Feedback: Shadowdancer

[SableShadow]

Edit: some things, no matter how funny I think they are in my head, should just stay there.

[sephiroth1084]

Escape notice (min level: 20) (1 ranks - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 1min) Triggers diplomacy effect that use hide skill instead

Which, as far as I know, does nothing if you are the only person around for enemies to aggro on--it reduces your aggro and causes enemies to look elsewhere, but doesn't remove you from the aggro list. It's good, and useful, but probably won't help much if you're soloing (either a whole quest, or scouting ahead of your group).

While I understand what you mean I think your picking holes in a really good ability.

How so? I'm merely asking for it to not generate too much aggro--rogues typically ensure their sneak attacks keep landing by selecting their targets, such as by making sure to hit stuff that is already focused on someone else hitting them harder (or seemingly so), but if you start hitting unaggroed, or lightly aggroed targets, you quickly lose SA and likely get smushed. If this is going to be hitting an area, it's likely to be affecting enemies that haven't been otherwise threatened significantly. If you start drawing the aggro of a whole group of enemies, the Epic Moment starts to look less attractive.

I'd like it to give you a big threat reduction while active, or possibly even cause your attacks to generate zero threat. It's not like it lasts for a long time.

And plz remove Shadow Walk seriously talking....
I believe all Devs know that how lame this spell is and how cheap the scroll is.

1.Its not too hard to reach the UMD requirement as a rogue/SA dps.
2.And even so barely anyone is using it due to the dim vision...it will only get u killed or slow u down under most situation seriously and experienced talking here.
3.I know its faster but for most players it will only get u stuck or hit obstacles or make u running the long way instead of short cut, unless u knew the place extremely well so that u could walk it through with ur eyes closed.....not to mention uncertain factors as mobs on the way.Just look around, only new players r using it and theres a reason for this.
4.If ur thinking about ToD shadow kiting its not really a good idea for this.It will be much worse to miss a shadow due to the vision than just using haste.Not to mention u need to range shadows to get aggro then the effect will break.They wont catch u if u run around pillars properly with a haste.(And after all u can scroll it if u really wanna use it when u kite as a rogue/SA dps...it would be ridiculously worthless as a autogrants in epic destiny)
5.Plz dont simply bring in anything with a "shadow" in the name and think its cool...its not cool in this case.


So plz remove shadow walk, make next 2 tiers lower tier and add "Shadow Dance" to tier V

PS: I dont like DD clicky as well cuz I have tons of scrolls in stock but I guess most ppl love it....

They Shadow Walk and Dimension Door were suggested (and subsequently added), because they are "in theme" and nifty, small bonuses. The Shadowdancer prestige class in pen and paper's defining ability is being able to step through shadows (short-range teleports), which DDoor and Shadow Walk harken to.

While, yes, some characters can get the scrolls (DD scrolls aren't sold at vendors) and UMD them, this ED is not only aimed at rogues, and even with UMD, the abilities are nice to have. They would only need to be removed if they were replacing something, which they probably aren't, and both spells are useful in several places in the game.

[Ovrad]

Which, as far as I know, does nothing if you are the only person around for enemies to aggro on--it reduces your aggro and causes enemies to look elsewhere, but doesn't remove you from the aggro list. It's good, and useful, but probably won't help much if you're soloing (either a whole quest, or scouting ahead of your group).

Correct, it's a diplo effect so it only works if there are party members nearby. Also it doesn't do anything against any enemies that can't be diplo'ed.

[ReveredCat]

They Shadow Walk and Dimension Door were suggested (and subsequently added), because they are "in theme" and nifty, small bonuses. The Shadowdancer prestige class in pen and paper's defining ability is being able to step through shadows (short-range teleports), which DDoor and Shadow Walk harken to.

While, yes, some characters can get the scrolls (DD scrolls aren't sold at vendors) and UMD them, this ED is not only aimed at rogues, and even with UMD, the abilities are nice to have. They would only need to be removed if they were replacing something, which they probably aren't, and both spells are useful in several places in the game.

