Cleric, time to retire?

[DeafeningWhisper]

Let's see:

spell power nerfs BB because most damage comes from enhancements and clerics get none for force? check.

Need to fit extra items on self because of nerf to potency? Check.

Unlikely to melee because weapons give extra potency power via "implement" rule? Check.

Hard to kill makes the few insta kills I had useless? Check.

So unless I missed something, save healbot, I'm all out of uses for my clerics and I don't like been a healbot...

I hope they allow hirelings in raids, because all the "happy they finally nerfed those OP casters!" melees are gonna have no one to heal them.

[Truga]

Nah. Melees will learn to roll WF and get healed by standing next to the group of sorcs that are destroying everything while spamming mass reconstruct. We are getting mass reconstruct soon, right?

[Skavenaps]

oh yeah time to retire the crying

[MnaSidhe]

Let's see:

spell power nerfs BB because most damage comes from enhancements and clerics get none for force? check.

Need to fit extra items on self because of nerf to potency? Check.

Unlikely to melee because weapons give extra potency power via "implement" rule? Check.

Hard to kill makes the few insta kills I had useless? Check.

So unless I missed something, save healbot, I'm all out of uses for my clerics and I don't like been a healbot...

I hope they allow hirelings in raids, because all the "happy they finally nerfed those OP casters!" melees are gonna have no one to heal them.

Too much pessimism.

Hard to Kill is not as bad as it sounds... it only applies to the hardest quests on the hardest levels... so for most of the time you can still destruct things... and even in some heroic quests the monsters cast Death Ward on one another....

Blade Barrier kiting even works in Beta...
And even if the Artificer can make a bigger blade barrier... my cleric blade barrier still does damage...
And if the artificer has to run the monsters through 3 times, and I do 5 times... they are still dead!

[DeafeningWhisper]

Too much pessimism.

Hard to Kill is not as bad as it sounds... it only applies to the hardest quests on the hardest levels... so for most of the time you can still destruct things... and even in some heroic quests the monsters cast Death Ward on one another....

Blade Barrier kiting even works in Beta...
And even if the Artificer can make a bigger blade barrier... my cleric blade barrier still does damage...
And if the artificer has to run the monsters through 3 times, and I do 5 times... they are still dead!

I know, I was in the beta. The thing is, I pug a lot (Hell I only pug on my healers) and I don't see a ton of roles other then healer for my capped and lvl 19 cleric. One was an evoker the other a Nun with a Gun build, she'll still plink away while the evoker will... What? Look cool while running with the party?

What many people don't seem to realise is that ANY nerf to healers no matter how trivial it may seem to you = less healers PuGing and pugs are already waiting on healers long enough as is.

They are making the hardest job in DDO harder: no one recognises your role in the succes of the party, but are quickly blamed for a wipe, the only class that often LOSES plat after a quest is finished, people screming "heajl" all the time, been insulted by daring to more then just heal... This doesn't help puging, at all.

[MartinusWyllt]

What many people don't seem to realise is that ANY nerf to healers no matter how trivial it may seem to you = more people learning how to self-heal

More optimistic outcome in red.

[alexp80]

Hard to Kill is not as bad as it sounds... it only applies to the hardest quests on the hardest levels... so for most of the time you can still destruct things...

I'm not playing for years with my wiz to play epic casual. So for NONE of the time my spell will work anymore, simply because i will stop playing my wiz and my melee fvs either.

That's it. Now we will see again pugs waiting for hours to get a single cleric/caster (that is mandatory) to fill in the group.

[barryman5000]

Too much pessimism.

... maybe.

Hard to Kill is not as bad as it sounds... it only applies to the hardest quests on the hardest levels... so for most of the time you can still destruct things... and even in some heroic quests the monsters cast Death Ward on one another....

Except you can't dispel it and does nothing except make a wizard just cast mass hold like the old epics. Wouldn't be too much of a problem except you *can* get bravery bonus with epic levels so many people want to play them.

Blade Barrier kiting even works in Beta...
And even if the Artificer can make a bigger blade barrier... my cleric blade barrier still does damage...
And if the artificer has to run the monsters through 3 times, and I do 5 times... they are still dead!

