a niche class, and it makes sense for them.

[Gkar]

On a side note its pretty much a fact that adding things like the warforged to standard settings is partly what brought about the quick death of 4E. All things Eberron are anathema to real D&D players which is also why we are going realms hopping here in DDO, facts are facts and 4E and Eberron were largely a huge failure in trying to dummy down D&D enough to appeal to the masses.

Eberron was a 3.5 setting.

WF is not what makes 4e a problem (and in fact the 4e WF don't even resemble real WF as we know them anymore)

[Ziindarax]

I think I've about had it with people constantly proposing nerfs to everyone's gameplay (suggested nerfs [largely by the mindset - elitists/masochists who've trivialized the game with their many, many past lives, and over-gearing] to Deathward/block, fear immunity removal, negative energy/energy drain immunity removal, protection from evil nerf, etcetera). Leave things as they are, and simply offer perks for other races/classes that compete with the offerings/combos of a warforged. Aasimars would be nice, so would tieflings and Thri-kreen. No. More. Nerfs!

Also, Death magic will be functional in Epic Hard/Elite (again), you just can't spam it, as you will be debuffed for a while. 15 seconds isn't nearly long enough to really be a debuff considering fear is ten times more annoying, and lasts more than 3x longer, and the Haunted debuff can expire rather quickly. All this means now is that you have to use your brain for 15 seconds (as far as I understand, unless there's plans to lengthen said duration) and find a way to deal with mobs without a death spell, which should be easy as those who get high enough to use death spells have lasted as long without them.

[voodoogroves]

The funny thing about this is I know VERY few WF AMs anymore. Most of the WF wizards I know are PMs. Truth.

(and they are rare enough because serious players who really are squeezing all the DC they can go with a fleshie PM race like human)

[Kennyburns78]

You know What's Even Funnier? Sorcerers and Favored Souls are the ones soloing raids yet we are seeing them nerfing wizards? Likes really, we all know this Barely nerfs Nuke/Tank Sorcs/Fvs Or even Wizard Tanks, We see them Nerfing the ones that Rely on DC's not DoT's, Hmmmm I wonder if that wizard over there is gonna have himself a fun time insta deathing horroth....... oh wait! he can't! he can only DoT it/Other dmg spells, Well why should I be playing a wizard then? hmmmm...... I can maybe hold monster something...... and cast haste with EXTEND!!! Omg I'm special cus I can fit in extend just like a sorc!!!!!!
Really, The only thing a Wizard has over a Sorc now is Mass hold DC higher by a max of what? 2-4? 2 Feats"Sorc might Squeeze in" 2 Arch Mage line? I can only do some things against.... Some trash mobs? Or... I could be a sorc, and get so much more DPS?

[Urjak]

tl dr the whole thread^^ ...

i proposed something similiar a long time ago, since IMO the reconstruct spell is simply too powerful for arcanes ... I would propose:

Move the reconstruct spell to artificer only (after all they are the ones responsible for the WF plague ;p), leave the repair spells as they are ... this would be similiar to the druid vs. clr/fvs healing ... arcanes should be a bit weaker than artis in healing wf ... but they should be able to

considering instakills ... no matter what change you make to reconstruct/repair ... it doesn't change much of the power of instakills ... haunting IMO addresses this issue very well, hard to kill on the other hand was much too much

[eris2323]

Haunting punishes excellence. I do not agree with the function at all.

Others also agree; and as more realize how bad punishing a 'character for being good at being the character' actually is, more will will realize what a bad idea it is.

The basic idea behind that thought is FLAWED.

If they don't change their mind, there is really no reason, whatsoever, to ever choose pale master again. The loss is not worth it. Spend the feats on other things, and go sorc for dps.

Being able to use my death spells once every 2 minutes, as current haunting would seem to indicate after using wail - is not fun.

Being a weakened sorceror for 2 minutes per encounter is not what being a wizard, or a pale master, is all about.