Till this time today man...ur talking about PnP here....Its already broken the basic DnD rules and made very far into common MMORPG.So dont bring those textbook stuff here plz lets face the truth and make something practical that ppl wont whine about.

Most rogues or SA dps who take this destiny should have UMD otherwise he's a noob.In end games, even pure monks can use heal scrolls, not to mention fighters who can always have some rogue splashes and I think epic destiny should be supporting end games more than anything else.

And just forget about all these pretty words and look down to the truth: no one is using shadow walk.Few guys using them they just ended up dead(In ToD part2), cuz it needs too much skills and luck to make good use of them.The little speed boost is not worth it.

I didnt say it should be just removed.I mean anything else is better than it.
e.g. some 2min displacement clickies would be popular enough.Even 2min haste clickies would do(actually haste ability was used in NWN epic shadowdancer known as "Blinding Speed").

If shadow walk really goes into live, the fact will turn out to be that it rarely gets used and most ppl dont need it at all.It would be a shame for a Tier III destiny autogrants.
Anything else with minimal boost will do and replace shadow walk thats what Im talking about.

[oradafu]

Till this time today man...ur talking about PnP here....Its already broken the basic DnD rules and made very far into common MMORPG.So dont bring those textbook stuff here plz lets face the truth and make something practical that ppl wont whine about.

Most rogues or SA dps who take this destiny should have UMD otherwise he's a noob.In end games, even pure monks can use heal scrolls, not to mention fighters who can always have some rogue splashes and I think epic destiny should be supporting end games more than anything else.

And just forget about all these pretty words and look down to the truth: no one is using shadow walk.Few guys using them they just ended up dead(In ToD part2), cuz it needs too much skills and luck to make good use of them.The little speed boost is not worth it.

I didnt say it should be just removed.I mean anything else is better than it.
e.g. some 2min displacement clickies would be popular enough.Even 2min haste clickies would do(actually haste ability was used in NWN epic shadowdancer known as "Blinding Speed").

If shadow walk really goes into live, the fact will turn out to be that it rarely gets used and most ppl dont need it at all.It would be a shame for a Tier III destiny autogrants.
Anything else with minimal boost will do and replace shadow walk thats what Im talking about.

I can see where you're coming from. The few times that I've used Shadow Walk, it can be a bit awkward to use. On top of that, the spell disappears as soon as you interact with anything (like Invisibility). Maybe if Shadow Walk was changed to something called Improved Shadow Walk (I'm just pulling the name out of my butt, nothing to do with pnp). This Improved Shadow Walk will not instantly disappear when you interact with objects or attack, but disappears let's say 5 seconds later. This will allow players to pull levers or open doors with a chance to leave the area before drawing aggro. This would make this portion of the ability situational better and more likely to be used in the game. And yes, it's stepping a bit on the HIPS ability too, but HIPS has been a hit from feedback (we want more!).

[sephiroth1084]

Correct, it's a diplo effect so it only works if there are party members nearby. Also it doesn't do anything against any enemies that can't be diplo'ed.

Not sure if you're merely agreeing with me and clarifying my statement or arguing a point here.

Till this time today man...ur talking about PnP here....Its already broken the basic DnD rules and made very far into common MMORPG.So dont bring those textbook stuff here plz lets face the truth and make something practical that ppl wont whine about.

Flavor is important if it isn't detracting from mechanics.

Most rogues or SA dps who take this destiny should have UMD otherwise he's a noob.In end games, even pure monks can use heal scrolls, not to mention fighters who can always have some rogue splashes and I think epic destiny should be supporting end games more than anything else.

This destiny is aimed at rogues, yes, but also some fighters, monks, rangers and maybe some casters as well. Perhaps druids. Not everyone can UMD the scrolls. You can't buy DDoor scrolls anywhere but on the AH.

And just forget about all these pretty words and look down to the truth: no one is using shadow walk.Few guys using them they just ended up dead(In ToD part2), cuz it needs too much skills and luck to make good use of them.The little speed boost is not worth it.

