Hard to Kill - Followup Caster Buff?

[Zinruko]

Epic monsters on hard and elite are now resistant against death if their CR is above 20. This ward is called “hard to kill” and acts as a death ward until the targets hps drops below 50% which removes the ward. The ward doesn’t restore after the monster heals.

Okay haha that's nice Turbine, now where is the followup buff we are getting for casters?

Nice new effect on new raid loot?

Epic spells!?!?!?

Even more awesome magister destiny?

Or is my caster going to be as useless as all my other toons now...

I've gone through this entire beta with the mindset that Turbine is nerfing things now so classes aren't altogether too powerful once the enhancement pass/new loot/feats/destinies/goodies come out.

Now the enhancement pass is delayed till Novemeber... we only have a half dozen or so epic feats... most of the destinies are horrible... and the nerfs keep coming.

If you are planning on releasing some stuff to bring things back into balance I would appreciate it if you would announce it before I nerd rage any further...

Thanks!

[sirgog]

Casters have no trouble pulling their weight in present epics without death spells. They can't solo without running out of SP in most situations, but they can certainly pull their weight.

Acid Rain cast on 3-4 mobs does a tremendous amount of DPS, and on Lamannia nuking without metamagics is cheap and sustainable for a long time. (Non-meta'ed spells do a lot more damage post MOTU than on present live).

[Vellrad]

Well, be glad you know it now.
You still got time.
To not be useless mass hold spammer you need to get some gear and TR to sorcerer (if you're wizard).
Hope you didn't used the stone yet.

Sorcerers have no trouble pulling their weight in present epics without death spells. They can't solo without running out of SP in most situations, but they can certainly pull their weight.

Acid Rain cast on 3-4 mobs does a tremendous amount of DPS, and on Lamannia nuking without metamagics is cheap and sustainable for a long time. (Non-meta'ed spells do a lot more damage post MOTU than on present live).

little fix
Wizards don't got sufficient mana to kill mobs via direct damage.

[Chette]

Casters have no trouble pulling their weight in present epics without death spells. They can't solo without running out of SP in most situations, but they can certainly pull their weight.

Acid Rain cast on 3-4 mobs does a tremendous amount of DPS, and on Lamannia nuking without metamagics is cheap and sustainable for a long time. (Non-meta'ed spells do a lot more damage post MOTU than on present live).

So...a multi-TRed epic geared caster can have the same usefulness as a first lifer? How exactly is that good for the game?

This also HEAVILY favours sorcerers now over wizards, and is an absolute kick in the teeth for caster divines, who have very few SP efficient damage spells. Just another piece of evidence to come out in this expansion showing how the devs think they're all supposed to be healbots.

At least give casters a chance to instakill. So simply REMOVE this ability from the game doesn't make anything more versatile, it removes choice.

Increase saves and spell resistance and give enemy casters more buff spells like deathward and FoM. Problem solved and it allows for scaling, so that you can actually work towards being able to use insta kills.

Blanket immunities are a just completely terrible and senseless design choice. They are a lazy way to stop people from doing something you don't like because you aren't creative enough to design something balanced.

[Faent]

So...a multi-TRed epic geared caster can have the same usefulness as a first lifer? How exactly is that good for the game?

It's good for the game in SirGog's mind.

[BTIGER]

They might as well implement regenerating spell points now (hey throw in regenerating HP while you are at it to balance melees).

[Noctus]

So as i understand the effect Casters now have to work with melees if they want to Insta-gib monsters in the highest difficulties of the endgame, instead of just walking into a room full of mobs and wailing them all.

So why is promoting cooperation between melees and arcanes bad, where before the Arcanes hardly needed melees outside of raids?

[Chette]

So as i understand the effect Casters now have to work with melees if they want to Insta-gib monsters in the highest difficulties of the endgame, instead of just walking into a room full of mobs and wailing them all.

So why is promoting cooperation between melees and arcanes bad, where before the Arcanes hardly needed melees outside of raids?

Because arcanes and melees ALREADY work together by having casters work on trash while melees work on bosses or other stronger targets. When you're at the end of epic LoB, what would you rather have your melees doing? Beating down all of the nightmares so that casters can kill them, or killing the pillars?

[justagame]

Thank you, Turbine, for nerfing caster divines at endgame now once again. Really makes those past lives investments for DC's and spell pen worth it.

[Faent]

Thank you, Turbine, for nerfing caster divines at endgame now once again. Really makes those past lives investments for DC's and spell pen worth it.

My next project was going to be investing a lot of work in my casting FvS. Glad I didn't waste my time on *YET ANOTHER* build Turbine will just smack into the ground because they can't figure out how to properly design their game and so change it radically every couple of years.

