Feedback: Legendary Dreadnought

[LiquidShadow]

So why don't they just reduce the animation speed of Supreme Cleave to match auto attacks? Or why not just make all the animations have the same attack speed?

It doesn't seem that hard to do. It's just a matter of timing and visual playtesting. I've done similar programming in the Warcraft 3 Map Editor for crying out loud.

But no, instead we get this unexplained nerf for no good reason.

no good reason? barbarian constantly spinning around and doing full dmg with possibility to crit at silly hp cost on heroic lvls is ridiculous. as overpowered as casters in low lvl content.

i wouldnt mind shorter cooldown if it was 10% hp each use instead of flat 10hp then u would think twice before using it 5 times in a 5-10 seconds time frame when surrounded by 10 mobs

[LiquidShadow]

I am primarily a melee (fighter class, or sub-class) user. My only (so far) level 20+ toon is a 19 Ftr/1 Rog. I have purposefully chosen to be a "generalist", being capable of using many different types of weapons; I mostly have TWF builds. I do not have/use "Action Boost" enhancements; I do not (typically) use the various different fighter "tactics" (i.e. trip, sunder, etc.). I personally do not care to use a lot of 'clickies'.

So, as I was looking over the different ED's during the closed beta, it is obvious that "Legendary Dreadnought" is the one ED that is geared towards the Fighter class. But it is my personal opinion that this ED has way too many "tactic" and/or "Action Boost" related items for one such as I.

either u trolling (19ftr/1rog leaves no doubts) or...
og... why u made a fighter then if ur gameplay fits everything EXCEPT fighter.
fighter is about this "tactics" feats u dont use and those "action boosts" that u dont have. it also specialize in at least 1 weapon type...

its like: im gonna make a wizard and i will use only acid blast and fireball - usualy u roll a sorc for this if u know what i mean

this destiny is perfect for fighter and many other melees. one of the best made so far imo

[LeLoric]

Wow guys why are we pushing this into a fighter vs barb debate either class can and will use the dreadnaught destiny as well as the fury of the wild and shadowdancer and others. Let's keep feedback and discussion to dreadnaught related stuff here.

[Shade]

Tested this destiny out a bit, just a quick bug report for now:

Momentum Swing -
It seems to use a new/old? animation, which varies based on race/weapon style.

Some work nice, some work really poorly, some dont work at all. I tested:
Race: Half-Orc
Weapon : Greatsword
Result: Works nice, anim is fairly quick though slower then quarterstaff.

Weapon: Greataxe
Result: Does not work at all. Does a really weird looking short anim, and nothing happens. After some weird dellay later I do SOMETIMES get some numbers, but usually not, very broken. Disapointing since this ED has that nice boost to Greataxes for t6.

Race:
Drow Elf
Weapon: Quarterstaff:
Results: Works VERY nice. Very fast animation, hits are calculated quick.

Post your results guys, we need to check every race and weapon style, so will take a lot of work. Though I think most non-half orc races may use the same animations.

[aerosole]

Volcano's edge (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack: On hit: 100 fire damage. On critical, target takes incineration damage. On Vorpal, target fire vulnerability increased by 100% for 10 seconds. Require kama, knife, sickle or sword
Lightning Mace (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On hit: 100 electrical damage. On critical: gain 15% melee double strike for 6 seconds. On vorpal target elecrtical vulnerability increased by 100%. Requires a club, greatclub, mac, morningstar or quaterstaff.
Anvil of thunder (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On Hit: 100 sonic damage. On critical: Target is dazed for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: Target is stunned for 6 seconds. Requires an axe, hammer or pick.

Cool stuff, similar to monk ki strikes, but much more powerful, and at no cost.

There is no reason not to spam these constantly though, as soon as they are off timer. Maybe except for Anvil, which has a CC chance on vorpal, so there might be a reason to save this for a fresh mob.

I'm a bit biased again mindless button mashing to up dps, since I already have both a monk and a pally. Ki strikes and divine sacrifices are fun to spam the first 200-300 times maybe, but does get old after a while. But then, these look way more powerful and I haven't got the chance to play test them.

Though, out of curiosity, for raw dps and cool proc effects, wouldn't a passive stance similar to Reign in Fatesinger be more effective? After all, there's already a Lay Waste line for tactical knockdowns.

[Shade]

Cool stuff, similar to monk ki strikes, but much more powerful, and at no cost.

There is no reason not to spam these constantly though, as soon as they are off timer. Maybe except for Anvil, which has a CC chance on vorpal, so there might be a reason to save this for a fresh mob.