I use Shadow Walk frequently on my monk any time I'm running and not killing stuff on the way (often when I'm sneaking). My biggest complaint with the spell is that it can be hard to see your surroundings, which is adjustable to a degree with gamma settings (and something I'd like improved upon).

I didnt say it should be just removed.I mean anything else is better than it.
e.g. some 2min displacement clickies would be popular enough.Even 2min haste clickies would do(actually haste ability was used in NWN epic shadowdancer known as "Blinding Speed").

We already have a Displacement clicky in the ED.

If shadow walk really goes into live, the fact will turn out to be that it rarely gets used and most ppl dont need it at all.It would be a shame for a Tier III destiny autogrants.
Anything else with minimal boost will do and replace shadow walk thats what Im talking about.

DDoor will get used often, and you're still getting +1d6 SA damage in addition.

[ReveredCat]

This destiny is aimed at rogues, yes, but also some fighters, monks, rangers and maybe some casters as well. Perhaps druids. Not everyone can UMD the scrolls. You can't buy DDoor scrolls anywhere but on the AH.

1.Since its aimed at rogues, rogues' benefits should be considered first priority compared to other builds.

2.It would be ridiculous when a rogue wakes up one morning and find out other classes r taking more benefits from a destiny that made for rogue style(which is whats happening now including evasion, at least give some minimal bonus as leap of faith in healing destiny).

3.No one mentioned DDoor there.

I use Shadow Walk frequently on my monk any time I'm running and not killing stuff on the way (often when I'm sneaking). My biggest complaint with the spell is that it can be hard to see your surroundings, which is adjustable to a degree with gamma settings (and something I'd like improved upon).

1.Thats just u.From my playing experiences, among toons that have access to shadow walk, less than 5% players use this spell/scroll even if they can.

2.Dont make assumptions.Its quite not likely that they will have time to adjust such a unpopular spell especially when its working as intended(dim vision as original).Even if they change it and make it useful(less than 1% chance this would happen), rogues who can scroll it still gets nearly zero benefit which is so unfair in a rogue style destiny.

3.Stop thinking for ur own good and start to think for the 95% players.Most players r like this: read about the 50% speed and tried shadow walk before for 2-3 times, found it only slows u down or confuses u, then they just totally gave up in the years of playing after, especially when no "Vets" r suggesting them to use it.
As far as I can see here, ur the only one recommending shadow walk strongly.If it goes to live and ppl who r taking shadowdancer in which 95% of them dont like shadow walk, find a clicky that they ill never use in their Tier3 autogrants, how disappointed will they feel?Can u take the blame by then?

My own experience here.(I used shadow walk myself once upon a time when I started to play.I didnt like it but still kept it on my hotbar.A year after I found out I never ever touched it...then I just removed it.For an experienced player u need to make sure ur eyes open all the time.This dim vision is really not necessary since it will break on attacking/interacting and only 10% more speed then haste.Even there r few situations it may fit, the distraction due to the rare use is still not worth it.
Haste&invis&displacement combination is like an old revolver right at ur hand for over 30 years so that they r rdy to go any time even before u notice, like a reflection.Shadow walk is like a rifle that is not really made by mature mechanic and will jam now and then and get urself killed on some key points.)

We already have a Displacement clicky in the ED.

Sincerely I cant see it.Is it coming on the way or u didnt even read the ED well enough before ur wrote these.

DDoor will get used often, and you're still getting +1d6 SA damage in addition.

Again no one mentioned about DDoors.kinda trolling arent u?I only mentioned DDoor in my original post's "PS:" part saying it was not my favorite but never ever I said it should be removed cuz its useful, not like shadow walk.
Everyone's cool with SA damage I cant see whats the relationship with the topic of shadow walk.No one ever said u should remove the whole Tier.Its just a replacement between one useless clicky and another useful one(say haste or displacement or anything else practical).

u talked like a politician Ferr~avoiding topics that u cant argue with and confusing concepts by mixing them up...Do u really have to come down to this for a spell like shadow walk....I dont know what to say
I never thought I needed to say this much on something like shadow walk, such an unpopular spell that I considered most ppl would have similar opinions.But I felt like I was explaining DDO basic to a noob...forgive me for this but its really clear as sky for a spell not needed, isnt it.

