No Monk Love WTLolth

[Tolero]

Except when Tubrine folks do it, they get applauded. When players do it, they get infracted and neg repped.

Oooh don't worry, devs do too I've banned devs before.

[sebastianosmith]

I fail horribly at politics. And being nice, I'm afraid.
If anyone was offended by my previous post in this thread, I offer an apology, and it is sincere.

Sometimes it seems like you (not a specific you, but our players as a whole) don't realize that just like you, we love this game and care for it a great deal, and do put a lot of effort into fixing these kinds of bugs and issues.

We're putting a lot of love into this game, and feel it's coming out better for it.

I know, Feather, I know. Having one's code criticized is akin to the same leveled against one's child. Particularly when one has put in enough OT on it to have worked another year in the past four months. Its sting is even worse when one feels such criticism has come from less informed sources. But, you have to let go that raging pride. It'll burn you up quicker than you realize.

The Dev team does a fantastic job given the number of constraints placed upon them. Not one in a thousand members of the player base can truly appreciate the enormity of the code or data. Nor do most understand what it is to work on a project that size, with more legacy code than an accountancy app in COBOL. Frankly, I am constantly surprised everything works as well as it does.

So, thank you and the rest of the team for all your efforts. There are those of us who have been where you are and understand the pressure that entails. But seriously, think before letting your fatigued fingers do your talking. Some folks get all bent out of shape over the blunt truth.

Take care.

[Claransa]

I believe I see two frustrated human beings posting in this thread, both understandly so.

Happens to all of us from time to time.

[PopeJual]

[Lolth has consumed my soul]

from
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...handwraps+bugs


============================================

UPDATE: All bugs have been re-confirmed as of U13 post Patch 1 on live servers. I'll retest and update once Patch 2 lands on live.

============================================

Took the time to test out the current state of affairs with Handwrap bugs. I looked into detail at the Known issue stuff, and tested a few other bits and peices as well to make sure at-least the fixed stuff has stayed fixed.

U13 Patch 1 1. On Known Issue List: Equipped, Cannith Crafted Holy Handwraps 2D6 damage on hit effect does not stack with ToD Ring Holy Burst 2D6 damage on hit effect.
- Additional Burst effect on Critical Hit of Holy Burst still works however.
- Re-equipping ToD Ring has no effect and does not circumvent bug
- Below bug suggests Cannith crafted Holy on handwraps is possibly over-writing ToD Ring Holy Burst 2D6 damage effect

U13 Patch 1 2. Additional Bug: The 2D6 Holy Damage effect does not immediately apply after equipping non-Holy Cannith crafted handwraps, after wearing Cannith crafted Holy Handwraps and a Holy Burst crafted ToD Ring simultaneously.
- Test was done swapping from Cannith crafted +5 Holy Handwraps to Cannith crafted +5 Metalline Handwraps of Greater Evil Outsider Bane
- Additional Burst effect of Holy Burst still works as it did in previous bug
- Good DR breaking does still apply from ToD Holy Burst Ring, effect noted on character sheet and in floating main hand damage
- Equip normal loot-gen handwraps then non-Holy crafted handwraps fixes bug as a work-around
- Unequip/Re-equip ToD Ring with Holy Burst fixes bug as a work around

U13 Patch 1 3. Additional Bug: Equipped, Cannith Crafted Shock Handwraps does not stack with ToD Ring Shocking Burst 1D6 damage on hit effect.
- Exhibits same behaviour as for the missing 2D6 Holy Damage in above bug
- Additional Burst effect on Critical Hit of Shocking Burst still works
- Re-equipping ToD Ring has no effect and does not circumvent bug
- Below bug suggests Cannith crafted Shock on handwraps is possibly over-writing ToD Ring Holy Burst 2D6 damage effect

U13 Patch 1 4. Additional Bug: The 1D6 Shock Damage effect does not immediately apply after equipping non-Shock Cannith crafted handwraps, after wearing Cannith crafted Shock Handwraps and a Shocking Burst crafted ToD Ring simultaneously.
- Test was done swapping from Cannith crafted +0 Shock Handwraps to Cannith crafted +5 Anarchic Burst Handwraps of Pure Good
- Additional Burst effect of Shocking Burst still works as it did in previous bug
- Equipping normal loot-gen handwraps then non-Shock crafted handwraps fixes bug as a work-around
- Unequip/Re-equip ToD Ring with Shocking Burst fixes bug as a work around

Additional Related Bug - Cannith Crafted Arrows - These exhibit the same behaviour as the bug for Crafted Handwraps and ToD Rings. See post HERE for further explanation.

U13 Patch 1 5. Additional Bug: Crafted HandWraps do not display effect icons on character inspection window

U13 Patch 1 6. On the Known Issue List: The bonus damage associated with the Greater Bane benefit is not applying on crafted handwraps.
- Tested with Cannith Crafted Greater Evil Outsider Bane handwraps in Amrath Explorer vs. Tieflings, Hellhounds and Bearded Devils
- The bonus To Hit effect is working as intended, supplying the additional modifier
- 3D6 Greater Bane damage effect is working as normal for observed damage ranges

============================================

I also went over a few old bugs that were present and double checked they were still fixed. Here's the list

U13 Patch 1 1. Enhancement Bonus - Working
Enhancement bonus is applying to both To Hit and to Damage. It is also tested stacking with Feat, Morale, Competence and Character Enhancement bonuses.