I'm a bit biased again mindless button mashing to up dps, since I already have both a monk and a pally. Ki strikes and divine sacrifices are fun to spam the first 200-300 times maybe, but does get old after a while. But then, these look way more powerful and I haven't got the chance to play test them.

Though, out of curiosity, for raw dps and cool proc effects, wouldn't a passive stance similar to Reign in Fatesinger be more effective? After all, there's already a Lay Waste line for tactical knockdowns.

There not that mindless. They dont add much damage, but the +100% vuln is petty massive if you have a sorc in your party.

Given the durations only 10 s, and cd 12, you would still want to coordinate your effort with your casters to let them big out some huge numbers.

Edit: Oh the debuff is only on a vorpal strike.. Mmm in that case i kinda agree.. They are mindless.. Thats way too rare to ever be reliable to tacticaly set up for your teammates. Should be on every hit. Maybe +10% vul per hit, duration 20s, max 10 stacks.. Let it be a nice build up on bosses to get melee and casters to work togethehr.

[ShadowFlash]

A couple quick questions, if someone could be so kind...

1st: lightning/anvil....Main hand only, or is an Axe and Hammer build possible to use both lightning and anvil? I suppose you could weapon swap between main/off-hand if it's main-hand only. Unless you got your alchemical air, a dwarven tactics fighter may want to run with a stunner off-hand and D.Axe main...I know I do. I assume they share the same cooldown.

2nd: Overwhelming Critical Feat. I've heard this mentioned in several threads...my search-fu fails me, and I can't find a description or pre-req's. In fact, I haven't seen a listing of any new "epic" feats.

Thanks
ShadowFlash

Edit...would have to axe and mace

[Vazok1]

Devastating critical (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) +1 critical damage mulitplier on rolls of 19-20

Doesn't work with wraps.

Pulverizer (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) Increases critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1

Doesn't work with wraps.

Combat brute (required 20): (Passive) You gain +1[W] damage with melee weapons and deal +50% to helpless opponents while any action boost is active

Neither the 1[w] or the 50% works with wraps.

Kind of expected either lightning mace or anvil of thunder to work with wraps but they don't say they do so I can't complain there

On a side note sundering swings seems not to include the 15th second in the timer on tier 3, 15 is there, but only for a split second before its 14, effectively giving you 14 second instead. Not a big thing, still does what it says on the tin, just something I noticed.

[Vazok1]

A couple quick questions, if someone could be so kind...

1st: lightning/anvil....Main hand only, or is an Axe and Hammer build possible to use both lightning and anvil? I suppose you could weapon swap between main/off-hand if it's main-hand only. Unless you got your alchemical air, a dwarven tactics fighter may want to run with a stunner off-hand and D.Axe main...I know I do. I assume they share the same cooldown.

they specifically state in your main hand in afraid, you could go with axe+hammer and just swap them around depending on what your fighting, you'd want lightning for bosses for the 15% doublestrike proc and sonic for trash for the 6second stun proc

2nd: Overwhelming Critical Feat. I've heard this mentioned in several threads...my search-fu fails me, and I can't find a description or pre-req's. In fact, I haven't seen a listing of any new "epic" feats.

Thanks
ShadowFlash

Edit...would have to axe and mace

Epic spell focus: +1 to DC, prereq: great spell focus'
Bulwark of Defense: +2 all saves, +4 AC'
combat archery: Your pointblank shot bonus is increased by +1[W], You gain 2% dodge when equiping a ranged weapon. Prereq: PBS, dex21'
Epic Spell Penetration: +4 to spell pen, pre-req: spell pen, greater spell pen
Epic Mental Toughness: 200sp. Prereq: Imp mental Tough'
Epic Toughness: 50hp. Prereq: toughness, con21'
Great *stat*: +1 Stat' <- these feats can be taken multiple times
Improved Dark Vision: +50% to your Dark Vision range. Pre req: Darkvision (can't take darkvision as a feat it seems, only drow get it iirc)
Improved Martial Arts: +1 Weapon dice unarmed, +0.5 with other ki weapons. Prereq: monk 12' (I think Eladrin said this one stacks multi times. description doesn't say that though)
Improved Sneak Attack: 3d6 Sneak Attack. Prereq: Rogue 12, Dex 21'
Inspire Excelence: +4 competence bonus to a stat of your choice to yourself and your allies, Pre req: inspire heroics
Overwhelming Critical Slash/Bludge/Pierce: +1 Crit multi on 19-20. Prereq: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Imp Crit Slash/Bludge/Pierce, Wep Focus Slash/Bludge/Pierce, STR 23'
Vorpal Strikes: Unarmed = Vorpal + Slashing (togglable). Prereq: Monk 12, Imp crit Bludge, Wis 23'


