Is There ANY Cleric Love?

[DarkSable]

Ya, melee divines took a pretty big hit due to the lack of spell power items relevant to divine spells that are not weapons.

Well... Not always. As long as you don't run a Torc, you're fine; one of the pieces of raid loot is VERY sexy for divines, and uses the neck slot.

That being said, neither Clerics NOR Fvd Souls got a proper destiny; I kinda feel like the EA is way too paladin slanted to fit a lot of caster-divines well.

[Don1966]

another thing is, none of the new spells that are on the divine spell list are able to be used by clerics or favored souls.
silver fire is just a new name for searing light.

[Dolphious]

Clerics can wear heavy armor, and heavy armor is getting a huge boost. Cast divine power and your PRR is as good as a fighter. If you depend on torcing you'll probably want to keep your AC low, but PRR is always nice.

Also clerics should be able to heal without any metamagic, meaning more SP for fun stuff.

[donblas]

Anyone have any POSITIVE observations I've missed for divines? ShadowFlash

Yes, they removed Combat Training

[Diesastrum]

Best news for my cleric: they've put a timer on that stupid barbarian skill "spam cleave of suicidal nut-bag".

Totally fed up with players asking me or other players that can heal being their personal nannybot so they can get lots of big, pretty numbers come up on their screens and feel more secure about themselves...so devs ignore the shadowy figure's post and keep the cleric (and other healers) love a flowing.

[nivarch]

I'm not going to compare to live (many people already did this) just compare what clerics gain compared to FvS with the expansion:

• They will have higher AC (and PRR) from the armor they wear, making them more survivable
• They can take exalted angel granting them Leap of faith, which is probably the best survivability ability in the game.
• They can use a twist of fate to gain DR9/Cold Iron reproducing the effect of the FvS capstone (from the shiradi tree ; also has 15 spellpower so a good deal overall)
• The SP difference is going to be slightly reduced since spell points granted by destinies are not multiplied by 2 for FvS (not sure if it's a significant difference)

And I don't see any change really better for FvS than cleric...

Until the enhancement revamp I think that comparatively to FvS, clerics are in a very good position.

Note that this is a pretty pointless comparison, but it's just to make sure clerics are aware that even if some changes are bad, it's still not too bad

[UltraMonk2]

In the release notes...
Divine (Clerics, Favored Souls, Paladins) may select from:
Exalted Angel
Unyielding Sentinel

While not specifically getting their own destiny..they can freely spec into either of these 2? That dosen't sound too bad at first glance, as caster's can become more FvSish...and battle-clerics can gain a lot of paladin abilities. Is this how it works?

Yes that is what a Cleric's choices are to begin with Epic Destriny wise (provided you own Epic Destinies), however once you have leveled up a bit in an Epic Destiny you will be able to activate other Epic Destinies and level up in those. In addition with Twists of Fate you will be able to use an ability from an Epic Destiny you have already leveled in, in your current Epic Destiny.

So you could have combo's such as:

Cleric with 6 Tiers of Legendary Dreadnaught with Twists of Fate from Magister and Shadowdancer.

Cleric with 4 Tiers of Shadowdancer with Twists of Fate from Magister

Cleric with 6 Tiers of Magister with Twists of Fate from Fatesinger and Unyielding Sentinel

Further along the track they will be adding more Epic Destinies. So with the Race choices, Class choices, Multiclassing, Prestige Enhancement choices and Epic Destiny choices that makes for a lot of possible combinations.

[donblas]

I'm not going to compare to live (many people already did this) just compare what clerics gain compared to FvS with the expansion:

• They will have higher AC (and PRR) from the armor they wear, making them more survivable
• They can take exalted angel granting them Leap of faith, which is probably the best survivability ability in the game.
• They can use a twist of fate to gain DR9/Cold Iron reproducing the effect of the FvS capstone (from the shiradi tree ; also has 15 spellpower so a good deal overall)
• The SP difference is going to be slightly reduced since spell points granted by destinies are not multiplied by 2 for FvS (not sure if it's a significant difference)

And I don't see any change really better for FvS than cleric...

Until the enhancement revamp I think that comparatively to FvS, clerics are in a very good position.

Note that this is a pretty pointless comparison, but it's just to make sure clerics are aware that even if some changes are bad, it's still not too bad

You've stated that this is a comparison between cleric and FvS and I understand that, but "more survivable" than FvS does not necessarily mean "more survivable". Also for those who use mithral full plate (eg cavalry plate) the AC and PRR will be no different as far as I can see.

