Is There ANY Cleric Love?

[ShadowFlash]

I've been pouring over the forums for a while now, and the general consensus seems to be that insta-kill wizards and "divines" get a substantial kick in the pants.

"divines" are mostly referring to FvS's from what I can tell. I can't find the destiny info on clerics as well. There seems to be "some" hope for my melee-cleric, and my son's meele-soul...but it's a lot to digest.

Anyone have any POSITIVE observations I've missed for divines? If clerics are being pidgeon-holed into even more of a "healer mode" do they get major bonuses to this at least to compensate for their reduced SP (compared to FvS)

Does the "spell-power" system affect the RS Bursts and Aura as well? within what limitations? A battle-cleric could still be viable, I guess if the aura can be severely amped.

Random Ponderings....
ShadowFlash

[Chette]

Nope, there's not.
You don't even get an epic destiny.

But clerics are supposed to be heal bots anyway from the looks of things so...have fun.

[flaggson]

searing light changed to silver fire? ... not sure if it's a buff... but it's something like 2d4/lvl up to lvl 20 now ..

[sirgog]

Radiant Servant aura got a huge, huge boost from the Spellpower changes.

Any spell cast without Empower or Maximize goes up up up in damage, and aura don't take metamagics other than Empower Healing. (Edit: Forgot Burst does take maximize)

In one test I did, a Cleric's aura was healing a monk for well over 100 per non-crit tick. (The monk had decent but not silly amp)



Oh and Mass Heal heals for a lot more too but that isn't often relevant. Non-metamagiced Mass Cures hit for a lot more too but scale worse with Maximize and Empower (so say in Shroud cycling three masses without metas is a viable approach if your group is too squishy to survive between Mass Heals)

[Chette]

Radiant Servant abilities got a huge, huge boost from the Spellpower changes.

Any spell cast without Empower or Maximize goes up up up in damage, and burst/aura don't take metamagics other than Empower Healing.

Burst is absolutely affected my maximize and empower on live. Only aura is not.

[ShadowFlash]

Radiant Servant abilities got a huge, huge boost from the Spellpower changes.

Any spell cast without Empower or Maximize goes up up up in damage, and burst/aura don't take metamagics other than Empower Healing.

In one test I did, a Cleric's aura was healing a monk for well over 100 per non-crit tick. (The monk had decent but not silly amp)



Oh and Mass Heal heals for a lot more too but that isn't often relevant. Non-metamagiced Mass Cures hit for a lot more too but scale worse with Maximize and Empower (so say in Shroud cycling three masses without metas is a viable approach if your group is too squishy to survive between Mass Heals)

Thanks sirgog...this is NOT a doom thread, I'm just looking to adjust. Just so I understand better..
Burst/Aura no loner take any meta's other than Empower heal, BUT are boosted by the new spell power system? I'm assuming this is what you were referring to by the 100hp tics.

In the release notes...
Divine (Clerics, Favored Souls, Paladins) may select from:
Exalted Angel
Unyielding Sentinel

While not specifically getting their own destiny..they can freely spec into either of these 2? That dosen't sound too bad at first glance, as caster's can become more FvSish...and battle-clerics can gain a lot of paladin abilities. Is this how it works?

BTW, I gree with you sirgog, that this seems to have potential for "smart" party play...BUT, it's alot to digest

ShadowFlash

[UltraMonk2]

In the release notes...
Divine (Clerics, Favored Souls, Paladins) may select from:
Exalted Angel
Unyielding Sentinel

While not specifically getting their own destiny..they can freely spec into either of these 2? That dosen't sound too bad at first glance, as caster's can become more FvSish...and battle-clerics can gain a lot of paladin abilities. Is this how it works?

Yes that is what a Cleric's choices are to begin with Epic Destriny wise (provided you own Epic Destinies), however once you have leveled up a bit in an Epic Destiny you will be able to activate other Epic Destinies and level up in those. In addition with Twists of Fate you will be able to use an ability from an Epic Destiny you have already leveled in, in your current Epic Destiny.