U13 Patch 1 2. Ghost Touch - Working
Ghost Touch is working on both Random Loot handwraps and Cannith Crafted handwraps.

U13 Patch 1 3. Metalline - Working
Metalline is working on Cannith Crafted handwraps to bypass on known material DR test subjects.

U13 Patch 1 4. Stunning Mods - Working
Stunning shards can be applied to Handwraps during crafting and apply there modifier to the Stunning Fist

============================================

To Confirm

Community reported bugs that I've not had chance to personally test yet. Feel free to provide additional information.

1. Destruction / Improved Destruction - To be fully tested after evaluation in PvP pit and with random-loot gen/named items with similar effects.

============================================

I'll be cross posting the additional bugs into the Lamannia Bug forum shortly, as well submitting a formal bug reports.

If anyone wants anything else testing, please post in this thread and I'll see what I can do.

As a died-in-the-wool Monk player, the ToD Ring bugs are really, really irritating and really are no fun

So please, Players & Devs alike, show your support for getting these bugs fixed

[Feather_of_Sun]

Stuff!

Thanks PopeJual,
I've looked into this, and it's all one bug.
(except for things like Dragontouched Smiting/Destruction, which was a design choice to not work with unarmed)
Basically: Any damage effect added to your attack that is identical to a current damage effect already on a handwrap won't stack. And yes, things like Holy and Holy Burst are adding the same damage effect on hit, it's just that Holy Burst also has an extra damage effect that occurs on critical.
I spoke with one of our engineers about how it is functioning currently, and why these effects stack on other weapons currently are unable to on handwraps.
We're looking into a fix for this stacking problem in Update 15.

[whereispowderedsilve]

Thanks PopeJual,
I've looked into this, and it's all one bug.
(except for things like Dragontouched Smiting/Destruction, which was a design choice to not work with unarmed)
Basically: Any damage effect added to your attack that is identical to a current damage effect already on a handwrap won't stack. And yes, things like Holy and Holy Burst are adding the same damage effect on hit, it's just that Holy Burst also has an extra damage effect that occurs on critical.
I spoke with one of our engineers about how it is functioning currently, and why these effects stack on other weapons currently are unable to on handwraps.
We're looking into a fix for this stacking problem in Update 15.

And there was much rejoicing!!!11 :P! ! Yaaaay! xD! :P! ! Lolz!

Thanks Feather! Keep up the great work!

[BruceTheHoon]

Thanks PopeJual,
I've looked into this, and it's all one bug.
(except for things like Dragontouched Smiting/Destruction, which was a design choice to not work with unarmed)
Basically: Any damage effect added to your attack that is identical to a current damage effect already on a handwrap won't stack. And yes, things like Holy and Holy Burst are adding the same damage effect on hit, it's just that Holy Burst also has an extra damage effect that occurs on critical.
I spoke with one of our engineers about how it is functioning currently, and why these effects stack on other weapons currently are unable to on handwraps.
We're looking into a fix for this stacking problem in Update 15.

I'm bookmarking this post, because that's some solid gold monk-rage stopper.

[Kakashi67]

Oooh don't worry, devs do too I've banned devs before.

I think you should get a warning from Cordovan for publicly discussing moderation issues.

[Cyr]

And there was much rejoicing!!!11 :P! ! Yaaaay! xD! :P! ! Lolz!

Thanks Feather! Keep up the great work!

I swear there was a similar post about the xpack also... just saying jumping for joy might be a little premature.

[QuantumFX]

[Lolth has consumed my soul]

Something to keep in mind:
99% of your posts from the closed beta are gone. You should re-outline all the changes you made to the random loot so players have a better idea what to expect and what to look for. (ex. Last I heard, newly generated handwraps are supposed to be like cannith crafted wraps and not the weird trinket that occupies a weapon slot shenanigans.) It would make an interesting focused discussion.

[SableShadow]

I think you should get a warning from Cordovan for publicly discussing moderation issues.

She would then ban him.

Mess with the spider queen, get teh fangz!

[Malshier]

Thanks PopeJual,
I've looked into this, and it's all one bug.
(except for things like Dragontouched Smiting/Destruction, which was a design choice to not work with unarmed)
Basically: Any damage effect added to your attack that is identical to a current damage effect already on a handwrap won't stack. And yes, things like Holy and Holy Burst are adding the same damage effect on hit, it's just that Holy Burst also has an extra damage effect that occurs on critical.
I spoke with one of our engineers about how it is functioning currently, and why these effects stack on other weapons currently are unable to on handwraps.
We're looking into a fix for this stacking problem in Update 15.

This is great, however I'm curious why it took this long.
The time you were pointed to that thread was 10:36am EDT. Your response came back at 2:02 PM EDT.

Less than 4 hours.