I'm confused by the above. How much damage do you think a cleric will do while having to run around and heal people? Don't forget you have less spell power, less options for damage mitigation (b/c you now that rogue still has 36 ac in epic hard. He will never get all his bonuses up to the 50% of displacement).

Its all a bunch of last minute changes that Turbine did b/c they didn't want to scare the closed beta people.

[rjbutchko]

Too much pessimism.

Hard to Kill is not as bad as it sounds... it only applies to the hardest quests on the hardest levels... so for most of the time you can still destruct things... and even in some heroic quests the monsters cast Death Ward on one another....

Blade Barrier kiting even works in Beta...
And even if the Artificer can make a bigger blade barrier... my cleric blade barrier still does damage...
And if the artificer has to run the monsters through 3 times, and I do 5 times... they are still dead!

The problem with blade barrier kiting is that if mobs are held or dancing, blade barriers are worthless.

If blade barriers worked like ANY OTHER aoe then a mob standing in a blade barrier would continue taking damage and you could BB held mobs but, alas, this is not to be. (In fact, I once suggested that BBs be changed like this and got a bunch of /not signed. Maybe now people will understand the point I was trying to make then)

[idle1]

While it might suck, I found taking a level of art at the beginning, buffs a cleric in so many ways and fixes the horrible low levels since you can pew pew with a repeater/Zen and get 20% (no idea what it will be now.) to blade barrier, cometfall and fire spells. Works great for TR leveling.

[Xaxx]

nah heres what ya do

reroll clr or fvs to an 18/2 clr or fvs/fighter who is str/con based

pick up
toughness
weapon focus (your choice of 2h weapon)
power attack
crit
cleave
great cleave
all of these except toughness lead to...
overwelming critical (for one of your two epic feats)

this would leave you with 4 extra feats yet (or two if you wished to go pure 20 clr or fvs) quick and max you know just for your blade barriers

Next get to legendary dred ed.... become a legendary dred.... get your twists from well wherever you want, pick mele based and self serving ones only...

grab yourself a big ole 2 hander * esos if ya got it*

Congrats your a self healing mele with blade barriers.

Join groups, when they complain tell them to go to the boards and thank people who wanted caster nerfs, since they wanted rid of casters, and the devs decided to give in at all, you figured you'd join the train leaving the station and become a mele, so they have a self healing blade barrier throwing mele. Suggest to them that they may wish to pull out their pots or maybe stay near you and your aura *if your a clr* and go to the forums to discuss their opinion of recent changes.

I mean if every clr/fvs thats disatisfied with the way they're playing out the clr/fvs ed and the most recent changes did this they'd probably have to shut the forums down for a few days for the amount of people complaining, and I wouldnt want to be one of those posters who complains about casters, sticking your head out of your hideyhole while thats goin on will be lible to paint a big ole target on it for all the ticked off meles.

Personally i believe this is where my combat caster is going.

so to the op.. no more heal bot.. now mele... no one gets to complain about your heal bot being less powerful, all you have to worry about is healing yourself.

To any who wish to complain and say thats greedy thats bs.... sorry its not... its simply where I see the game seems to be making divine casters head to be the most useful. People are welcome to continue down whatever path they wish, but this is the only path I'll considering going down with a divine in the future, and anyone who complains will get told where to stick their opinion.... in the next *casters are op nerf them now* thread that comes long.

[HalfOrcBeautyQueen]

nah heres what ya do

reroll clr or fvs to an 18/2 clr or fvs/fighter who is str/con based

pick up
toughness
weapon focus (your choice of 2h weapon)
power attack
crit
cleave
great cleave
all of these except toughness lead to...
overwelming critical (for one of your two epic feats)

this would leave you with 4 extra feats yet (or two if you wished to go pure 20 clr or fvs) quick and max you know just for your blade barriers

Next get to legendary dred ed.... become a legendary dred.... get your twists from well wherever you want, pick mele based and self serving ones only...

grab yourself a big ole 2 hander * esos if ya got it*

Congrats your a self healing mele with blade barriers.

