Epic feats

[threefeetunder]

Taken off YanPLs old thread and recent observations

Bulwark of Defense

+2 to all saving throws and +4 to AC while in defensive stance
--------------------
Combat Archery
Requirement:
-Point Blank Shoot
-DEX:21+

+1[base damage] and +2 dodge when using ranged weapons.
---------------------
Epic Mental Toughness
requirement:
-Improved Mental Toughness

+200 sp.
---------------------
Epic Spell Focus: <spell school>
requirement:
-Greater Spell Focus: <spell school>
-lvl 11 cleric/druid/wizard, or lvl 12 sorcerer/favored soul, or lvl 15 artificer, or lvl 16 bard

+1 to DC.
----------------------
Epic Toughness
requirement:
-CON:21+
-Toughness

+50 hp.
----------------------
Epic Skills

+1 to all skills, can be taken multiple times
----------------------
Epic Spell Penetration
requirement:
-spell penetration
-greater spell penetration

+4 to spell penetration
----------------------
Great [Charisma | Constitution | Dexterity | Intelligence | Strength | Wisdom]

+1 to stat, can be taken multiple times
----------------------
Improved Sneak Attack
requirement:
-12+ Rogue
-DEX:21+

+3d6 sneak damage
----------------------
Improved Martial Arts
requirement:
-12+ monk

+1(base damage) with unarmed
+0.5(base damage) with other ki weapons
Can be picked multiple times
----------------------
Vorpal Strikes
requirement:
-12+ monk
-WIS 23+
-improved critical bludgeoning weapons

Your unarmed strikes are now considered vorpal and slashing. (blablablapowerful may resist blabla take 100 damage)
-----------------------
Inspire Excellence
requirement:
-inspire heroics (lvl 15 bard song)
-20 trained ranks of perform

Inspire Excellence is a song granting +4 competence bonus to chosen stat to you and your allies.
-----------------------
Overwhelming Critical: [Bludgeoning | Piercing | Slashing]
requirement:
-Power Attack
-Cleave
-Great Cleave
-Weapon Focus: [Bludgeoning | Piercing | Slashing]
-Improved Critical: [Bludgeoning | Piercing | Slashing]
-STR: 23+

+1 to crit multiplier on natural 19s and 20s with chosen set of weapons.

[Ranncore]

any update on this? certainly there must be more epic feats. hoping to see something maybe turning related for clerics.

[threefeetunder]

any update on this? certainly there must be more epic feats. hoping to see something maybe turning related for clerics.

Thats all of them for now, maybe they'd add more later, but i checked with every class and race to see if there were any new ones since closed beta (and there are, epic skills and spell penetration weren't there before).

Of course I might've just missed one, so if you see anything (click on show unavailable in the feat list), go ahead and post it here and i'll add it to the op.

[Noctus]

Thanks for this quick overview.

[sephiroth1084]

Looks like the class level requirements got lowered quite a bit, from 18 levels to 12.
Also, did the stat requirements drop by 2 points for a lot of these? Wasn't the Dex requirement for Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack 23+ before?

[DeafeningWhisper]

Looks like the class level requirements got lowered quite a bit, from 18 levels to 12.
Also, did the stat requirements drop by 2 points for a lot of these? Wasn't the Dex requirement for Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack 23+ before?

Nope, archery at least was always 21.

[Forgeborn]

Looks like the class level requirements got lowered quite a bit, from 18 levels to 12.
Also, did the stat requirements drop by 2 points for a lot of these? Wasn't the Dex requirement for Combat Archery and Improved Sneak Attack 23+ before?

sneak and archery were 21 before, vorpal strikes was 25 wisdom (which was insanely high, 23 is still pretty high but at least managable without utter devotion)

[sephiroth1084]

They still need to come down (the ones that have and the ones that haven't). Should probably be 19 in a stat (start with a 19, an 18 and a +1 tome, a 17 and a +2 tome, a 16 and a +3 tome, or a 15 and a +4 tome), since a 21 is (18 and a +3 tome, or 17 and a +4 tome), and 23 is (20 and a +3 tome, or 19 and a +4 tome), before looking at level-ups.

Some focus should be encouraged.
ALL focus should not be.

[WurmBurned]

I’m very glad to see the requirements lowered for most of these. I would still like to see the 21 constitution requirement for Epic Toughness reduced to 19 and the wisdom requirement for Vorpal Strikes lowered as well, but the class level requirements are much less of an issue now and that was my main concern.

