Wow! There is not a single change in this update that I like, and here's why:

[Desdemonte]

I've been playing for 3 years, and I have 3 characters I play. I put a lot of hours in. As you can surmise, a lot of work has gone into these 3 characters. It's my natural desire and playstyle to want to kill everything quickly and efficiently, suffering little harm in return. I strive to make my characters the hero of the book- almost godlike in their abilities. I figure for the amount of time I put into them, they *should* be god-like!

First there's my TRd Ranger who I farmed a Chattering Ring for. Took me 11 months. It was worth it though- I could do lots of damage and get hit seldomly. If I got hit, I could self-heal pretty well. So this update has screwed my AC, made those months of Titan runs pointless, and now when I get hit I can't self-heal because the timer is now so long when in Combat Expertise. Notice I didn't even mention the huge nerf a while back to Tempest 3 attack speed and damage? Oops, just did....

Then there's my AC assassin who also farmed the Chattering Ring (I used to run back to back Titans twice a week for 11 months straight). Took a big hit with the Vorpal/Assassin 3 nerf. Became able to assassinate in Epics though, so had a little bit of balm on the wound. Now he's got no AC or ability to assassinate when it counts. His Epic Destiny is an insult.

Lastly, there's my caster. Just about to finish life #6 of 13. Made a plan a long time ago to go 3wiz/3fvs/3cleric/3sorc past lives and finish on a sorc. Been putting a lot of work into this one.... It really *should* be god-like with that kind of resume. Should be a veritable force of nature! What's it going to be now....? Hmmmmm. Nerf to Max/Empower. Nerf to Death Spells. Probable nerf to Torc/Conc Op coming down the pipe. etc etc. Wow, what a waste of time that one's been. Thanks Turbine.

I must obviously be playing a different game from everyone else. I haven't been in a group yet when the melees whine about instakills. I haven't been in a group yet where people have whined that I have AC and they don't. As far as I'm concerned for all the whiners out there, if you want to be god-like, invest the time in your character instead of posting about how x or y is so OP and how you feel redundant in parties and how these things all need to be nerffed.

And Devs- Instead of nerffing everything, why not figure out where other things may need to be buffed a bit, without affecting the things that work really well? Instead of making a broad sweeping change that has many many subtle repercussions and ripples that you can't or won't address, make tweaks to the spots that have deficiencies.

For example, wrt AC- halfling still gets 1AC, which is nothing really anymore. Chattering gives 3% dodge. This is nothing for an item that is so hard to get when the character's AC has been effectively halved.

For death spells, there have been some decent suggestions. I hope the "Hard to Kill" doesn't go through personally ( because I happen to like god-mode, if the time and effort has been put in), but I can see how the top end players want a challenge. I believe everyone should get some cake at the party. If the "Hard to Kill" goes through, hopefully Epic Hard won't be touched. Leave it for the Elite on Epic Elite. They are a very small portion of the player base. There is absolutely no reason to touch Epic Hard. If it goes through, hopefully there will be a way to keep rogues untouched, and even the single target death-spells.

Sure, I'm just one person, but I am in a large guild. It is my impression that most (if not all) the people I've talked to feel the same as I do. There are many forumites that appear to feel this way as well. Why does this game keep getting changed to help the mediocre at vast negative effects on those who have put many hours into their characters? Is everything just going to be Vanilla? Is it going to be like D3 where there are what, 4 classes and 5 buttons to mash?

[Snapdragoon]

i just how much of 3.5 slipped away and "standard mmo" got put in, i played because it was a 3.5 mmo, not this proposed garbage.

[Maxallu]

So DOOM!!M!M!!!!111? Looks like you should go ahead and uninstall. Perhaps some other game will entertain you.

[Zyerz]

Can I haz your stuff?

[Zammied]

So DOOM!!M!M!!!!111? Looks like you should go ahead and uninstall. Perhaps some other game will entertain you.

Err, I feel he has a bit of a point, and its not exactly nice to insult him by mocking him like that. A lot of people play this game because it is not like WoW and other MMOs recen changes have been shifted that way.

