Feedback: Magister

[soulaeon]

Perhaps they could include a new 'tier' of summons once your caster level reaches 21+. Same mobs as MS-9, but their level is cranked up to match yours. That way your summons would still be useful, rather than being a waste of a spell slot in epics.

Pretty sad that a random wolf out in king's forest can tear a hezrou apart in seconds.

Alternately, they could instead provide some sort of buff for the group or for their master.

[legendlore]

a bit late to the party, but it's by now I've gotten to the higher levels of the magister destiny and got some questions;

I picked up max ranks in the null-magic line (guard/strike) but I noticed though that undead creatures seems to be immune to the ability (regardless of name color). This seems pretty strange to me, undead are beings reanimated by magic they should be vulnerable to anti-magic attacks if anything. But I can only guess that it's coded as an enchantment effect since undead seems to be entirely immune to it. Drow priestesses are also able to sacrifice and enter their avatar of Lolth mode when null-magiced (guess this could be argued as not casting a spell, but it sure seems pretty magical to me). I'm also guessing that the null magic doesn't stop spell-like inherent abilities of creatures? Fire reavers cast fireballs even when under the null-magic curse, so I'm guessing it's a spell like ability to them and they're thus not affected? Are all these intended by design? The undead one seems particularly strange to me.

The second is what counts as offensive spells regarding the spell school augmentation ability? I had hopped I could lower the saves of enemies with my death aura but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. Isn't death aura considered an offensive spell when using this ability? Or does it simply only have a chance lower saves when initially cast and not every damage tik? (As an related question does shiradi champion abilities work in the same way, regarding adding additional effects to spells?).

[svinja]

Here's my problem with this destiny. My main characters are a PM wizard (switching between magister and draconic), tank paladin (LD / sentinel) and wis/str monk (LD / GMoF).

On my non-wizard characters, the "if you want 5-6 stat points, you won't have much left" isn't a problem.

- The paladin, who isn't a DC-based character, doesn't really suffer from having only 49-52 STR depending on tank/dps mode. I can still hit mobs just fine. Game mechanics aren't forcing me to max my STR. If I really need more I can buff myself for 10 more points. That is simply enough in my experience. And I certainly don't need to max CON in sentinel - I believe I have 0 points in it.

- On my monk, in LD it's the same thing. In GMoF, I am not forced to put 6 points in wisdom, because my stunning fist is already at 65 DC without putting anything in wisdom. My other DCs are quite high too (except for QP, which is too low for EE, but this is fine, as it's a very short cooldown basically free instakill). Monks can simply achieve much higher DCs than arcanes, and their abilties are free, so maxing wisdom isn't necessary.

- Now take a pale master. I stand at only 54 DC necro. I could increase it to 55 if I traded for a +4 tome. Maybe 56 if I TRed into a drow and got a litany. This would still be rather inefficient on EE, except against mobs with bad saves, like drow (I'm not even going to go into the whole SR thing which basically makes TRing a wizard mandatory, as it has been beaten to death, but let's just say it leaves you with even less points after taking +3 spell pen). I simply MUST take the int points. If I drop down to 51 DC, I might as well not play a wizard at all. The additional problem is the lack of a secondary school talent in magister - you need to focus on only one school.

I tested DI vs magister in epic elite Don't Drink the Water. I was actually both more SP and time efficient in DI limiting myself to only damage spells and draconic abilities (and buffs, of course), than in Magister using whatever I considered most effective in each situation. This is on a class whose main advantage are DCs, and a character built and geared for DCs. This leads me to believe a sorcerer in DI destiny would be at least twice as effective as my wizard, but I don't have one to test this.Now imagine dropping a further 3 dc points. Might as well remove the necro spells from my action bars. When the sorc playstyle is more effective even on wizard character, that isn't very encouraging.

This is why the "if you take stat points you don't get much else" hits wizards much, much harder than most builds. Obviously, this is not going to be changed. But that's not the problem. Wizards only having 4-6 epic points to play around with in reality - fine. But to make it worse, both potentially useful lines in magister destiny have an insanely high point cost. The "right side" tree has +3+3+3 for NINE more points to reach the +3 caster level - which is not exactly an overpowered talent. The "left side" antimagic tree is not as bad with requirements, but you need to put many points in it anyway for it to do anything. This is the main problem with this tree. You can't just take one of these talents for a few talent points.