That thread was posted almost 4 months ago. Why the disconnect?

[Scraap]

(except for things like Dragontouched Smiting/Destruction, which was a design choice to not work with unarmed)

Er... might wanna doublecheck the random lootgen then. I was pulling all sorts of destruction robes the other day.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Ravager Ring DoT does not work with Handwraps.

[kyostal]

Oooh don't worry, devs do too I've banned devs before.

Im actually Happy with what Feather_Of_Sun wrote... enough sugar coating things.. if people are going to whine about bugs and the such, they better be able to reproduce them and tell exactly what they did when it took place.. Ive always liked FoS due to the lack of... politics as it was put earlier.. i would love to see more of this from the devs.. maybe then people would stop complaining about every little detail and get on with the game.. ^-^ thats my 2cents

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Im actually Happy with what Feather_Of_Sun wrote... enough sugar coating things.. if people are going to whine about bugs and the such, they better be able to reproduce them and tell exactly what they did when it took place.. Ive always liked FoS due to the lack of... politics as it was put earlier.. i would love to see more of this from the devs.. maybe then people would stop complaining about every little detail and get on with the game.. ^-^ thats my 2cents

I am not whining. Get your language and facts straight. Having an issue with a product you paid for is not whining. I would use much harsher stronger language if you were to speak to me in person this way. Check yourself. We paid for this product.

We...

Paid...


For...

This...

Product..


Do you get it now?

Thanks for the frank reply FOS. Your consideration in this matter is appreciated.

[Aalric]

I sort of wonder about another thing - yes, a lot of our handwraps are borked, but I've gotten used to it (had to, really)

Now, with the changes to ac, monks will have less ac, hardly any PRR and not enough dodge to make up for it. Most armored classes will be better, or at least not so much worse, with the changes but we will find it much harder to survive. Monks, who used to have great survivability without giving up much dps, have gone to the least survivability of all melee classes - even worse than rangers.

I'd say we're now glass cannons, but although we now qualify as glass, I'm not sure we qualify as cannons.

I just can't understand the point of making a new dmg mechanism for handwraps & making an epic destiny while at the same time making us the least survivable frontline melee.

[redspecter23]

I sort of wonder about another thing - yes, a lot of our handwraps are borked, but I've gotten used to it (had to, really)

Now, with the changes to ac, monks will have less ac, hardly any PRR and not enough dodge to make up for it. Most armored classes will be better, or at least not so much worse, with the changes but we will find it much harder to survive. Monks, who used to have great survivability without giving up much dps, have gone to the least survivability of all melee classes - even worse than rangers.

I'd say we're now glass cannons, but although we now qualify as glass, I'm not sure we qualify as cannons.

I just can't understand the point of making a new dmg mechanism for handwraps & making an epic destiny while at the same time making us the least survivable frontline melee.

Well put. I've always imagined a sort of see-saw balance between melee dps and melee defense. The greater your dps (barbarian, kensai, rogue), the lower your defenses should be by nature of class enhancements and gear breakdown. The lowest dps (defenders) should have ridiculous defense in the form of ac and DR. They've actually done a fairly good job of this. Improved uncanny dodge gives rogues and barbarian bursts of great defense, but without that they shouldn't be much better off defensively than the monks and rangers. To me, the monks and rangers should be getting more static defenses to make up for the burst defenses from rogues and barbarians. We aren't quite there yet.

As an extension of that, those with the heaviest armor should have the highest DR but lowest dodge and those with no armor should have the means to reach the highest dodge if built properly. Due to the mechanics and the "soft cap" on dodge right now, monks aren't really benefiting from their lack of armor. Fully armored or medium armored melee are able to reach this soft cap anyway. It's this part here that really hasn't come to be balanced yet. The devs have stated they may not quite be done with monks yet, so I really hope they get back to this. I find it very "unflavorful" that a monks best defensive stance is one that is DR based (earth). It should be an option, but I feel a high dodge stance option should be there as well for a class that wears no armor.

[rakhtal]

Thanks PopeJual,
I've looked into this, and it's all one bug.
(except for things like Dragontouched Smiting/Destruction, which was a design choice to not work with unarmed)

Can you at least tell us why it was decided that dragontouched destruction should not work with unarmed?
With the new ac system hitting stuff will become even harder* and destruction will now give double the benefit of epic spectral gloves or epic raven sight set. I really don't see giving monks destruction on dragontouched as overpowered in any way.

(and few people agree with me if you look at the link in my sig)

* - unless you also change monster ac values, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere

[Jay203]

I fail horribly at politics. And being nice, I'm afraid.
If anyone was offended by my previous post in this thread, I offer an apology, and it is sincere.

Sometimes it seems like you (not a specific you, but our players as a whole) don't realize that just like you, we love this game and care for it a great deal, and do put a lot of effort into fixing these kinds of bugs and issues.

We're putting a lot of love into this game, and feel it's coming out better for it.

nah, honestly, i think it's the people with the lame attitude of "I'm a customer (of sort) and you should treat me like God" that needs the toning down
nothing wrong with a little witty response
if you can't take a joke, get the f* off the internet