Cleric, time to retire?

[voodoogroves]

So far that's the plan if this "Hard to Kill" thing goes live...

I didn't like the changes I saw in Beta, but I was willing to roll with them:

Need to fit devotion? Okay I see the logic, I'll drop str and stop meleeing in between casts with my trusty fully upgraded Dreamspitter and get a heal stick, no biggie.

BB is low damage Max/Emp are not as strong? Fine, I'll respec into insta-kills, not like they are plentiful and it gives me something fun to do in between heals without over using my SP bar.

Hard to Kill comes along... Now what? Forced to be a battle-cleric or healbot? Low damage wanna be offensive caster? None of those looks fun to play to me.

If I talk in extremes it's because I don't see a way to play my evoker, at all, under this new system.

The instakills should work ok while you grind out the TRs.

[DeafeningWhisper]

above.

The way the damage on spell is now calculated makes my BB hit for around 60% from what they do on live, not asking for something I never had just noticing what I lost.

So I HAVE to run LoB to play DDO the way I want? I didn't before...

I plan on running hard/elite on my toons, maybe not all the time but I don't feel like been a weight on the party as a healbot in higher difficulties is that wrong?

You missed quite a bit yourself buddy.

[rjbutchko]

Too much pessimism.

Hard to Kill is not as bad as it sounds... it only applies to the hardest quests on the hardest levels... so for most of the time you can still destruct things... and even in some heroic quests the monsters cast Death Ward on one another....

Blade Barrier kiting even works in Beta...
And even if the Artificer can make a bigger blade barrier... my cleric blade barrier still does damage...
And if the artificer has to run the monsters through 3 times, and I do 5 times... they are still dead!

The problem with blade barrier kiting is that if mobs are held or dancing, blade barriers are worthless.

If blade barriers worked like ANY OTHER aoe then a mob standing in a blade barrier would continue taking damage and you could BB held mobs but, alas, this is not to be. (In fact, I once suggested that BBs be changed like this and got a bunch of /not signed. Maybe now people will understand the point I was trying to make then)

[RavenStormclaw]

I would like to interject a thought here. While I tend to agree with most of the posters in this thread about the supposed nerf. I would postulate something. We may not be seeing the complete picture so to speak. After all, intially, the new enhancement system was supposed to go live with this expansion pack. It has been delayed; however, I remember reading a dev post that it would have 4 trees.. one racial and three representing the presitge lines. Well currently clerics and favored souls only have 1 line. I would postulate that the prestige lines (which have to have been mapped out already) may compensate for some of these supposed nerfs.

Having said that... if such a postulate is true than one of two things should have or needs to happen. Either these changes be delayed until such a time as the enhancement system can be rolled out or a dev acknowledge that this is indeed ture. If so such knowledge would at least alleviate some of the concerns even if it wouldn't solve the short term problems.

The above of course is a guess but I thought I would at least put it out there.

[Thrudh]

Need to fit devotion? Okay I see the logic, I'll drop str and stop meleeing in between casts with my trusty fully upgraded Dreamspitter and get a heal stick, no biggie.

There are plenty of wearable devotion items. All your arguments fall flat when you keep harping on how you can't melee and heal at the same time.

You're WRONG there. So stop making that an argument. It makes all your other arguments (which are stronger) seem much weaker because your readers discount your opinions as "exaggerated nerd-rage"

[DeafeningWhisper]

I would like to interject a thought here. While I tend to agree with most of the posters in this thread about the supposed nerf. I would postulate something. We may not be seeing the complete picture so to speak. After all, intially, the new enhancement system was supposed to go live with this expansion pack. It has been delayed; however, I remember reading a dev post that it would have 4 trees.. one racial and three representing the presitge lines. Well currently clerics and favored souls only have 1 line. I would postulate that the prestige lines (which have to have been mapped out already) may compensate for some of these supposed nerfs.

Having said that... if such a postulate is true than one of two things should have or needs to happen. Either these changes be delayed until such a time as the enhancement system can be rolled out or a dev acknowledge that this is indeed ture. If so such knowledge would at least alleviate some of the concerns even if it wouldn't solve the short term problems.

The above of course is a guess but I thought I would at least put it out there.

A dev posted something to the fact that Excorsist would be a caster prestige, of course without the aura/burst a cleric is no as good a healer as a FvS.

Thing is the enhancement pass is in November ( should I shelve my cleric until then?) at earliest and there is no way in the Nine Hells they are going to delay the release of MoTU.

[DeafeningWhisper]

There are plenty of wearable devotion items. All your arguments fall flat when you keep harping on how you can't melee and heal at the same time.