And relative changes in ability between cleric and FvS due to destinies will have no effect on pretty much most clerics/FvS in the game because destinies apply to what I suspect is a very small proportion of toons in the game.

[Ziindarax]

This seems more like trying to scrape the bottom here - it's not LOB FVS's particularly that got this kind of buff, it's melees in general who aren't using a proficient weapon. But why you're using a greataxe on a LOB FVS is beyond me - the greatsword proficiency autogrant and additional greatsword damage are the standout features. It certainly isn't the free shield or the bladesworn transformation, I can tell you that.

Personally, I'm using an ESOS with power attack on and can currently hit almost everything on a 2. I'm guessing that this won't be true after U14. Therefore it is considered a nerf.

At level 21, I ran out of useful feats I could think of, so I took Great-axe proficiency. I have an Elemental Greataxe of Fire that is EXTREMELY useful in much of the content (and simply out-DPS' my Lit2 Greatsword by quite a bit since Greater Incineration procs more).

Also, I don't have any good epic Greatswords.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Radiant Servant aura got a huge, huge boost from the Spellpower changes.

Nice, although since I was not part of the closed beta I'm not familiar with the Spellpower changes. Is there a thread someone could link that discusses this?

Any spell cast without Empower or Maximize goes up up up in damage, and aura don't take metamagics other than Empower Healing. (Edit: Forgot Burst does take maximize)

Hmm, sounds like a giant nerf bat to Maximize and Empower feats, which now gives me 2 extra feats to play with.

[GermanicusMaximus]

(empowered maximized) Blade barrier nerfed, plus general lack of impulse boosting items.
(empowered maximized) divine punishment nerfed, especially when combined with general lack of radiance boosting items.
Implosion/destruction/slay living surprised nerfed on hard+ epic content.

Maybe the AC changes are so substantial that melee don't need to be healed by divines anymore. If that is not true, Turbine should take a moment to remember the last time they borked game play for divine toons. That was the great "UI Fiasco of 2011". Divine toons disappeared from the game, LFMs hung open forever, and the UI was hastily reworked. If there have been substantial nerfs, it could be a long summer for Turbine....

Non-hand slot devotion items (Epic chainmail coif, epic mask of comedy) not giving bonuses comparable to other epic items (compare to epic ring of elemental essence). Hjealing ToD ring may be acceptable substitute, but still not a full 90 spell power). Don't know about any new non-hand slot items that could act as replacements.

Properly gearing a divine caster has always been a PITA in this game.

[Ziindarax]

I'm not going to compare to live (many people already did this) just compare what clerics gain compared to FvS with the expansion:

• They will have higher AC (and PRR) from the armor they wear, making them more survivable
• They can take exalted angel granting them Leap of faith, which is probably the best survivability ability in the game.
• They can use a twist of fate to gain DR9/Cold Iron reproducing the effect of the FvS capstone (from the shiradi tree ; also has 15 spellpower so a good deal overall)
• The SP difference is going to be slightly reduced since spell points granted by destinies are not multiplied by 2 for FvS (not sure if it's a significant difference)

And I don't see any change really better for FvS than cleric...

Until the enhancement revamp I think that comparatively to FvS, clerics are in a very good position.

Note that this is a pretty pointless comparison, but it's just to make sure clerics are aware that even if some changes are bad, it's still not too bad

1) A Lord of Blades Warforged can take the Adamantine Body feat, which grants them the same effect as heavy armor... meaning they can get roughly the same PRR as a cleric.

2) Favored Souls get their wings to recharge more often with the Destiny leap.

3) True.

4) Also true.

Granted, I am biased, and only played a Lord of Blades, but the new destinies work well for the Lord of Blades FvS; they can twist Avenging Light and increased healing Amp from the Angel destiny, and work their way toward legendary dreadnaught. Additionally, some of the abilities in Unyielding Sentinel make Lord of Blades Favored Souls more practical melee combatants than they currently are (perhaps so much so that when you have the tree maxed, and in the right stances, they're virtually indestructible [beyond crowd control, and powerful high-damage attacks/spells, there is very little that can stop a Lord of Blades Favored Soul as he/she becomes a Juggernaught of Destruction]).

Clerics would make decent Shiradi champions though, as Zen Archery would greatly enhance their bow capabilities, and Shiradi is a nice tree for Arcane Archers.

[nivarch]

1) A Lord of Blades Warforged can take the Adamantine Body feat, which grants them the same effect as heavy armor... meaning they can get roughly the same PRR as a cleric.