Join groups, when they complain tell them to go to the boards and thank people who wanted caster nerfs, since they wanted rid of casters, and the devs decided to give in at all, you figured you'd join the train leaving the station and become a mele, so they have a self healing blade barrier throwing mele. Suggest to them that they may wish to pull out their pots or maybe stay near you and your aura *if your a clr* and go to the forums to discuss their opinion of recent changes.

I mean if every clr/fvs thats disatisfied with the way they're playing out the clr/fvs ed and the most recent changes did this they'd probably have to shut the forums down for a few days for the amount of people complaining, and I wouldnt want to be one of those posters who complains about casters, sticking your head out of your hideyhole while thats goin on will be lible to paint a big ole target on it for all the ticked off meles.

Personally i believe this is where my combat caster is going.

so to the op.. no more heal bot.. now mele... no one gets to complain about your heal bot being less powerful, all you have to worry about is healing yourself.

To any who wish to complain and say thats greedy thats bs.... sorry its not... its simply where I see the game seems to be making divine casters head to be the most useful. People are welcome to continue down whatever path they wish, but this is the only path I'll considering going down with a divine in the future, and anyone who complains will get told where to stick their opinion.... in the next *casters are op nerf them now* thread that comes long.

I agree, I think we're going to be seeing a lot more STR-based Clerics & Fvs. Why not? It's fun. The biggest downfall to being a melee-based healer is swapping out items for Devotion Spellpower. That is - until the ideal gear set up is devised so you only have to swap out weapons and can leave accessories in place (for the most part).

[Dalsheel]

nah heres what ya do

reroll clr or fvs to an 18/2 clr or fvs/fighter who is str/con based

pick up
toughness
weapon focus (your choice of 2h weapon)
power attack
crit
cleave
great cleave
all of these except toughness lead to...
Overwelming critical (for one of your two epic feats)

this would leave you with 4 extra feats yet (or two if you wished to go pure 20 clr or fvs) quick and max you know just for your blade barriers

next get to legendary dred ed.... Become a legendary dred.... Get your twists from well wherever you want, pick mele based and self serving ones only...

Grab yourself a big ole 2 hander * esos if ya got it*

congrats your a self healing mele with blade barriers.

Join groups, when they complain tell them to go to the boards and thank people who wanted caster nerfs, since they wanted rid of casters, and the devs decided to give in at all, you figured you'd join the train leaving the station and become a mele, so they have a self healing blade barrier throwing mele. Suggest to them that they may wish to pull out their pots or maybe stay near you and your aura *if your a clr* and go to the forums to discuss their opinion of recent changes.

I mean if every clr/fvs thats disatisfied with the way they're playing out the clr/fvs ed and the most recent changes did this they'd probably have to shut the forums down for a few days for the amount of people complaining, and i wouldnt want to be one of those posters who complains about casters, sticking your head out of your hideyhole while thats goin on will be lible to paint a big ole target on it for all the ticked off meles.

Personally i believe this is where my combat caster is going.

So to the op.. No more heal bot.. Now mele... No one gets to complain about your heal bot being less powerful, all you have to worry about is healing yourself.

To any who wish to complain and say thats greedy thats bs.... Sorry its not... Its simply where i see the game seems to be making divine casters head to be the most useful. People are welcome to continue down whatever path they wish, but this is the only path i'll considering going down with a divine in the future, and anyone who complains will get told where to stick their opinion.... In the next *casters are op nerf them now* thread that comes long.

+1

[Grace_ana]

So your answer is, "Stop complaining and be a melee healer instead of a caster healer"? Really?

I don't like being a melee healer. I like casting. I was hardly OP with it, given the limited instakill spells we have, but that plus BB was useful. And since I didn't see a ton of clerics complaining about their abilities before the nerfs, I don't believe hiding in fear to say something about it matters anyway.

I don't want to be just another flavor of melee on my cleric.

[Xaxx]

So your answer is, "Stop complaining and be a melee healer instead of a caster healer"? Really?