Let all your questions henceforth be considered answered.


note: those of your who saw these in beta notice some of the pre-reqs have changed making some of these really cool
note: only the great stat ones now specifically state they can be taken multiple times, sneak attack and imp martial used to say it, they don't any more.
note: inspire excellence seems to be the only one without the purple background, don't know if that means it can be taken at 18 or not.

[Taimasan]

So nothing works with wraps?? sigh. Guess that makes my ED picking much easier.

[XL_Jockey]

So nothing works with wraps?? sigh. Guess that makes my ED picking much easier.

I hear you, my 12Ftr/8Mnk doesn't have as many options as I thought. That's a shame. Every time I get close to 20, the game changes and I feel like I need to rework my build.

[tygara]

Tested out a capped dreadnought (unarmed monk)
Here are some of the results I noticed which I consider very buggy
I am not sure if all of it is handwraps related of it is bugged with all weapons though, only tested it unarmed so far:


1- combat brute (+1dmg, +50% dmg on helpless mobs when action boost is active)
Not working for wraps, every time I stunned a mob, I was getting my regular dmg, nothing bonus at all
Normalle on a stunned mob, you should be doing 100% base + 50% extra due to helpless + 50% extra due to this ability, only getting 150% on attacks, not the full 200%

2- Sundering Swings (15sec long all attacks have an impr sunder effect
Only applying regular sunder, not improved. No trauma being applied on a save at all, so no impr sunder
When activating this ability, every time I lose all my special effects on wraps. To fix this I ahve to eauip another pair of wraps and then reeauip the previous ones. This has got to be fixed as this bug seems to reaccure on a LOT of dreadnought abilities.

3- Impr PA (+0.5WD when PA is active)
Not showing up in inventory, and I honestely dont notice any difference with having taken that feat on dmg output
Am not sure if thisone is applying or not, but please relook the code, seems to me like it aint.

4- Momentum Swing (melee att, +5WD, +3 crit thread range)
Thisone is kind of strange. Was with Shade in grp and he stated that the dmg output on that attack is rather big, strangely enough my monk aint gettting ANY dmg on that attack. It seems to mis, being dodged or jsut not giving any dmg nor roll on that attack at all. Have used it over 200 times in the mean time and never actually say it land.
Cleave does reset this abilities cd so that mechanic is working as intended.
Momentum swing also has a very strange animation on a monk, which makes him right after the attack stand still for about 1-2seconds without making any attacks at all! Very annoying at this moment.
One strange thing about this attack though. Strangely enough when I use it, sometimes right after that attack all my wrap bonusses are gone, totally dissapeared. I then have to change to other wraps and reequip my previous ones to do my regular dmg output again. Once the wraps are in the buggy state, even ToD aint being applied, nor sneak attack.

5- Lay waste (area att, +5WD, +1 crit thread multiplier, knock down enemies when failed save)
Positive notes: Reset cooldown on momentum swing (working as entended), knocking enemies down in the area (same)
Negative: Exactely the same bugs with wraps as momentum swing. Although on this attack I have seen already sometimes (like 10% of all my attacks) damage being applied on the attack to all mobs around me, it still seems very buggy as most of the times the enemies get tripped mut no dmg is being dealt to them at all. This attack never seems to miss when I shoot it out as the trip is a very good indication if it went off correctely or not, but the dmg output is bugged a lot.
Also after this move, wraps seem to sometimes lose all effects (see momentum swing)

6- Devestating critical (+1 crit multiplier on 19-20)
Not applying, still doing the same crit numbers as before

7- Pulverizer (+1 crit thread range on blund weaps)
Not showing up on char sheet, not applying eather as I dont seem to crit on 18s like I am suppose to with this ability.

8- Masters Blitz (Epic moment)
This abilty works fine once activated, only issue that I really have with it is the VERY long activate time. To be standing still as a monk for literly 5-6 seconds looking like you are praying to activate it is way too long. Should activate at the speed of a regular action boost. Problem with this long activate time is by the time you can start doing your very first attack, you only have like 8-9seconds left on your masters blitz, so instead of 15sec to kill a guy and get an extra stack, you actually really only have those 8-9seconds to make your first kill. Once a mob killed, you go to 15seconds and it aint buggy at all after that stage.
Second, also a huge issue is the loss of stacks when zoning, shrining, dying, but I wont go too much in detail about it as Shade has made a very well explained post about this severe problem.