No further discussion for me on shadow walk topic its really stupid.If u still wanna go further lets see to the truth.So ask for a vote between shadow walk/haste/displacement/something else as a clicky in autogrants u will find ur answer there.The need for the majority.

[Lighti]

There is nothing wrong with having Shadow walk in this destiny, its not great but it adds flavour and is useful. Any time you have to run a long distance simply hit it and go. People dont use it often as people dont know about it or forget about it.

Improved Invisibility grants displacement when it ends.

[ReveredCat]

There is nothing wrong with having Shadow walk in this destiny, its not great but it adds flavour and is useful. Any time you have to run a long distance simply hit it and go. People dont use it often as people dont know about it or forget about it.

Improved Invisibility grants displacement when it ends.

Another one doesnt read others' words well before making a post

Like I said even if its useful, rogues can scroll it themself so its TOTALLY USELESS TO A ROGUE.And its a destiny made for rogue like Ferrum said, so rogues' benefits should be considered first priority.

And just look around, make a list of ur friends' names(urself not included).Ask them for a vote and see who will be using shadow walk, who will not.u will find out the truth.

People dont use it cuz its not worth it.They r not noob who dont know about it or keep forgetting as if they were dumbs. Dont make assumptions for others.

If u have to say ur faster in a safe instance running with shadow walk.Id say Id prefer auto running with haste since its safe anyway~Its a game in a safe instance not a race, no need to bother concentrating on controlling my toon when its half blind for that little speed boost.

After all for fans of shadow walk u can always go get some UMD and scroll it.Its really not necessary to make those who dont wanna use it(which is majority) suffering.
_________________________________
Improved invisibility (required 12 - Prereq: Dark shrouding) (3 ranks - 1 AP): (Active Cooldown: 4min) Turn invisible for 10 seconds. Attacking does not break this effect. After it wears off, you retain partial concealment for a time.

So u think this 10 sec delayed displacement with a 4 mins cooldown is same as a displacement clicky?Maybe casual players think so.
4 mins cool down...10 sec delay...with unknown lasting time for displace(I doubt it would be long), Id rather use gs clickies(1.5 mins effective right away)

For an Epic Destiny Autogrants, it should be serving for end-game or at least helpful enough.Say for a displacement clicky in autogrants it should at least lasts 2 mins and with maybe 5 charges to make it higher priority than gs clickies when u need one.

And u can not choose to dump an autogrants to avoid those abilities u dont like as in the AP system.Plus autogrants can not be twisted so it should be more powerful than Tier1-4 destiny in AP system.
Also nothing is wrong to have Improved invisibility and displacement clickies from autogrants at the time.They r meant for different situations and one can be twisted while the other cant.

[sephiroth1084]

1.Since its aimed at rogues, rogues' benefits should be considered first priority compared to other builds.

2.It would be ridiculous when a rogue wakes up one morning and find out other classes r taking more benefits from a destiny that made for rogue style(which is whats happening now including evasion, at least give some minimal bonus as leap of faith in healing destiny).

If you only rarely use Shadow Walk scrolls, this frees you from having to carry or spend money on them at all (unless you use them a LOT).
Some rogues don't invest in UMD.
Some rogues don't have enough UMD to activate level 6 scrolls reliably.
Some rogues don't have the coin to be buying scrolls a lot.
Some rogues don't want to swap gear whenever they want to use a scroll quickly.
Some rogues feel that it isn't worth using a scroll for getting around a public zone, or for getting through a part of a quest a little bit faster.

3.No one mentioned DDoor there.

I mention DDoor because the tier III ability is worded as giving you a number of clickies of use for either DD or Shadow Walk--you choose which each time you activate it. If you don't ever want to use SW, you can just use DD 5/rest.

You can think of it as Shadowdancer gets a Dimension Door clicky a few times per rest that they can choose to use as Shadow Walk instead. If you aren't complaining about DD, then why complain about the secondary ability attached to that one?