So you could have combo's such as:

Cleric with 6 Tiers of Legendary Dreadnaught with Twists of Fate from Magister and Shadowdancer.

Cleric with 4 Tiers of Shadowdancer with Twists of Fate from Magister

Cleric with 6 Tiers of Magister with Twists of Fate from Fatesinger and Unyielding Sentinel

Further along the track they will be adding more Epic Destinies. So with the Race choices, Class choices, Multiclassing, Prestige Enhancement choices and Epic Destiny choices that makes for a lot of possible combinations.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Radiant Servant aura got a huge, huge boost from the Spellpower changes.

Nice, although since I was not part of the closed beta I'm not familiar with the Spellpower changes. Is there a thread someone could link that discusses this?

Any spell cast without Empower or Maximize goes up up up in damage, and aura don't take metamagics other than Empower Healing. (Edit: Forgot Burst does take maximize)

Hmm, sounds like a giant nerf bat to Maximize and Empower feats, which now gives me 2 extra feats to play with.

[Jingwei]

Radiant burst nerfed. Aura may be better.

Mass heal and Heal now buffed, because healing spell power now effects them.
(empowered maximized) Mass Cure spells nerfed.

(empowered maximized) Blade barrier nerfed, plus general lack of impulse boosting items.
(empowered maximized) divine punishment nerfed, especially when combined with general lack of radiance boosting items.
(heightened) cometfall used for crowd control gets a damage boost.
Implosion/destruction/slay living surprised nerfed on hard+ epic content.

Clonk nerfed. (All pajama wearing monk splashes seem to have gotten the nerf bat.)
Looks like cleric with full plate and shield may get a relatively large defensive boost.

Non-hand slot devotion items (Epic chainmail coif, epic mask of comedy) not giving bonuses comparable to other epic items (compare to epic ring of elemental essence). Hjealing ToD ring may be acceptable substitute, but still not a full 90 spell power). Don't know about any new non-hand slot items that could act as replacements.

Extra two feats will probably help melee divines fit in relevant melee feats.
To hit bonus now not really a thing, so just need to keep divine favor running for damage boost, divine power not so much.

[scoobmx]

Radiant burst nerfed. Aura may be better.

Mass heal and Heal now buffed, because healing spell power now effects them.
(empowered maximized) Mass Cure spells nerfed.

(empowered maximized) Blade barrier nerfed, plus general lack of impulse boosting items.
(empowered maximized) divine punishment nerfed, especially when combined with general lack of radiance boosting items.
(heightened) cometfall used for crowd control gets a damage boost.
Implosion/destruction/slay living surprised nerfed on hard+ epic content.

Clonk nerfed. (All pajama wearing monk splashes seem to have gotten the nerf bat.)
Looks like cleric with full plate and shield may get a relatively large defensive boost.

Non-hand slot devotion items (Epic chainmail coif, epic mask of comedy) not giving bonuses comparable to other epic items (compare to epic ring of elemental essence). Hjealing ToD ring may be acceptable substitute, but still not a full 90 spell power). Don't know about any new non-hand slot items that could act as replacements.

Extra two feats will probably help melee divines fit in relevant melee feats.
To hit bonus now not really a thing, so just need to keep divine favor running for damage boost, divine power not so much.

Soooo. I don't understand. Is my WF fvs nerfed across the board? Worse mass cures, worse spell damage, no disease/poison immunity, and non relevance of to-hit? What is the point of lord of blades fvs? I thought it was great sword proficiency? Why nerf an already suboptimal build? Devs don't think through and analyze their choices...

[Chette]

Soooo. I don't understand. Is my WF fvs nerfed across the board? Worse mass cures, worse spell damage, no disease/poison immunity, and non relevance of to-hit? What is the point of lord of blades fvs? I thought it was great sword proficiency? Why nerf an already suboptimal build? Devs don't think through and analyze their choices...

Ya, melee divines took a pretty big hit due to the lack of spell power items relevant to divine spells that are not weapons.

[ShadowFlash]

Ya, melee divines took a pretty big hit due to the lack of spell power items relevant to divine spells that are not weapons.