All in all, Dreadnought has the potential to be a very good destiny but it is as of this stage packed with issues and bugs and just annoying problems. Defnately wraps have to be relooked in the entire code, coz lets face it, Grandmaster flowersniffer is just a joke of a monk tree for STR-based monks, and dreadnought is by far the way to go. A lot of monks will choose dreadnought as their path so wraps have to be fixed and included in this tree.

[Shade]

4- Momentum Swing (melee att, +5WD, +3 crit thread range)
Thisone is kind of strange. Was with Shade in grp and he stated that the dmg output on that attack is rather big, strangely enough my monk aint gettting ANY dmg on that attack. It seems to mis, being dodged or jsut not giving any dmg nor roll on that attack at all. Have used it over 200 times in the mean time and never actually say it land.

Remember to list your race as I specified above. This is an animation issue I believe, and some animation issues are race specific. Unarmed human monk iirc?

Also try it on a stationary enemy and dont move for a long time. It could be dealing damage, but just having a massive delay before it shows up, thats how it with halforc greataxe atm. Like a 7+ second delay.

[Nick_RC]

Sorry in advance but am hearing different reports:

Are the dreadnought boosts stackable(I.e dual boosting) with either class or racial boosts? Maybe its bugged either way so aDev reply would be great whether the intention is there or not.

Cheers

N

[LeLoric]

Sorry in advance but am hearing different reports:

Are the dreadnought boosts stackable(I.e dual boosting) with either class or racial boosts? Maybe its bugged either way so aDev reply would be great whether the intention is there or not.

Cheers

N

Nope they don't stack nick in fact if you have the corresponding boost already you cant even take it. This kinda ruins many reasons for splashing a bit of ftr/rog to get haste boost as you can just twist in the full 30% boost to any ed versus running with a weaker percentage boost. They do stack with the racials just like normal boosts do now.

[Nick_RC]

Nope they don't stack nick in fact if you have the corresponding boost already you cant even take it. This kinda ruins many reasons for splashing a bit of ftr/rog to get haste boost as you can just twist in the full 30% boost to any ed versus running with a weaker percentage boost. They do stack with the racials just like normal boosts do now.

Ok cool thanks man. Groans goin 18 fvs/2monk/GMoF at this stage and I'm thinking dual boosting helf will be a good option.

Cheers

N

[tygara]

Remember to list your race as I specified above. This is an animation issue I believe, and some animation issues are race specific. Unarmed human monk iirc?

Also try it on a stationary enemy and dont move for a long time. It could be dealing damage, but just having a massive delay before it shows up, thats how it with halforc greataxe atm. Like a 7+ second delay.

It is a human female monk, unarmed

Tried it on stationairy mobs, stunned an immobilised today
Ended up testing it out a lot earlier this afternoon after I made this post
Result: I have had momentum swing no working about 90% of the times, the other 10% I finally found some attacks in the line that didnt miss and actually gave some damage output, but the calcualtion on a monk is definatelly totally wrong. I do on a normal hit about 70-85dmg, using both momentum swing and lay waste seems to be doing on average 25dmg which is totally incorrect. An attack that is suppose to do 5x WD doing 1/3th of a normal attack is stupid. Not sure if this is monk related but I think it is as currently I think it is only counting the original 1d6 unarmed dmg, without applying the multiplier mod to unarmed attacks

[legendlore]

a bit curious about Master's blitz. It says "The master's blitz counter increments each time a tactical feat is successfully used".

Does this mean Stunning blow, Trip etc? As in bought/class gained feats?

Shouldn't there be some ability in the destiny that allowed for earning Epic moment points? As is I can see that it is probably very powerful for monks but there are melees without a single tactical feat.

Maybe I'm just missing something obvious (I've just started looking into this tree), but it seems like all the other destinies have mechanics that allow any class to use their Epic moment.

[Eladrin]

As is I can see that it is probably very powerful for monks but there are melees without a single tactical feat.

Everybody has Trip and Sunder by level 20.

[BruceTheHoon]

Everybody has Trip and Sunder by level 20.

Does successfully used mean, that the tactical feat actually succeeds, or just that we successfully press the button and therefore use the feat to whatever end. I'm asking, because my 50str tempest has yet to trip a single thing in epics.