Power attack damage

[Jingwei]

Here's something that's not power attack damage, but related:

How much to hit advantage do you get from slotting a + to hit item (spectral gloves, raven's sight, etc)

Here's the relative advantage of +2 to hit

AC                     base to hit
     60   58   56   54   52   50   48   46   44   42   40   38
30    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -
35    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -
40    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    0.05 0    0.05
45    -    -    -    -    -    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0.05 0
50    -    -    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0
55    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0
60    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0
65    0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05
70    0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0
75    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0.05
80    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0
85    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0
90    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0.05
95    0.05 0    0    0    0    0.05 0    0    0    0    0.05 0

So, for example, if you had a base attack of 50, and were attacking an AC 45 target, putting on a +2 to hit item would make you hit 5% more often.

The '-' indicate that you were hitting at .95 already before you slotted the to hit item.

Here's the relative advantage of +4 to hit

AC                    to hit
     60   58   56   54   52   50   48   46   44   42   40   38
30    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -
35    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -
40    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    0.05 0.05 0.05
45    -    -    -    -    -    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0.05 0.05
50    -    -    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05
55    0.05 0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05
60    0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05
65    0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05
70    0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05
75    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0.05
80    0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05
85    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0
90    0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0.05
95    0.05 0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0.05 0    0    0    0.05 0.05

Note that even a +4 to hit is never worth more than 5% actual to hit.

And here's the table that makes half-orc barbarians very happy, the to hit penalty of -11 half-orc barbarian power attack

AC                to    hit
      60    58    56    54    52    50    48    46    44    42    40    38
30    -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -
35    -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -
40    -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -0.15 -0.15 -0.15
45    -     -     -     -     -     -0.1  -0.1  -0.15 -0.1  -0.15 -0.1  -0.15
50    -     -     -0.1  -0.1  -0.15 -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.15 -0.1  -0.1
55    -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1  -0.1
60    -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1
65    -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05
70    -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.1
75    -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05
80    -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.1  -0.05 -0.05
85    -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1
90    -0.05 -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05
95    -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.05 -0.1  -0.05 -0.05

So, at the base to hit that half-orc barbarians have, -11 to hit is worth between 5% and 10% actual miss chance.

[Khellendros13]

Sounds like you are reading the tables wrong. I never make any statements about how much damage you do, just whether you do more or less damage with power attack turned on.

So, for example, looking at the rogue numbers, if your base to hit is 55, and you are fighting a 0 fort monster with AC 70, your 1st swing will do more damage with power attack on. But if you are fighting a monster with 65 or 75 AC, you'll do less damage with power attack on.

Since these rounding spikes occur in relatively random places, you won't be able to compute them during the quest, and your to hit will change a lot anyway, as buff get cast or wear off, you get flanking, etc. So, the thing to do is to put your build into the spreadsheets, see if power attack is generally advantageous or not, and if there is a cut-off where it stops becoming advantageous. If there is one, turn power attack off.

So, using the rouge/monk example again, you'd want to turn power attack off around 45 if you were generally well buffed, or off around AC 40 if you were missing buffs while the FVS and barbarian don't want to turn off power attack, at least up to AC 75.

I appreciate the work on the tables, but can you explain this?

power attack advantage:

Code:
AC to hit
61 59 57 55 53 51 49 47 45 43
55 -0.7 -0.7 -0.98 -0.98 -0.98 -1.25 -1.25 4.13 -1.53 -1.53

65 -1.25 -1.25 4.13 -1.53 -1.53 3.85 -1.8 -1.8 -1.8 -2.08
70 4.13 -1.53 -1.53 3.85 -1.8 -1.8 -1.8 3.58 -2.08 -2.08
75 -1.53 3.85 -1.8 -1.8 3.58 3.58 -2.08 -2.08 3.3 -2.35

+51 to hit with PA on nets a 3.58 dmg boost, however +57 to hit loses damage.

Am I wrong in reading that a higher to hit = less DPS at certain points on the graph?

[Jingwei]

That' compared to the damage of a normal attack.

So, for example, if your hit rate looks look like:

  Normal  power attack
40    .70      .6
45    .65      .6
50    .65      .55

Then power attack gains compared to normal attack because the hit rate of the normal attack went down, but the hit rate of the power attack didn't. But then, at AC 50, power attack goes down, but normal attack doesn't so normal attack gets an advantage.

You never do more damage as the AC goes up, but because of rounding, the to hit numbers of normal attack and power attack are not in synch.

[Jingwei]

As a more in depth example, here are the to hit numbers for a base attack of 50, shown with -5, -8, and -11.

    50    -5    -8    -11
30  0.95  0.95  0.95  0.95
35  0.95  0.95  0.95  0.95
40  0.95  0.95  0.90  0.85
45  0.90  0.85  0.85  0.80
50  0.85  0.80  0.80  0.75
55  0.80  0.75  0.75  0.70
60  0.75  0.70  0.70  0.65
65  0.70  0.70  0.65  0.65
70  0.70  0.65  0.65  0.60
75  0.65  0.60  0.60  0.60

So, for example, -11 powerattack (WF/horc + barbarian + power attack) is considerably better than 'regular' power attack at AC 75 (remember starting with base attack 50, changing base attack numbers can cause these discontinuities to happen at different AC numbers) because it hits just as often as regular power attack, but you have +6 bonus power attack damage.

[BrightAsh]

1. anyone see any holes in my numbers or computations?

All I see is you with fancy sunglasses and a long black raincoat... You're the one Neo