[Snapdragoon]

So DOOM!!M!M!!!!111? Looks like you should go ahead and uninstall. Perhaps some other game will entertain you.

even though your being an @$$

i find it a nice comfort the Skyrim Expansion Dawnguard comes out on nearly the same day

so yes another game will get my entertainment, and my money.

go suck a lemon - Snap

[Drwaz99]

So DOOM!!M!M!!!!111? Looks like you should go ahead and uninstall. Perhaps some other game will entertain you.

I'm going to be the third here. You lose. His point, while you may not agree with it, was well thought out and developed. Your post on the other hand, my 12 yr old cousin thinks it's immature and childish to post DOOM!!1!!.

[Maxallu]

"There is not a single change in this update that I like" Really? Really? There is not a single, intsy bintsy change that you approve of? I guess you dont like the Druid class, or the new quests, or the higherlevel cap, or the epic destinies and so on and so on, etcetera...


Sounds like somone just wants to parrot all the other doom threads without thinking about what they write. There are plenty of things to like about the expansion. This is a DOOM thread and it is silly.

[Ungood]

I posted this a while back when the "doom" Threads first started, thought it was fitting now.

[Drwaz99]

. There is plenty of things to like about the expansion. This is a DOOM thread and it is silly.

I'm going to mostly ignore the poor punctuation and composition in the rest of your post. But your calling this post silly while you not able/not willing to compose a complete sentence?

Try again.

And I'm sorry but DOOM posts are basically calling yourself a FANBOI so nobody else has to.

I also think FANBOI is just as immature as DOOM. I'm not biased. But that's a double whammy. It's ok if you don't understand that logic.

[Aalric]

atm I feel the same way. My main is a monk (used to be a tempest but I gave up on that after that got nerfed to death & TR'd him into a monk). He's lost ac in this update, has no PRR to speak of compared to a fighter, doesn't have enough dodge to make a difference. & I now wonder if his fighter TR's for the +1 to hit were a waste of time.

I think what really gets to me is the complete unwillingness of Turbine to communicate in any meaningful way. There's no dialogue - just this is the way it is, accept it (I'm talking about a 50+ page thread that the developers basicly ignored). What happened to the "Let's Talk" idea?

Very disapointed, very disallusioned. Probably will wait & see what happens when it goes live. But I have to admit, I'm seriously thinking off moving on. And from talks I've been having with my friends, I'm not the only one...

[Jay203]

here's the thing, if they REALLY did fix the memory leak problem, it'll be my favorite change as of now

[Faent]

The changes provide massive benefits to all the casual players who never farmed a piece of gear in their life. Since they're effectively being handed a million dollars they didn't earn, you can bet they'll show up to respond to a post like this with hoots of "leet speak" such as "DOOM!!M!M!!!!111?". They're winning, while everyone who actually played the game at a high level (a very small segment of the population) is watching the game they played be turned into WoW, watching all the rules they played by and built in accordance with be suddenly changed, all while receiving almost no compensation in return. You were basically playing DnD, and you were playing it well. Welcome to WoW. I feel your pain.

[Zammied]

The changes provide massive benefits to all the casual players who never farmed a piece of gear in their life. Since they're effectively being handed a million dollars they didn't earn, you can bet they'll show up to respond to a post like this with hoots of "leet speak" such as "DOOM!!M!M!!!!111?". They're winning, while everyone who actually played the game at a high level (a very small segment of the population) is watching the game they played be turned into WoW, watching all the rules they played by and built in accordance with be suddenly changed, all while receiving almost no compensation in return. You were basically playing DnD, and you were playing it well. Welcome to WoW.

People play this game (in my experiance) because they DONT WANT TO PLAY WOW! - why dont the devs understand that.

And you expressed my views clearly. Nice.

[Maxallu]

First response in red.

For your last sentence: I simply refuse to pay for stacks and stacks of mediocre games. That's why I haven't owed a console since Super Nintendo and I was a wee lad. The "Well, we are making changes, if you don't like it leave" strategy is not universally known as a sound business model. It's a weak excuse for people to try to attack others when they have no solid argument.

Turbine used the beta as an incentive to pre-purchase the Xpack,

I don't know our opinion, and I don't really care. My comments were directed to the OP. When someone posts a thread saying that they like absolutely nothing about the biggest expansion for a game that they 'put a lot of hours into' they are straight up trolling. This xpac is huge, and the op refuses to consider any of the good things that are coming and instead, insists on making yet another doom thread. Is everything perfect? no. To say there is nothing to like about the expansion is silly. If he really feels that way, perhaps it is time he uninstalls the game and finds something else for his entertainment.