Turbine should really get credit for introducing a new grind nobody ever thought of before. Totally change the game every few years, forcing your players to completely start over endlessly if they want to keep up. Oh, and then charge them to start over to keep up. It's pure genius. It works even better if you pretend you're offering Dungeons and Dragons while you've actually tossed the SRD in the trash and spit upon the grave of Gary Gygax.

[Candela90]

My fvs hates it....
It nerfs also rogues, right? They cant assassinate mobs with full hp practically on all epic content...
Its not the right move - really not the right one.

[Chette]

My next project was going to be investing a lot of work in my casting FvS. Glad I didn't waste my time on *YET ANOTHER* build Turbine will just smack into the ground because they can't figure out how to properly design their game and so change it radically every couple of years.

Turbine should really get credit for introducing a new grind nobody ever thought of before. Totally change the game every few years, forcing your players to completely start over endlessly if they want to keep up. Oh, and then charge them to start over to keep up. It's pure genius. It works even better if you pretend you're offering Dungeons and Dragons while you've actually tossed the SRD in the trash.

3x cleric, 3x FvS, 2x Sorc (1 more to go), 3x wizard, 1x everything else here on my casting FvS....sigh...so many dungeon tokens (not to mention time) wasted.

[LeLoric]

Sorcs vault to top of the heap again.

Stat dmg becomes pretty big again for melees.

Rogues and high wis monks suffer a lot here too.

Several of your new epic destinies are now **** before you ever released them.

Wizards and casting divines go back to 2nd rate citizens like before.

Single target instakill stuff did not in any way need this kind of nerf.

Nerf the aoe's sure but single targets is ridiculous.

[Krell]

I agree this is dissapointing. SR and DC seemed to level the playing field with instakill and many players invested a great amount of time to reach effective levels at end game. I think it made sense when this immunity was removed in epics, and I don't see that anything has changed to justify reapplying it in what I consider to be end game content. I don't think the 50% rule is worthwhile beyond finishing off a single target. If damage and CC is the name of the game again, I'd be better off with my AM for more spell points and cheap spells or my Sorc for pure damage. I don't see the point of this staggering blow against a popular class that required a substantial time investment to see its potential.

[Autolycus]

I'm also disappointed.

I guess I'll be dumping my elven Wizard (which I made to take the racial spell pen enhancements) and respecing my caster cleric into a battle cleric (hey, it's what Turbine wants).

[Chette]

I'm also disappointed.

I guess I'll be dumping my elven Wizard (which I made to take the racial spell pen enhancements) and respecing my caster cleric into a battle cleric (hey, it's what Turbine wants).

Turbine doesn't want battle clerics, you're going to need to be holding spell power items in those hands.

Just stick to healing.

Kthxbye.

[Autolycus]

Turbine doesn't want battle clerics, you're going to need to be holding spell power items in those hands.

Just stick to healing.

Kthxbye.

While I hope you're wrong, I'm afraid you're right. If so, I'll have to find something else to play, as I'll be shelving my cleric.

[ainmosni]

Casters have no trouble pulling their weight in present epics without death spells. They can't solo without running out of SP in most situations, but they can certainly pull their weight.

Acid Rain cast on 3-4 mobs does a tremendous amount of DPS, and on Lamannia nuking without metamagics is cheap and sustainable for a long time. (Non-meta'ed spells do a lot more damage post MOTU than on present live).

you do realize this makes wizards completely obsolete, right? you're a smart guy, i like your opinions and stuff that i read,are more immunities really the answer?

every class has it's positives and negatives, but they're all pretty balanced in the current game; with this change, wizards in epic content will have nothing to make them more appealing than a sorcerer. nothing! i can't think of a single reason why anyone should stay a wizard at all. this doesnt nerf wizards- it turns them into the Deepwood Sniper of arcanes.

[Jsbeer]

every class has it's positives and negatives, but they're all pretty balanced in the current game; with this change, wizards in epic content will have nothing to make them more appealing than a sorcerer.

Back to CC focus wizards it is then.............

TBH This is absolutely Turbine's fault for letting TR spell penetration benefits get so large AND allowing elves to get an additional 4 spell pen. (I know elves needed some buffs but in a D20 system, in combination with TR benefits this is too much).*

If the possible range of spell pen was less (since a multi-TR can have up to 9 more Spell Pen than a first life, and add 4 more for Elves) they could set reasonable SR for mobs. As it is now, allow non-TRs to be able to inst-kill with a reasonable chance of beating spell pen, say even 25%, would mean a multi-TR elf wizard could hit 100% of the time....


* Given this situation, which is very similar to issues with armour class why not use the same 'fix' that was done for that. I know this may not be ideal, but is still a lot better than what is happening now...

[anto_capone]

Oh look, its the old epic ward that everyone hated except 3 people!

Let's celebrate by reading 20 pages of release notes, full of changes to the game! Now we can all unlearn what we have learned over the past years and feel useless until we TR, respec, and regear! What joy!

One step forward, two steps back; just like climbing a ladder in this game hehehe