I don't like being a melee healer. I like casting. I was hardly OP with it, given the limited instakill spells we have, but that plus BB was useful. And since I didn't see a ton of clerics complaining about their abilities before the nerfs, I don't believe hiding in fear to say something about it matters anyway.

I don't want to be just another flavor of melee on my cleric.

if your talking bout my post, it didnt mean stop complaining, it ment switch to mele.... not mele healer... MELE... drop mass heal for storm of vengance... etc.... become a MELE WITH SPELLS.. then for anyone who complains tell them to come complain to the forum for making this the most effective way of playing your class.

Let THEM do the complaining for/with you.

Let the forums burn with battlecleric hatred and turn that hatred twoards the devs nerfing casters. Let them touch that fire ... and the next time one of the OMG NERF ALL CASTER threads appear watch what happens

people can run what they want to run, my post was simply a suggestion to do with a character that is a viable build and something people dont get to complain about when they see it in a group unless they're on the forums to complaining about caster nerf. Run that battle caster, and anyone who complains go *dude whats your forum name, i'm going to look righ tnow at your recent posts and if theres nothing about complaining about dc stuff I'm going to tear you a new one*

[Don1966]

drop mass heal for storm of vengeance

Umm, it appears you haven't copied a cleric or favored soul over to Lamannia yet, divine as of right now are NOT getting any of the new divine spells being introduced. so, unless you are druid, no storm of vengeance for you.

[Xaxx]

Umm, it appears you haven't copied a cleric or favored soul over to Lamannia yet, divine as of right now are NOT getting any of the new divine spells being introduced. so, unless you are druid, no storm of vengeance for you.

true true

but...

going back to pre mod 6 with the shroud *before f2p* when they listed spells that were comming into the game in their press tour interviews.. earthquake was one of em... the only class that could have earthquake at the time was ..... cleric, there was no fvs or druid

back in april of 2009 when we were previewing update 9 *that eventually was rolled in with vast and mysterious to become f2p* when they were previewing spells that would be added in gaming interviews.... storm of vengance was one of those... well there was no druid back then.... and there was no fvs originally slated for mod 9....

So... we finaly have the 2 spells were were supposed to have 3 and 4 years ago for at the very least clerics... I dont believe they have a whole lot of choice but to give those 2 spells if nothing else to atleast clerics, and when clerics get them, theres no reason fvs wont also.

So while I see your point, they told us were were getting those spells for classes that were in game long long ago, and then didnt make them because they couldnt get the tech right.. well.. the techs here.... time to hand em over to those of us who waited YEARS to be able to use spells we were to get long ago.

[MeliCat]

So your answer is, "Stop complaining and be a melee healer instead of a caster healer"? Really?

I don't like being a melee healer. I like casting. I was hardly OP with it, given the limited instakill spells we have, but that plus BB was useful. And since I didn't see a ton of clerics complaining about their abilities before the nerfs, I don't believe hiding in fear to say something about it matters anyway.

I don't want to be just another flavor of melee on my cleric.

Yes I dont' like meleeing on my clerics. My clonks are caster builds :/ I like killing from a distance or CCing so that other people can kill stuff so I don't have to kill the stuff with too high fort saves and no place to kite them.

This is a big change for me. Having to create a weapon to actually hit stuff up close and personal from LoB. It's just not my style of playing a divine and I don't really want to. If I'm going to dps I would rather do so on a character that's seriously built for it like a fighter or a monk.

Suck it and see I guess.

[Thrudh]

Need to fit extra items on self because of nerf to potency? Check.

New items, new inventory setups. This will not be an issue.

Unlikely to melee because weapons give extra potency power via "implement" rule? Check.

Yeah, if your heals hit for 530 instead of 550, you're an utter gimp. You can still use melee weapons and heal and cast just fine.

Hard to kill makes the few insta kills I had useless? Check.

Maybe... Still need to play with it more. "Useless" is always an exaggeration though. Why is that MMO people always talk in extremes? It doesn't make the reasonable people listen more; it makes them listen less.

So unless I missed something

this just the same old forum rage we get before EVERY change.

[Maxallu]

yes retire, delete your toon and give me all your stuff.