2.Dont make assumptions.Its quite not likely that they will have time to adjust such a unpopular spell especially when its working as intended(dim vision as original).Even if they change it and make it useful(less than 1% chance this would happen), rogues who can scroll it still gets nearly zero benefit which is so unfair in a rogue style destiny.

3.Stop thinking for ur own good and start to think for the 95% players.Most players r like this: read about the 50% speed and tried shadow walk before for 2-3 times, found it only slows u down or confuses u, then they just totally gave up in the years of playing after, especially when no "Vets" r suggesting them to use it.
As far as I can see here, ur the only one recommending shadow walk strongly.If it goes to live and ppl who r taking shadowdancer in which 95% of them dont like shadow walk, find a clicky that they ill never use in their Tier3 autogrants, how disappointed will they feel?Can u take the blame by then?

You tell me to not make assumptions and then in the same breath make a bunch of your own.

Haste&invis&displacement combination is like an old revolver right at ur hand for over 30 years so that they r rdy to go any time even before u notice, like a reflection.Shadow walk is like a rifle that is not really made by mature mechanic and will jam now and then and get urself killed on some key points.)

By the same argument, we don't need Haste, Invisibly or Displacement because we can get those on potions and scrolls that are easily UMD'ed! And every bard, wizard and sorcerer that we run with casts those spells for us. AND there are common clickies on items for those effects. So why put them in an epic destiny?

Sincerely I cant see it.Is it coming on the way or u didnt even read the ED well enough before ur wrote these.

Improved Invisibility grants something like 30 seconds-one and a half minutes of Displacement when the Invisibility ends (I can't recall what the actual duration is). Why don't you try reading the information about the ED before getting your panties in a twist?

Again no one mentioned about DDoors.kinda trolling arent u?I only mentioned DDoor in my original post's "PS:" part saying it was not my favorite but never ever I said it should be removed cuz its useful, not like shadow walk.
Everyone's cool with SA damage I cant see whats the relationship with the topic of shadow walk.No one ever said u should remove the whole

You tried arguing that the tier would feel very disappointing for everyone, while I pointed out that you're still getting +1d6 Sneak Attack and a handful of Dimension Door clickies if you don't like Shadow Walk at all--there are still benefits that people will enjoy, even if they have 0 interest in SW.

u talked like a politician Ferr~avoiding topics that u cant argue with and confusing concepts by mixing them up...Do u really have to come down to this for a spell like shadow walk....I dont know what to say

More like you were too dense to see that I was addressing your points.

-1 for the "politician" and "stupid" comments.

[Lighti]

And just look around, make a list of ur friends' names(urself not included).Ask them for a vote and see who will be using shadow walk, who will not.u will find out the truth.

I know plenty of monks that use there free one

Like I said even if its useful, rogues can scroll it themself so its TOTALLY USELESS TO A ROGUE.And its a destiny made for rogue like Ferrum said, so rogues' benefits should be considered first priority.

To scroll it requires 40 UMD for no fail, that means swaping in items, GH ect for some people when they could just click and go

Its really not necessary to make those who dont wanna use it(which is majority) suffering.

If you dont want to use it dont put it on your bar.

Just because you dont know the potential of it and dont use it doesnt mean others are the same. There are plenty of people out there that take the Faster Sneaking enhancement line both for ease with assinates and to sneak dungeons faster.

Hit shadow walk, go into sneak and sneak something like claw easier.

[Vazok1]

Which, as far as I know, does nothing if you are the only person around for enemies to aggro on--it reduces your aggro and causes enemies to look elsewhere, but doesn't remove you from the aggro list. It's good, and useful, but probably won't help much if you're soloing (either a whole quest, or scouting ahead of your group).

ye true

How so? I'm merely asking for it to not generate too much aggro--rogues typically ensure their sneak attacks keep landing by selecting their targets, such as by making sure to hit stuff that is already focused on someone else hitting them harder (or seemingly so), but if you start hitting unaggroed, or lightly aggroed targets, you quickly lose SA and likely get smushed. If this is going to be hitting an area, it's likely to be affecting enemies that haven't been otherwise threatened significantly. If you start drawing the aggro of a whole group of enemies, the Epic Moment starts to look less attractive.