You're WRONG there. So stop making that an argument. It makes all your other arguments (which are stronger) seem much weaker because your readers discount your opinions as "exaggerated nerd-rage"

I don't mind to stop meleeing, if anything it frees stat points to get more turns, it's really the caster nerfs that bother me.

I just wanted to point why I opted to go full caster, I never really melee all that much to begin with and if you note I posted how battle-cleric wasn't that a fun way to play to me anyway.

I know how you feel on the item swap argument, I'm just adding that as the reason I chose to go full caster, not because I'm saying I can't fit a devotion item.

[Xaxx]

Umm, it appears you haven't copied a cleric or favored soul over to Lamannia yet, divine as of right now are NOT getting any of the new divine spells being introduced. so, unless you are druid, no storm of vengeance for you.

true true

but...

going back to pre mod 6 with the shroud *before f2p* when they listed spells that were comming into the game in their press tour interviews.. earthquake was one of em... the only class that could have earthquake at the time was ..... cleric, there was no fvs or druid

back in april of 2009 when we were previewing update 9 *that eventually was rolled in with vast and mysterious to become f2p* when they were previewing spells that would be added in gaming interviews.... storm of vengance was one of those... well there was no druid back then.... and there was no fvs originally slated for mod 9....

So... we finaly have the 2 spells were were supposed to have 3 and 4 years ago for at the very least clerics... I dont believe they have a whole lot of choice but to give those 2 spells if nothing else to atleast clerics, and when clerics get them, theres no reason fvs wont also.

So while I see your point, they told us were were getting those spells for classes that were in game long long ago, and then didnt make them because they couldnt get the tech right.. well.. the techs here.... time to hand em over to those of us who waited YEARS to be able to use spells we were to get long ago.

[MartinusWyllt]

What many people don't seem to realise is that ANY nerf to healers no matter how trivial it may seem to you = more people learning how to self-heal

More optimistic outcome in red.

[waterboytkd]

Thing is the enhancement pass is in November

Is this confirmed? I know they pushed it back from the xpack, but I was kinda holding out hope for it in the Aug update. I don't know if I could wait until Nov for the one thing I was excited for in the xpack...

[DeafeningWhisper]

Is this confirmed? I know they pushed it back from the xpack, but I was kinda holding out hope for it in the Aug update. I don't know if I could wait until Nov for the one thing I was excited for in the xpack...

Dev confirmed for U16 yes.

PS. Never got a confirmation on feat pre-reqs changes for prestiges either, they said they were looking into reducing them so may need to re-spec in November.

[Don1966]

Xaxx, i really want those new divine spells on my cleric, i even started 2 threads on the now closed beta forums asking if clerics/fvs would be able to get them, i'm also asked the question several times on lamannia when a dev was on doing Q&A sessions, no response. a few new divine spells were introduced with artis that divines didn't get, i have little hope the new divine spells being introduced with druid will be given to divines.

[Clatterfist]

While the nature of the game may have changed, the relative position of the cleric within it hasn't. If you wanted to be a caster with some offensive power but rejected sorcerer or wizard then you probably either wanted or have at least benefitted from the cleric's much larger hit die and better saving throws, and now you'll get more mileage out of their heavy armour, too. Clerical Blade Barriers were already inferior to Artificer Blade Barriers, and should still remain useful even if they don't operate as quickly, and while instakill spells may be down overall, they're not entirely useless and the cleric still has a fair selection of them compared to the softer / squishier arcanes who are impacted by the hard to kill rule in just the same way.

Yeah, some of these changes are going to make things more difficult, but most people are in pretty much the same boat.

You might want to consider the possibilities of the Druid if you do plan to "retire", though, as one of his traditional D&D playstyles is that "mixed" caster who has decent offensive spells as well as plenty of healing, and that might be a good fit for you.

[butcheredspirit]

When an enemy casts a spell we don't have access to, such as Blasphemy, I try to think -
'Well they just haven't got around to coding the level 7 alignment spells for player use"


Then we see spells enter the game that a player can use,
but they only give the spell to a specific class?

I can't see how it is justifiable to not give clerics/favored souls earthquake, storm of vengance, magic weapon, etc.
Insect plague looks like it could easily be added to the game.
(Rangers should get an animal companion too).

Arti's and druids have spells in common with existing classes and they were given them.
As seen with many spells like a druids deathward or heal, and arti's bladebarrier.

It needs to work both ways.
If a spell or ability is in the game, and it would normally be a part of the class, then just give it to them.