[Forgeborn]

I’m very glad to see the requirements lowered for most of these. I would still like to see the 21 constitution requirement for Epic Toughness reduced to 19 and the wisdom requirement for Vorpal Strikes lowered as well, but the class level requirements are much less of an issue now and that was my main concern.

the toughness con requirement pretty much comes down to 'casters and two handed melees only', which really sucks, characters that are MAD can't really get it because the need to start with a high con punishes their other statistics.

For the rest, I personally believe that the vorpal strikes should be lowered to 21, so it doesn't require as much devotion to it, as 21's are pretty decently reachable.

[Xaxx]

Dont take this the wrong way guys... but an epic feat that is twice as powerful as the normal feat... why shouldnt it take some devotion to get to it???

If you want it, plan it into your build.... dont get me wrong... it kinda sucks that some of them are higher, but at the same time, if you want it build for it, if you have to sacrifice something to get to it... well then you have to ask youself... just like every other time in this game.... is it worth the sacrafice for that?

They've already lowered the stats for some of them once... and you want others lowered, and the ones lowered already brought down some more?

you want epic toughness.. well then at char creation if it comes down to 2 str and 2 con.. you have to decide which do you want more... 75 more hp (epic toughness and 2 con at lev 25) or +1 to hit and +1 or 2 damage and a feat used somewhere else.. or dump two level up points into it... and the (oh my god i cant min max and get everything I want) argument doesnt work sorry guys. Not trying to be rude just tellin ya the truth.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Dont take this the wrong way guys... but an epic feat that is twice as powerful as the normal feat... why shouldnt it take some devotion to get to it???

If you want it, plan it into your build.... dont get me wrong... it kinda sucks that some of them are higher, but at the same time, if you want it build for it, if you have to sacrifice something to get to it... well then you have to ask youself... just like every other time in this game.... is it worth the sacrafice for that?

They've already lowered the stats for some of them once... and you want others lowered, and the ones lowered already brought down some more?

you want epic toughness.. well then at char creation if it comes down to 2 str and 2 con.. you have to decide which do you want more... 75 more hp (epic toughness and 2 con at lev 25) or +1 to hit and +1 or 2 damage and a feat used somewhere else.. or dump two level up points into it... and the (oh my god i cant min max and get everything I want) argument doesnt work sorry guys. Not trying to be rude just tellin ya the truth.

I thought regular toughness capped at lvl 20?

And I agree, all my ranged toons are dropping their secondary stats for enough dex to fit combat archery or example.

[Xaxx]

I thought regular toughness capped at lvl 20?

And I agree, all my ranged toons are dropping their secondary stats for enough dex to fit combat archery or example.

the 75 hp i said was 50 for epic touughness and 25 for +2 con (+1 hp every level at 25 levels)

toughness ... tbh im not sure if it caps at 20 or not... saw someone on here say that it went to 25... but tbh i never actually checked it on my 25s on the test server to see if it had moved up, guess ill have to go look.

[maddmatt70]

Dont take this the wrong way guys... but an epic feat that is twice as powerful as the normal feat... why shouldnt it take some devotion to get to it???

If you want it, plan it into your build.... dont get me wrong... it kinda sucks that some of them are higher, but at the same time, if you want it build for it, if you have to sacrifice something to get to it... well then you have to ask youself... just like every other time in this game.... is it worth the sacrafice for that?

They've already lowered the stats for some of them once... and you want others lowered, and the ones lowered already brought down some more?

you want epic toughness.. well then at char creation if it comes down to 2 str and 2 con.. you have to decide which do you want more... 75 more hp (epic toughness and 2 con at lev 25) or +1 to hit and +1 or 2 damage and a feat used somewhere else.. or dump two level up points into it... and the (oh my god i cant min max and get everything I want) argument doesnt work sorry guys. Not trying to be rude just tellin ya the truth.

I have no problem with stringent requirements the only problem I have is having builds like my archer that is wisdom based and capped at level 20 and has 16 started dex with +3 dex tome that I can not get the archery one unless I lesser reincarnate which is turbine points because there is only one level up point between 21 and 25 - that sucks. Now the epic toughness feat is difficult for paladins when compared to fighters because paladins have strength, con, and charisma for sure whereas fighters just have strength and con which I guess is o.k. if the intent is fighters get more hit points vs. paladins.