You may have noticed I have ignored the existence of the summoning and the sigil tree, the ward tree is simply lame and I hate summons, I would prefer all summons to be removed from DDO as I find them annoying, so I am not exactly the right person to talk about them.

Verdict:
- INT, DC, spell pen and +2 saves (due to progression) are basically spoken for due to high mob saves/sr, especially the saves. This leaves very few points.
- Nullmagic and school mastery lines cost a huge amount of points that you simply don't have
- sigils and summons are lame, don't even buff them, get rid of them and give us something cooler
- nullmagic is badly designed, 15% save debuff is badly designed, the small cooldown reduction is not that useful
- the destiny sorely lacks a "secondary school specialization" talent with 2 points for 2 DC in a secondary school, so you can target weak saves, which would help with the saves being so over the top for many mobs
- overall, magister is a destiny with a +stat line (like any), 1 tier2 talent and 1 tier3 talent. I can't be the only one who sees it that way currently.
- I only use it because I don't have enough past lives so I benefit from being able to twist in +5 spell pen while keeping the +3 dc talent, this is only possible as magister

[Nitesco]

Magister should offer the highest general DC to Archmages. PM's should get a few more DC than Archmage in Necromancy, but AM's should have most other DC's at least +1 more than PM's. Otherwise you get what you have now, there's just no point in running a non-PM wizard OR taking the 'Wizardly' ED if you care about DC's. A PM is actually a better generalist in most cases than the actual PrE that's designed to be, in the ED that's designed for general Wizardry.

[svinja]

Magister should offer the highest general DC to Archmages. PM's should get a few more DC than Archmage in Necromancy, but AM's should have most other DC's at least +1 more than PM's. Otherwise you get what you have now, there's just no point in running a non-PM wizard OR taking the 'Wizardly' ED if you care about DC's. A PM is actually a better generalist in most cases than the actual PrE that's designed to be, in the ED that's designed for general Wizardry.

So you're suggesting to pigeon hole wizards into their main schools even more, even though that's one of the main problems currently? And you are suggesting a nerf to archmages relative to pale masters thinking it's a buff? Do you even play a wizard? How much EE have you done on him? Have you played both AM and PM?

AM and PM should have roughly the same max DCs in everything just like they do now, the AM main advantage are SLAs (such as Web), the PM main advantage are undead form/immunities, DC advantages are not needed. The spell school specialization already pigeon holes wizards in a ******** way and this should be fixed, let's not suggest to make it even worse. This is why I suggested a secondary specialization being added.

[Nitesco]

So you're suggesting to pigeon hole wizards into their main schools even more, even though that's one of the main problems currently? And you are suggesting a nerf to archmages relative to pale masters thinking it's a buff? Do you even play a wizard? How much EE have you done on him? Have you played both AM and PM?

No I'm saying if you're a specialist, then you should be head and shoulders in DC above a generalist in the school you have chosen to specialize. The fact that Necromancy is the ultimate easy-button in most content, should make up for lagging DC's in other schools. PM's still get equal or better DC's in CC, as well as having better Necro DC's.

AM and PM should have roughly the same max DCs in everything just like they do now, the AM main advantage are SLAs (such as Web), the PM main advantage are undead form/immunities, DC advantages are not needed. The spell school specialization already pigeon holes wizards in a ******** way and this should be fixed, let's not suggest to make it even worse. This is why I suggested a secondary specialization being added.

Roughly, but in reality a PM is just that much ahead in almost every department. Now that AM's can't even slot the same +Int gear as a PM makes it even worse. So due to very bad implimentation, AM's should be rebalanced to be definative generalists, especially in synergy with the Magister ED, in a way that they aren't now, even if that means equal general DC's to PM's, with some bonuses in the Magister ED for improving SLA's.

[Vellrad]

So how about adding something useful to magister autogrants?