[Dalsheel]

nah heres what ya do

reroll clr or fvs to an 18/2 clr or fvs/fighter who is str/con based

pick up
toughness
weapon focus (your choice of 2h weapon)
power attack
crit
cleave
great cleave
all of these except toughness lead to...
Overwelming critical (for one of your two epic feats)

this would leave you with 4 extra feats yet (or two if you wished to go pure 20 clr or fvs) quick and max you know just for your blade barriers

next get to legendary dred ed.... Become a legendary dred.... Get your twists from well wherever you want, pick mele based and self serving ones only...

Grab yourself a big ole 2 hander * esos if ya got it*

congrats your a self healing mele with blade barriers.

Join groups, when they complain tell them to go to the boards and thank people who wanted caster nerfs, since they wanted rid of casters, and the devs decided to give in at all, you figured you'd join the train leaving the station and become a mele, so they have a self healing blade barrier throwing mele. Suggest to them that they may wish to pull out their pots or maybe stay near you and your aura *if your a clr* and go to the forums to discuss their opinion of recent changes.

I mean if every clr/fvs thats disatisfied with the way they're playing out the clr/fvs ed and the most recent changes did this they'd probably have to shut the forums down for a few days for the amount of people complaining, and i wouldnt want to be one of those posters who complains about casters, sticking your head out of your hideyhole while thats goin on will be lible to paint a big ole target on it for all the ticked off meles.

Personally i believe this is where my combat caster is going.

So to the op.. No more heal bot.. Now mele... No one gets to complain about your heal bot being less powerful, all you have to worry about is healing yourself.

To any who wish to complain and say thats greedy thats bs.... Sorry its not... Its simply where i see the game seems to be making divine casters head to be the most useful. People are welcome to continue down whatever path they wish, but this is the only path i'll considering going down with a divine in the future, and anyone who complains will get told where to stick their opinion.... In the next *casters are op nerf them now* thread that comes long.

+1

[stoerm]

I can't see how it is justifiable to not give clerics/favored souls earthquake, storm of vengance, magic weapon, etc.

Free class < Old paid class < New paid class

It's business.

[MeliCat]

So your answer is, "Stop complaining and be a melee healer instead of a caster healer"? Really?

I don't like being a melee healer. I like casting. I was hardly OP with it, given the limited instakill spells we have, but that plus BB was useful. And since I didn't see a ton of clerics complaining about their abilities before the nerfs, I don't believe hiding in fear to say something about it matters anyway.

I don't want to be just another flavor of melee on my cleric.

Yes I dont' like meleeing on my clerics. My clonks are caster builds :/ I like killing from a distance or CCing so that other people can kill stuff so I don't have to kill the stuff with too high fort saves and no place to kite them.

This is a big change for me. Having to create a weapon to actually hit stuff up close and personal from LoB. It's just not my style of playing a divine and I don't really want to. If I'm going to dps I would rather do so on a character that's seriously built for it like a fighter or a monk.

Suck it and see I guess.

[DeafeningWhisper]

When an enemy casts a spell we don't have access to, such as Blasphemy, I try to think -
'Well they just haven't got around to coding the level 7 alignment spells for player use"


Then we see spells enter the game that a player can use,
but they only give the spell to a specific class?

I can't see how it is justifiable to not give clerics/favored souls earthquake, storm of vengance, magic weapon, etc.
Insect plague looks like it could easily be added to the game.
(Rangers should get an animal companion too).

Arti's and druids have spells in common with existing classes and they were given them.
As seen with many spells like a druids deathward or heal, and arti's bladebarrier.

It needs to work both ways.
If a spell or ability is in the game, and it would normally be a part of the class, then just give it to them.

A dev came out and said on the subject of companions for Rangers: "It's not in the works".

I guess you have to be pay to play to get a pet...

[Airgeadlam]

There are plenty of wearable devotion items. All your arguments fall flat when you keep harping on how you can't melee and heal at the same time.

You're WRONG there. So stop making that an argument. It makes all your other arguments (which are stronger) seem much weaker because your readers discount your opinions as "exaggerated nerd-rage"

Please, list me how many items with devotion IX do we have now (either basic, improved, greater or superior). Crafting? Superior devotion V at lvl94. Most epic items are Sup. Devotion VI. To get to lvl9, unless I'm wrong, you need alchemical stuff.

And if I'm wrong I truly want to know, because I'm looking for that item to adjust my melee FvS once the expansion hits live.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Please, list me how many items with devotion IX do we have now (either basic, improved, greater or superior). Crafting? Superior devotion V at lvl94. Most epic items are Sup. Devotion VI. To get to lvl9, unless I'm wrong, you need alchemical stuff.

And if I'm wrong I truly want to know, because I'm looking for that item to adjust my melee FvS once the expansion hits live.

Epic Crest of St Markus and Epic Mask of Comedy where the items most kicked around in Beta.