[sephiroth1084]

Dont take this the wrong way guys... but an epic feat that is twice as powerful as the normal feat... why shouldnt it take some devotion to get to it???

If you want it, plan it into your build.... dont get me wrong... it kinda sucks that some of them are higher, but at the same time, if you want it build for it, if you have to sacrifice something to get to it... well then you have to ask youself... just like every other time in this game.... is it worth the sacrafice for that?

They've already lowered the stats for some of them once... and you want others lowered, and the ones lowered already brought down some more?

you want epic toughness.. well then at char creation if it comes down to 2 str and 2 con.. you have to decide which do you want more... 75 more hp (epic toughness and 2 con at lev 25) or +1 to hit and +1 or 2 damage and a feat used somewhere else.. or dump two level up points into it... and the (oh my god i cant min max and get everything I want) argument doesnt work sorry guys. Not trying to be rude just tellin ya the truth.

Because they are pulling the feat requirements from the pen and paper material, which assumed that players would be able to qualify for stat prerequisites with +4 and +6 stat items in addition to tomes (and other feats, like the Great <stat> feats, and class abilities), and because in PnP there were many more epic feats to choose from, so it was less of a penalty for you to be unable to qualify for some of the ones that seem attractive.

In order to get a 21 in DDO, you need a much higher starting stat than to hit the same value in PnP, and investment in some stats is simply not worthwhile. With the game making to-hit an issue again (possibly), you lose quite a bit of power in order to get your 21 Con for Epic Toughness. And it probably isn't a choice between +2 Str and +2 Con at creation... There's just too little return on starting with above a 16 Con for most non-casters when you kind of need some points in other stats. A 23 Wis is even worse, and has lower returns, even, than pumping Con.

[VorpalKnight]

In PnP you could use +stat items to qualify for Feats? That makes sense of the requirements being so high for some Feats.

To be honest the thing that I find annoying with such high attributes is having to TR for a few of my toons, no one wants to end up paying for for Hearts of Wood than for the **** expansion or worse, having to TR their characters.

[Emili]

Because they are pulling the feat requirements from the pen and paper material, which assumed that players would be able to qualify for stat prerequisites with +4 and +6 stat items in addition to tomes (and other feats, like the Great <stat> feats, and class abilities), and because in PnP there were many more epic feats to choose from, so it was less of a penalty for you to be unable to qualify for some of the ones that seem attractive.

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the
indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus,
or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A
character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she
gains the prerequisite. For example, at 3rd level, Krusk, the halforc
barbarian, could spend 1 skill point on the Ride skill
(gaining his first rank in Ride) and select the Mounted Combat
feat at the same time.
A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
For example, if your character’s Strength drops below 13
because a ray of enfeeblement spell, he or she can’t use the Power
Attack feat until the prerequisite is once again met. A prerequisite
may not be met by use of temporary means, worn, held or spell.

In order to get a 21 in DDO, you need a much higher starting stat than to hit the same value in PnP, and investment in some stats is simply not worthwhile. With the game making to-hit an issue again (possibly), you lose quite a bit of power in order to get your 21 Con for Epic Toughness. And it probably isn't a choice between +2 Str and +2 Con at creation... There's just too little return on starting with above a 16 Con for most non-casters when you kind of need some points in other stats. A 23 Wis is even worse, and has lower returns, even, than pumping Con.

The reason D&D Epic feats are so deep in prereq is an actual Epic level character gains "class bonus" feats - every class has least 3 or 4 feat slots at 25, so you may near max a stat, read a tome or manual gain +1 ability every 4 levels and take multiple great constitution feats to meat epic toughness or what have ya... etc...

[sephiroth1084]

Yeah. Stat items would count for stat totals for qualifying for feats--if you lost access to the bonus (you took the item off, it broke, etc...), you lose access to that feat and any it was a prerequisite for until you got the bonus back.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Based on sephiroth1084's arguments, I think the stat requirements should be 18 or 19.

[Therrias]

They should probably add "Requires: Character level 21" to these feats' descriptions. Or an epic descriptor or something.

These feats are just mixed in their with the regular ones. Some newbie is going to be very disappointed when they cannot take improved martial arts 5 times. I know there was some confusion when they initially were added to the beta as to whether you could take imp martial arts and imp sneak attack at level 18.