Compare it to Exalted Angel.
Both destinies are granting the same passive benefits: +1 caster level and 50 spell points per rank. But levels 0-4 of angel grants extra things. I think its time to add something to magister. Not something overpowered or too good to be true. For example:
tier 0 stays with nothing
tier 1 adds lesser shattermantle to melee and ranged attacks
tier 2 clicky: adds 1 to spell penetration checks for duration of 10 seconds. Cooldown 5 minutes, cost 20SP
tier 3 lesser shattermantle upgraded to standard shattermantle
tier 4 clicky upgraded to +2 for 15 seconds
tier 5 is awesome already

[SealedInSong]

So how about adding something useful to magister autogrants?

Compare it to Exalted Angel.
Both destinies are granting the same passive benefits: +1 caster level and 50 spell points per rank. But levels 0-4 of angel grants extra things. I think its time to add something to magister. Not something overpowered or too good to be true. For example:
tier 0 stays with nothing
tier 1 adds lesser shattermantle to melee and ranged attacks
tier 2 clicky: adds 1 to spell penetration checks for duration of 10 seconds. Cooldown 5 minutes, cost 20SP
tier 3 lesser shattermantle upgraded to standard shattermantle
tier 4 clicky upgraded to +2 for 15 seconds
tier 5 is awesome already

These are great ideas.

[soulaeon]

If the Magister auto-grants get improved, so should Draconic, because they are the same (except for the last rank).

Still, the Magister destiny is very convoluted and flat compared to everything else. If just one feat is absent, most of the tree becomes unavailable. Not a problem for wizards, but a huge problem for other classes.
The sigils are not very intereting, and their duration does not seem like they are worth the cost.

[Nitesco]

Just thinking about this again, it would be nice for Magister to grant access to the Feat prereqs for one SLA and be able to develp that SLA within the ED. Make Mental Toughness a prereq for qualifying, then Archmages will at least have a 3rd SLA to play with, even if their DC's are all still lower than a PM. Oh and we need a +8/+3 Int docent in the game, that's not negotiable.

[Devachan]

A wall of text follows, however a search of the forums reveals little about magister augmentation that is supported by in-game testing, so I thought I should post my results. I have tested Magister Necromancy Augmentation in-game over the past few days (early Feb 2013) and my testing report is below. All of the conclusions are observations from actual testing on live and I have made a comment where something is untested. So I can assert the below with some confidence.

High level conclusions in case you can't be bothered reading the rest:

1) The first overall conclusion is that it pretty much works as described/advertised but there are some quirks.
2) The second conclusion is that the 15% proc rate combined with the spells available to make it proc makes it quite difficult to use as a reliable debuff. In contrast, Nullmagic Strike can be made to proc reliably (with the past life wizzie missile), and is thus situationally useful.
3) The -5 to fort saves does proc off most necromancy spells, but very disappointingly it will not proc of each tick of Death Aura and won't proc on Negative Energy Burst.
4) There is no graphical animation to show when the debuff has landed - instead you need to check combat log or the examine panel. This reduces its utility even further.

In summary - a disappointment and not something I think one can build around to claw back another 5 DC in the losing battle to beat EE fort saves in the High Road and Epic Gianthold.

Testing Results

1) The -5 to fort saves does proc off most necromancy spells. There are 35 arcane necromancy spells and 3 pale master SLAs. I tested the three SLAs and 28 of the spells before deciding that it works and I wouldn't test the remaining spells.

2) It will only proc on the initial casting of a spell. Every tick of Death Aura or Burning Blood does not give a separate 15% roll, nor does the Slimy Doom variant of Contagion. The first tick does give a chance on Burning Blood and Slimy Doom, so I have included it as 'working' in the list below for those spells. I expect this is the same for Lesser Death Aura and Death Aura, however it's pretty useless on that basis, so I have listed it as not-working for those two spells (plus I didn't get a confirmed proc for LDA and DA, whereas I did for Burning Blood and contagion).

3) The 15% chance for a proc applies even if the target saves against the spell and even if the target is immune to the spell. So for example, Halt Undead can still produce a proc on non-undead. Finger of Death can produce a proc on undead.

4) Effectiveness of SLAs (working/not working):
- Necrotic Touch
- Necrotic Bolt
- Necrotic Blast

Re: Necrotic Touch - I couldn't get it to proc, however I didn't test this one much. You can't target undead with Necrotic Touch (but can with Bolt and Blast), so I had less opportunities to test Touch. I wouldn't be surprised if someone posted and said they had managed to get Necrotic Touch to work.