What about that do you have a problem with?

[Vellrad]

So DOOM!!M!M!!!!111? Looks like you should go ahead and uninstall. Perhaps some other game will entertain you.

Ok.
Come my doomsayers brothers, lets all uninstall. Have fun with beign forced to purchase 5 hirelings for every single quest in game, because no one is going to play your personal hire.

[Faent]

The "Well, we are making changes, if you don't like it leave" strategy is not universally known as a sound business model. It's a weak excuse for people to try to attack others when they have no solid argument.

Actually, if the majority of the player base are casual folks who can't figure out how to play by roughly 3.5e rules, can't achieve top tier builds because they don't have the time or inclination to farm the appropriate gear, then Turbine's changes will benefit the majority of the player base in at least one way: it will make all the medicore toons running around much better. I'm sure the majority of the player base is going to like seeing themselves magically being missed a ton more, for example, without having to earn it.

So perhaps driving off all the folks who wanted to play something like 3.5e, or, you know, something like Dungeons and Dragons, is in fact a sound business decision. WoW makes a lot of money. Turbine has some significant reason right there to want to emulate them and fold their game over into a WoW clone "set in Eberron and the Forgotten Realms".

[Faent]

People play this game (in my experiance) because they DONT WANT TO PLAY WOW! - why dont the devs understand that. And you expressed my views clearly. Nice.

Some folks play this game because they don't want to play WoW. Many of the kids and many of the powergamers and many others besides couldn't care less what game they play as long as it's an MMO. Turbine appears to think it's a good time to make a play at abandoning their niche and moving into the broader market of MMO clones. It was probably picking up the Forgotten Realms rights that made them think this was a good time.

And while there are a lot of players who wouldn't ever recommend this game to anyone anymore over something like WoW, there may be a lot more WoW players who will find the game more enjoyable (and easier), and be attracted by the fact that it's set in the Forgotten Realms, even if that's about all it has to do with Dungeons and Dragons.

[Drwaz99]

I don't know our opinion, and I don't really care. My comments were directed to the OP. When someone posts a thread saying that they like absolutely nothing about the biggest expansion for a game that they 'put a lot of hours into' they are straight up trolling. This xpac is huge, and the op refuses to consider any of the good things that are coming and instead, insists on making yet another doom thread. Is everything perfect? no. To say there is nothing to like about the expansion is silly. If he really feels that way, perhaps it is time he uninstalls the game and finds something else for his entertainment.

What about that do you have a problem with?

I have a problem with you repeating the same thing over and over. Your just a bad as everyone your criticizing. Don't you see that?

Let's clear a few things up. 'Lots of hours into' does not equal superb quality. Look at the known issues list. It's MASSIVE. Even for a beta. The last two months have been basically been set aside for them to have us find what their temp testers haven't. (Don't believe me? Look at their help wanted ads off their corp website, judging by the number of open positions, they use a bunch of them). That's my opinion. I don't hate everything, but I certainly can't like everything. There are lots of things wrong.

If you really like the game, how about you encourage people to voice their opinions (especially those who do it civilized and maturely) to make the game better?

And you calling this person a troll? Take a look at your post history and count the number of time you have trolled those who don't agree with you.

[Drwaz99]

Actually, if the majority of the player base are casual folks who can't figure out how to play by roughly 3.5e rules, can't achieve top tier builds because they don't have the time or inclination to farm the appropriate gear, then Turbine's changes will benefit the majority of the player base in at least one way: it will make all the medicore toons running around much better. I'm sure the majority of the player base is going to like seeing themselves magically being missed a ton more, for example, without having to earn it.

So perhaps driving off all the folks who wanted to play something like 3.5e, or, you know, something like Dungeons and Dragons, is in fact a sound business decision. WoW makes a lot of money. Turbine has some significant reason right there to want to emulate them and fold their game over into a WoW clone "set in Eberron and the Forgotten Realms".

You make a valid point. I personally don't think any business wants to run people off, they would much rather 'convert' people so they stay a customer. In all honesty I have no idea what they are thinking. It's so convoluted now, I'm hesitant to speculate.