2) Favored Souls get their wings to recharge more often with the Destiny leap.

3) True.

4) Also true.

Granted, I am biased, and only played a Lord of Blades, but the new destinies work well for the Lord of Blades FvS; they can twist Avenging Light and increased healing Amp from the Angel destiny, and work their way toward legendary dreadnaught. Additionally, some of the abilities in Unyielding Sentinel make Lord of Blades Favored Souls more practical melee combatants than they currently are (perhaps so much so that when you have the tree maxed, and in the right stances, they're virtually indestructible [beyond crowd control, and powerful high-damage attacks/spells, there is very little that can stop a Lord of Blades Favored Soul as he/she becomes a Juggernaught of Destruction]).

Clerics would make decent Shiradi champions though, as Zen Archery would greatly enhance their bow capabilities, and Shiradi is a nice tree for Arcane Archers.

I was biased too since I was considering an evoker FvS But it's true it seems like LoB FvS can become killing machines... However I wonder if it's not possible to achieve pretty much the same on a fleshy cleric that won't have the healing penalty.
Also reduced cooldown on leap of faith is nice, but it's far from being as nice as just getting the ability imo!

[scoobmx]

I was biased too since I was considering an evoker FvS But it's true it seems like LoB FvS can become killing machines... However I wonder if it's not possible to achieve pretty much the same on a fleshy cleric that won't have the healing penalty.
Also reduced cooldown on leap of faith is nice, but it's far from being as nice as just getting the ability imo!

Sort of, but they won't be killing machines at the same time as being a great healer, which was workable before this change. Now they are one or the other depending on the weapon used and destiny chosen, whereas before I would have a clicky or 2 running and get full damage heals and dots while swinging ESOS with damage boost. I think the stigma that LOB FVS's can't heal (at least players that play this type of FVS poorly) will be stronger. At that point, I feel like many people will have to choose either healbot or crappy dps but not both simultaneously.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yes there is love, mostly none consentual thou...

[nivarch]

Sort of, but they won't be killing machines at the same time as being a great healer, which was workable before this change. Now they are one or the other depending on the weapon used and destiny chosen, whereas before I would have a clicky or 2 running and get full damage heals and dots while swinging ESOS with damage boost. I think the stigma that LOB FVS's can't heal (at least players that play this type of FVS poorly) will be stronger. At that point, I feel like many people will have to choose either healbot or crappy dps but not both simultaneously.

That's possible.
However I don't see a 15 (or even 18 or 21 on epic items) implement bonus being *that* important that you won't be able to heal with a DPS weapon in hand.
However it's true you'll have to dedicate an item spot for devotion (erm positive spellpower) which will also reduce your melee capabilities.

But really I'm not very good at melee FvS. Always wanted to level up one, but never found the time. So my vision on this type of build is probably flawed. I'm much more at ease with evokers.

[scoobmx]

That's possible.
However I don't see a 15 (or even 18 or 21 on epic items) implement bonus being *that* important that you won't be able to heal with a DPS weapon in hand.
However it's true you'll have to dedicate an item spot for devotion (erm positive spellpower) which will also reduce your melee capabilities.

But really I'm not very good at melee FvS. Always wanted to level up one, but never found the time. So my vision on this type of build is probably flawed. I'm much more at ease with evokers.

Yea, it's mostly the devotion. The 15% boost from implement isn't all that big a deal, but random generated loot from the expansion shows over 100% from devotion (102 spellpower if I remember). I think calculations that show increased effectiveness without metamagics assume this maximal value of spellpower from devotion. For weaker non-weapon devotion items, I might be forced to run with maximize as I currently do, but it's been shown that the metamagics are less efficient than they currently are.

[Masadique]

Last I read, scrolls were benefiting from spell power. If that is still true, massive buff to divine, bards, and even artis/rogues.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Last I read, scrolls were benefiting from spell power. If that is still true, massive buff to divine, bards, and even artis/rogues.

A dev was quoted as saying it wasn't WAI and been fixed.

[CheeseMilk]

Best news for my cleric: they've put a timer on that stupid barbarian skill "spam cleave of suicidal nut-bag".

Totally fed up with players asking me or other players that can heal being their personal nannybot so they can get lots of big, pretty numbers come up on their screens and feel more secure about themselves...so devs ignore the shadowy figure's post and keep the cleric (and other healers) love a flowing.

Now that's funny

+1 when I can again.