5) Effectiveness of arcane necromancy spells (working/untested but assumed to work/not working):
- 1st: Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, Disrupt Undead, Cause Fear
- 2nd: Ghoul Touch, Blindness, Scare, Command Undead, False Life, Lesser Death Aura, Spawn Screen
- 3rd: Ray of Exhaustion, Halt Undead
- 4th: Contagion, Bestow Curse, Burning Blood, Fear, Enervation, Negative Energy Burst, Death Aura
- 5th: Symbol of Pain, Waves of Fatigue
- 6th: Necrotic Ray, Circle of Death, Symbol of Fear, Undeath to Death, Create Undead
- 7th: Finger of Death, Waves of Exhaustion, Control Undead, Symbol of Weakness
- 8th: Symbol of Death, Horrid Wilting
- 9th: Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee

** Note that I was watching out for nullmagic strike as well - it would proc consistently with the magister fort debuff, except nullmagic strike does not proc on undead. The combat log shows: (Combat): you hit Fallow Ghoul with Nullmagic Disjunction and (Combat): you help Fallow Ghoul with Nullmagic Strike.. The examine panel for the undead does not show the nullmagic debuff even after this appears in the combat log. [I didn't test it on spell-casting undead, however I bet it is also broken with them.]


6) Regarding the spells where it doesn't work:
- False Life, Spawn Screen and Create Undead (no surprises there)
- Lesser Death Aura and Death Aura (as mentioned, it probably does work, but only on the initial tick--in the same way as Burning Blood--which is disappointing to say the least).


Analysis and Implications

Stating the obvious here, however 15% chance is really quite low. If necromancy had something like chain missiles or the wizzie past life wizzie clickie, where you could get 10x or 5x chances to proc from a single cast, then 15% could be quite useful. The lack of these, and the fact it won't proc from Burning Blood or Aura ticks means that landing a proc with confidence is disappointingly slow. The chance to proc from successive casts is roughly as follows:

Cumulative chance to proc:

- 1st cast: 15%
- 2nd cast or sooner: 28%
- 3rd: 39%
- 4th: 48%
- 5th: 56%
- 6th: 62%
- 7th: 68%
- 8th: 73%
- 9th: 77%
- 10th: 80%
- 11th: 83%
- 12th: 86%
- etc.

So a necromancer requires 12 casts to reach 85% confidence of landing a proc. 5 casts is enough to produce a debuff more than half the time. Nothing to get excited about here, indeed it's a bit depressing. For me this rules out the approach of prepping single targets for Finger of Death (using say a cycle of Necro Touch/Bolt/Blast/Necrotic Ray/Cause Fear). You'd spend 10 seconds cycling through those spells and get -2 to saves from shaken from Cause Fear, another -2 from the necrotic ray neg levels, but still only 56% chance of a further -4 from the magister debuff. If it were 85% for a -8.. yeah I might spend the time, but not for 56% - especially while being hammered by EE mobs.

After realising the above, I figured I could try a probabilistic approach to using it. i.e. spam a few cheap AOEs on a group and then use finger of death to pick off any mobs that had been debuffed. The problem is, there is no visual to show the debuff, so you need to check whether it has landed via the combat log or via the examine panel for the monster in question. This is really annoying and makes it a lot less useful.

That said, this is still probably the most effective way to try to use this debuff. Unfortunately, cheap necro AOEs are pretty limited:

- Necrotic Blast (no SP cost, but slow casting animation, doesn't benefit from quicken)
- Scare (10 sp, spherical AOE, 2.5 secs cooldown, shaken procs on save for -2 to saves for 12 secs). This is actually pretty good however when mobs don't save vs. the fear effect they will run off, which makes Circle or Wail likely to miss them.
- Symbol of Pain (15 sp, useful for the additional debuff on the rare occasion it lands, plus the extra chance to proc. 40 secs cooldown makes it of limited use).

The rest are too expensive in my view:
- Fear, Halt Undead, Waves of Fatigue, Symbol of Weakness (20 sp)
- Symbol of Fear, Undeath to Death (35 sp)
- Waves of Exhaustion, Control Undead (40 sp)
- Symbol of Death (45 sp) and Horrid Wilting costs around this too I guess.
- Wail (50 sp)
- Pity NEB doesn't work because that would be one we might actually want to cast for its own effect instead of just casting to fish for procs.