I'd like it to give you a big threat reduction while active, or possibly even cause your attacks to generate zero threat. It's not like it lasts for a long time.

I see what you mean it would be nice to have a way to remove/reduce it, but in doing so that would also destroy the epic moment for anyone who may want agro or even a rogue who may want to pull agro on something for group/raid tactical reasons.

I can see where you're coming from. The few times that I've used Shadow Walk, it can be a bit awkward to use. On top of that, the spell disappears as soon as you interact with anything (like Invisibility). Maybe if Shadow Walk was changed to something called Improved Shadow Walk (I'm just pulling the name out of my butt, nothing to do with pnp). This Improved Shadow Walk will not instantly disappear when you interact with objects or attack, but disappears let's say 5 seconds later. This will allow players to pull levers or open doors with a chance to leave the area before drawing aggro. This would make this portion of the ability situational better and more likely to be used in the game. And yes, it's stepping a bit on the HIPS ability too, but HIPS has been a hit from feedback (we want more!).

They would draw agro anyway, shadow walk doesn't make you invisible, just faster and displaced. Its haste and displace in a nice 20minute package
But your idea still stands, improved shadow walk that ALSO gives invis would be nice but not necessary, to be honest I already feel happy with this but wouldn't complain at more lol

[sephiroth1084]

I see what you mean it would be nice to have a way to remove/reduce it, but in doing so that would also destroy the epic moment for anyone who may want agro or even a rogue who may want to pull agro on something for group/raid tactical reasons.

At some point the theme of the thing has to come out. Which is more likely to occur, a character with sneak attack not wanting to draw unnecessary aggro, but wanting to use their cool epic moment, or someone with sneak attack wanting to use their cool epic moment to draw aggro?

Having a toggle for what would be an innate aggro reducer makes sense, but the epic moment is, what? 30 seconds a couple of times per quest? You have plenty of time to grab aggro otherwise if you want to, or could use Intimidate. It seems far less desirable for an epic moment in a destiny that grants +6d6 SA damage to suddenly gain you the aggro of a bunch of enemies, because your attacks are suddenly hitting things you and your group aren't focused on.

They would draw agro anyway, shadow walk doesn't make you invisible, just faster and displaced. Its haste and displace in a nice 20minute package
But your idea still stands, improved shadow walk that ALSO gives invis would be nice but not necessary, to be honest I already feel happy with this but wouldn't complain at more lol

Drink a pot/use a scroll/clicky/ability to Invis and then Shadow Walk. Now you have 20 minutes of extra-fast Haste, 20 minutes of Displacement, and 2-15 minutes of Invisibility.

[KielbasaBeta]

Well for the 95% that don't use shadow walk you should. Its not always useful but it really shines in explorer areas when you're running from one rare spawn to another. Its also really nice when you're running water in shroud. I'm sure there are plenty other uses but those are the most common times I find myself using it.

Is shrouding strike really the only way to gain shadow charges? If so it would be really nice if you could gain charges some other way as well. Kind of pointless for oncoming darkness to have a 4 minute cooldown if you can only get 20 charges in 5 minutes and that's if you're lucky enough to use shrouding strike ever time it comes off cooldown.

[threefeetunder]

1.Since its aimed at rogues, rogues' benefits should be considered first priority compared to other builds.

Destinies are not aimed at any class, it's inspired off of them. The 'theme' for shadowdancer is shadowy stuff, so shadow walk fits perfectly.

While it's important to be rogue compatible, the choice wasn't between giving the Destiny +100 damage per hit or this, this was just added as an afterthought, as it fits thematically and was pretty easy to add. You're not missing out on anything.

Yes, the spell could be made a bit more special, like making it grant invisibility as well or not cloud your vision so much and etc, a specific version could be made to make it fit the theme better and be more unique, but in the meantime it's still a nice add.