That's an interesting perspective...I haven't looked at gearing yet. Both destinies seem to have enough melee flavor to make them still viable. My heavy CHA Battle-Cleric may actually make it out of this OK. To-Hit is my issue currently. I'm not sure yet why everyone is referring to divine power no longer being as neccessary, but it's good news to me, if it's true.

I'm still wrapping my brain around spellpower...I thought gearing was hard on a heal/light/melee cleric before...now, yikes!

ShadowFlash

[Chette]

That's an interesting perspective...I haven't looked at gearing yet. Both destinies seem to have enough melee flavor to make them still viable. My heavy CHA Battle-Cleric may actually make it out of this OK. To-Hit is my issue currently. I'm not sure yet why everyone is referring to divine power no longer being as neccessary, but it's good news to me, if it's true.

I'm still wrapping my brain around spellpower...I thought gearing was hard on a heal/light/melee cleric before...now, yikes!

ShadowFlash

Yes, unfortunately there are quire a few nice spellpower items for elemental spells (especially from the challenges) but there isn't really anything for radiance or impact, and only a few devotion options, all of which fall below the 90 spellpower of the elemental items. Alchemicals are an option for casting divines, but don't really help a melee divine. Perhaps there will be some more flexible items in the new content, but regardless, the biggest hit you will probably be taking as a melee divine is that you now have to slot 3 spell power effects on your body.

[Artagon]

To-Hit is my issue currently. I'm not sure yet why everyone is referring to divine power no longer being as neccessary, but it's good news to me, if it's true.
ShadowFlash

Effectively.. everyone got a +25% bonus to hit out of the mod.. and you get glancing blows on 2+.

Basically think of it like this.. if you are not proficient in a weapon, you have the same attack bonus you had before in a proficient weapon.. if you ARE proficient, you get a +25% buff to your chance to hit (not to be confused with attack bonus).

[DarkSable]

Ya, melee divines took a pretty big hit due to the lack of spell power items relevant to divine spells that are not weapons.

Well... Not always. As long as you don't run a Torc, you're fine; one of the pieces of raid loot is VERY sexy for divines, and uses the neck slot.

That being said, neither Clerics NOR Fvd Souls got a proper destiny; I kinda feel like the EA is way too paladin slanted to fit a lot of caster-divines well.

[Don1966]

another thing is, none of the new spells that are on the divine spell list are able to be used by clerics or favored souls.
silver fire is just a new name for searing light.

[Diesastrum]

Best news for my cleric: they've put a timer on that stupid barbarian skill "spam cleave of suicidal nut-bag".

Totally fed up with players asking me or other players that can heal being their personal nannybot so they can get lots of big, pretty numbers come up on their screens and feel more secure about themselves...so devs ignore the shadowy figure's post and keep the cleric (and other healers) love a flowing.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yes there is love, mostly none consentual thou...

[Masadique]

Last I read, scrolls were benefiting from spell power. If that is still true, massive buff to divine, bards, and even artis/rogues.

[Ziindarax]

Soooo. I don't understand. Is my WF fvs nerfed across the board? Worse mass cures, worse spell damage, no disease/poison immunity, and non relevance of to-hit? What is the point of lord of blades fvs? I thought it was great sword proficiency? Why nerf an already suboptimal build? Devs don't think through and analyze their choices...

Actually, Warforged Favored Soul Melee's got a buff. Unless something's changed with this going Open, my Warforged Favored Soul was able to hit mobs more reliably with power attack on, using a weapon he wasn't proficient in (great-axes), and rarely needed to cast Divine Power/Favor.

With Angel, my Warforged had better ranged DPS (and renewal was quite nice too), and with Sentinel, he was much stronger as a tank/melee (good aligned Soul-Survivors can take the Annoint/purify weapons enhancements for up to 18 extra points of damage against evil-aligned mobs, on top of not needing to waste a red augment slot on something to breach Good DR)... Unless something has changed (though from the looks of it, most the changes seem final-ish, and it's just stress testing now).

In short, Warforged melee FvS benefit greatly from both Divine destinies whereas caster FvS only really benefit from the Exalted Angel.