So... if one were to drop Necrotic Blast, Scare, Necrotic Blast on a group of say 4 mobs you would have the following chance to land the fort debuff:

no mobs: 14%
at least 1 mob: 86%
at least 2 mobs: 51%
at least 3 mobs: 17%
all 4 mobs: 2%

You can also land shaken for another -2 if the mobs save vs. Scare (I expect mobs would save a lot if you need to be debuffing them like this).

So Necrotic Blast/Scare/Necrotic Blast would land a -7 debuff to fort saves on 1 mob in a group of 4 about 86% of the time. Not great, but also not too bad for a cost of 10 spell points and 5 seconds prep. If only we could see which of the mobs had been debuffed instead of spending another 5 seconds cycling through examine to work it out (and by which time, the shaken debuff is close to wearing out).

If we have time to prep for the encounter, we could add a Symbol of Pain for a 4th chance to proc (plus a lowish chance of a further -4 to saves if the Symbol lands):

no mobs: 7%
at least 1 mob: 93%
at least 2 mobs: 66%
at least 3 mobs: 28%
all 4 mobs: 5%

Finally, if you wanted to burn more SP, you could use a Circle of Death as a 5th spell and for more debuffs:

So it would be: Symbol of Pain/Necrotic Blast/Scare/Necrotic Blast/Circle of Death

The Circle would hopefully pick off at least the one that was 93% already debuffed by -4. Any survivors would take a further 1d4 neg levels (for a futher -2 to -8 to fort saves), plus have another 15% shot at landing the magister debuff.

Cost to setup (assuming my current enhancements/magister savings):

Symbol of Pain heightened (24) + Necrotic Blast (0) + Scare (10) + Necrotic Blast (0) + Circle of Death heightened and quickened (47) = total of 81 spell points plus 12-15 secs (?) to get through the cycle

Assuming none are killed by the Circle of Death, survivors ought to be debuffed with Shaken -2, Circle -2 to -8, Symbol of Pain (maybe a further -4, prob not) and 77% chance of two more of the mobs being hit with a further -5 from the magister debuff.

It's a bit depressing really, especially given that Epic GH mobs will have fort saves through the roof and it seems we won't see new gear to boost our DCs. Think I'm going to switch to enchantment focussed pale master in magister and see whether I can get that to work. If not, then its off to TR as a sorc or WF archmage, and go the DPS route, along with the rest of the arcane crowd.

[Typographer]

In ten pages, has anyone actually spoken to the original question?

PLEASE TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE OTHER SUMMONS FROM THIS ED.

[qzzxt]

I agree wholeheartedly that some spell schools in DDO are much more lacking than others, but I don't think this destiny should be expected to make up for those limitations the same way adding more spells to the spell lists would. Not only that, but trying to solve game-wide problems with epic-specific advancement is something we want to avoid.

Also, the Nullmagic abilities, although they definitely have things in common with abjuration spells, were designed more to emphasize the Magister's power to unravel spells and magic itself rather than to suggest an abjuration focus per se. They're also meant to lead up to the Epic Moment, which was purposely created as the ultimate thing a caster could do to protect his or her friends from the very force he or she wields. I don't think I agree that Nullmagic needs alternate versions that suit any of the spell schools specifically- but that's not to say that it couldn't use improvement, which brings me to my next point.


This was actually something I considered at one point, and I don't think it's too late to try it. I'll see if I can rework Nullmagic Strike to proc on melee as well as ranged physical attacks in addition to spells.


That's a thought. I'll look into whether it's feasible to make Call Kindred Being summon something generic if you don't have a spell focus feat. It's a fair point that a great many toys in this tree aren't accessible to anyone but casters.


Here's something I just considered, because all in all I don't think the Spellwarding sigil (spell resistance) is offering a whole lot compared to some of the others. Perhaps it could become, instead, simply the Sigil of Warding: +1 AC and +5 Physical Resistance per rank, for 3 AC and 15 PR at the third rank. This could give a Magister something more meaningful to throw down for melee characters to fight in during a longer battle, and even a melee character might consider twisting it for the defensive benefits, which would further help in making this tree desirable to non-caster classes. Thoughts?