[ReveredCat]

Some rogues don't invest in UMD.
Some rogues don't have enough UMD to activate level 6 scrolls reliably.
Some rogues don't have the coin to be buying scrolls a lot.
Some rogues don't want to swap gear whenever they want to use a scroll quickly.
Some rogues feel that it isn't worth using a scroll for getting around a public zone, or for getting through a part of a quest a little bit faster.
I mention DDoor because the tier III ability is worded as giving you a number of clickies of use for either DD or Shadow Walk--you choose which each time you activate it. If you don't ever want to use SW, you can just use DD 5/rest.

You can think of it as Shadowdancer gets a Dimension Door clicky a few times per rest that they can choose to use as Shadow Walk instead. If you aren't complaining about DD, then why complain about the secondary ability attached to that one?

You tell me to not make assumptions and then in the same breath make a bunch of your own.
By the same argument, we don't need Haste, Invisibly or Displacement because we can get those on potions and scrolls that are easily UMD'ed! And every bard, wizard and sorcerer that we run with casts those spells for us. AND there are common clickies on items for those effects. So why put them in an epic destiny?

Improved Invisibility grants something like 30 seconds-one and a half minutes of Displacement when the Invisibility ends (I can't recall what the actual duration is). Why don't you try reading the information about the ED before getting your panties in a twist?

You tried arguing that the tier would feel very disappointing for everyone, while I pointed out that you're still getting +1d6 Sneak Attack and a handful of Dimension Door clickies if you don't like Shadow Walk at all--there are still benefits that people will enjoy, even if they have 0 interest in SW.
More like you were too dense to see that I was addressing your points.

-1 for the "politician" and "stupid" comments.

You mad bro?
Now what larry said about u just makes sense to me.
Its bad to be mad here in this thread bro.
Anyway ppl will judge by themselves...noobs will attack me and tell me what I dont know and how ridiculous I was...or Rittz from Khyber doesnt know whats best for assassinate....
Just curious...do u guys know how to Air Assassinate in DDO?

PS: I didnt keep on the discussion cuz I dont have the time...not that I care about rep...Im not really a forums person..so -1 or -10 whatever u like~if it makes u feel better.
And last time I check in Lamannia shadow walk and DDoor r seperated clickies in Tier3 and Tier4.

[Vazok1]

are* you*

[ReveredCat]

Destinies are not aimed at any class, it's inspired off of them. The 'theme' for shadowdancer is shadowy stuff, so shadow walk fits perfectly.

While it's important to be rogue compatible, the choice wasn't between giving the Destiny +100 damage per hit or this, this was just added as an afterthought, as it fits thematically and was pretty easy to add. You're not missing out on anything.

Yes, the spell could be made a bit more special, like making it grant invisibility as well or not cloud your vision so much and etc, a specific version could be made to make it fit the theme better and be more unique, but in the meantime it's still a nice add.

This destiny is aimed at rogues

It was a quote.And I do agree with it.cuz no matter how u deny it, destinies still look like extensions of old classes(some combined though).There r lots abilities in them to help other classes to fit in, but the playing style follows the old class tightly.

The spell is not gonna change.There is no such sweet things happening as far as we can tell.If it gets changed like u said, oh well it will be a bigger change than the autogrants itself.

I do agree the shadowdancer is already perfect.Im just a little greedy since they r just about to decide what clickies to add in autogrants.So I was just trying to stand up and speak for rogues and make some real practical clickies for our own destiny.

[oradafu]

They would draw agro anyway, shadow walk doesn't make you invisible, just faster and displaced. Its haste and displace in a nice 20minute package

Blah! Shows you how much I use the spell, doesn't it? Anyway, like I said, I rarely used it. The only times I've used it was experimenting in Rainbow via sneaking with a rogue and night-time Easter Egg hunting. Besides those two things, I've personally found little use with the spell.

But as others have said, not all abilities need to be winners and D-Door in the same ability makes up for this clunker. I just thought I'd throw an extra idea out there attached to the Shadow Walk.

[threefeetunder]

They would draw agro anyway, shadow walk doesn't make you invisible, just faster and displaced. Its haste and displace in a nice 20minute package

Actually shadow walk is faster then haste (32% increase in speed for haste and 40% for shadow walk).