I know this is a little late, but I am new to the forums. Been playing the game for a while and it seems like a "general" version of this tree could be an enhancement to spell resistance. This would emphasize the null-magic aspect of this tree for non-casters. Additionally, a sigil duration increase or a summon like the existing golem could be used as a "generic" summon. And the fact that it occasionally turns on the party could be a result of the player, not having specialized in magic, trying to control magical forces. This would lend itself to a new conjuration summon. maybe something with limited "conjuration" abilities itself like a glass spider with a slow egg laying rate like 1/min or a summoned ooze that splits emphasizing that conjurers have mastered the art of conjuration to the extent that they can control conjuring more than 1 thing at a time while not directly affecting the summon creature infrastructure already in place.

As to the people who tested summons, I understand their low DPS and problems, but their primary purpose is as a spell, not a creature. It has both features of crowd control and damage over time spells kind of like a combination of Otto's Sphere of Dancing and Death Aura. If it can pull agro (great for ranged and caster characters) you essentially get however long it takes to kill your summon worth of you damaging the monster like Otto's Sphere of Dancing but with a variable duration up to 10 minutes. If you pull agro instead (great for melee and defensive character) then you get a damage spell that does 30-40 periodic damage for variable duration up to 10 minutes. Additionally, if you have augment summon and grand summon and 3 previous druid lives you get all stats at +14 which is a huge buff for people interested in casting summons as "pets" or "charmed" monsters. Adding a minimal boost to a spell and not using it as it was intended is just like having a low DC on something like Otto's Sphere of Dancing, standing in it with a low spell power Death Aura, and doing nothing else. It won't do much.

[Inoukchuk]

I know I'm late to the discussion, but as a former PM who TR'd out I have some observations to add.

1) As some have mentioned, the progression in the right 2 trees (stats, which are basically required for Magister and no other tree, and spell schools) are far too expensive and far too narrow.
2) I consider both the summons and the sigils to be entirely wasted and useless. Both individuals and especially groups tend to move constantly and make the already nominal effects of sigils entirely wasted. These would be far better as just group buffs. And pets.... have almost always been underpowered and useless, but especially so in EE content or even higher level EH content. It's not worth the time or SP to summon things generally. Heck, I'm running a druid right now and even with a half decent pet and summons when I lose both I only notice that I don't have to worry about healing anything anymore or maintaining agro. I notice no real loss in power.
3) DC casting has been dead for some time. Some people prefer it that way, cause it's all or nothing and if it works it's deemed too powerful, and if it doesn't it's deemed worthless. As such you need to do 1 of a couple of things: a) make wizards much more useful in this destiny doing non-DC related things (presumably damage and/or buffing, though buffing will not be popular I think) or b) increase DCs, preferably universal so as not to pigeon hole wizards into 1 school. Personally I think either the auto-grants or one of the 2 left lines should be changed to alternate +1 DC to all spells and +1 caster level to all spells. Maybe change the sigils to something more generally useful also, like a series of SLA's (choose a spell of [tier] level and you can now cast that as an SLA for [tier+1] SP and with [tier+1] seconds cooldown). Or optionally... this would be a GREAT place to introduce epic level spells since it seems we won't get them anywhere else. Add a line that grants a (20+tier) level spell at each tier.
4) The real comparison here isn't to DI, it's to Shiradi. Shiradi doesn't require DCs. In difficult content it's generally better at both killing and controlling than either of the arcane destinies (yes, I'm aware DI is superior at killing in easy content) for an arcane caster, which tells you something is broken (either Shiradi is too good or the others are too bad, or likely both)
5) there is far too much pigeon-holing. A wizard (even a PM, but especially an AM) should be a generalist, forcing them into 1 school is inherently bad.

As it stands this tree is only viable for a DC caster, and since DC casters aren't really viable, that leaves this dead.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head, nothing I've dwelled on long enough to give my own full idea for a revised ED... though I might do that too =)

[Inoukchuk]

Ok, first crack, I'll propose some changes to Magister:

Core (auto-grant abilities):
Level 1: add stance "Mastermind": when stance is active once/second when a target saves against one of your spells gain an +1 to all DCs for 10 seconds. Stacks up to your magister level times.
Level 3: add stance "Soul stripper": when stance is active gain half your Magister level (round up) to spell penetration. Once/second when a fail a spell penetration roll gain an additional +1 to spell penetration for 10 seconds. Stacks up to your magister level times.
Level 5: add stance "Destroyer": when stance is active gain 15% to all spell damage and reduce all meta-magic costs by 1

Column 1:
remove all Sigils and arcane tempest
Tier 1 (2ap): Choose a level 1 arcane spell. You may cast this spell as an SLA for 2 SP and with a cooldown of 2 seconds. If it is a buff add 5 to your caster level.
Tier 2 (2ap): Choose a level 2 arcane spell. You may cast this spell as an SLA for 3 SP and with a cooldown of 3 seconds. If it is a buff add 5 to your caster level.
Tier 3 (2ap): Choose a level 3 arcane spell. You may cast this spell as an SLA for 4 SP and with a cooldown of 4 seconds. If it is a buff add 5 to your caster level.
Tier 4 (2ap): Choose a level 4 arcane spell. You may cast this spell as an SLA for 5 SP and with a cooldown of 5 seconds. If it is a buff add 5 to your caster level.
Tier 5 (2ap): Choose a level 5 arcane spell. You may cast this spell as an SLA for 6 SP and with a cooldown of 6 seconds. If it is a buff add 5 to your caster level.
Tier 6 (2ap): Arcane Tempest (requires tier 5 SLA) - Make duration 30 seconds, add +200 MRR and PRR for duration

Column 2:
Tier 1 (1ap): Imperceptible Casting (leave as is)
Tier 2 (1ap): Null Magic Soul - Gain 10/20/30 MRR.
Tier 4 (1ap): Lesser Null Magic Arua (requires Null Magic Soul) - enemy casters within your aura suffer 10/20/30% ASF
Tier 5 (1ap): Improved Null Magic Soul (requires Lesser Null Magic Arua) - gain SR equal to your character level +10/20/30; this stacks with any innate SR you may possess
Tier 6 (1ap): Null Magic Arua (requires Improved Null Magic Soul) - your aura now grants "enemies within your aura are subject to a dispelling effect. Every 3 seconds there is a 10% chance for each spell effect on them to be dispelled and for them to be unable to cast for 3 seconds"

Column 3:
Call Kindred Being: Change the summons to some sort of archon, like what FvS gets, with a differing effect for each school
Grand Summoner: Add that summons/pets gain twice your character level in PRR/MRR


Column 4: remove [spell school] Augmentation. [Spell School] Familiarity will require [Spell School] Specialization

Goals of the above:
The core changes will make a caster more viable in any given situation without over balancing them since they must choose a stance.

Column 1 adds some cheaper spell casting for a class that gets fewer SP, more spells for a class that doesn't get many, or nice buffs for a melee class. Also buffs the lackluster tempest power.

Column 2 refocuses on magical defenses; very viable line for a melee also. These 2 columns should open the destiny more for non-arcane casters while adding powerful (but expensive in the case of null magic line) options for arcane casters as well.

Column 3 was decent except for the summons abilities, which I tried to make attractive by making pets more durable

column 4 I tried to reduce the overall cost of the tree by removing the least attractive ability

Column 5 I was tempted to reduce cost but couldn't see that as viable without being over powered. Hopefully the othe changes in the tree make this column less required.

Overall: This should add some missing power by helping to make DC casters more viable, adding some diversity, and making the ED more generically useful for off-classes.

[PsychoBlonde]

3) DC casting has been dead for some time.

Snerk, no it isn't. There are several DC wizards in my guild who dominate the entire game with ease, one who runs an 82 int. I have a DC caster as well, a Druid, with 70 evocation DC's. Her earthquake is so effective that I usually don't bother with most of my boosts that can push it into an effective 75+ DC range. So no, DC casting is not "dead".

[Angelic-council]

Snerk, no it isn't. There are several DC wizards in my guild who dominate the entire game with ease, one who runs an 82 int. I have a DC caster as well, a Druid, with 70 evocation DC's. Her earthquake is so effective that I usually don't bother with most of my boosts that can push it into an effective 75+ DC range. So no, DC casting is not "dead".

Yes, DC casting is not dead at all. PMs don't even need a DC boost. They can achieve high DC already and thanks to the level drain, argumentation, they are very powerful in EEs.