Feedback: Legendary Dreadnought

[Tolero]

Use this thread to provide specific feedback about this Epic Destiny! General Epic Destiny feedback should be keep to the main Epic Destiny thread.

[maddong]

I think the Master's Blitz might be a bit much. Experienced groups will have everyone in the group crowd control (paralyzing, stun, etc) and "prep" (wounding, damage, level drain) except their best DPS dreadnought who will be the designated killer. By the end of the quest they will be killing everything with cleave/great cleave/supreme cleave if you are zerging it. +2500% damage on both hands? Why even let the cap get up that high? You could have the cap quite a bit lower and just reset the duration. It would still be a fantastic ability.

I would probably just equalize the duration's and relative damage's of Master's Blitz and Unbridled Fury to equalize LD with FOTW (right now most people seem to think that LD is superior). For Unbridled Fury a +400% every 3 seconds is about every 6 attacks. So it is about a +66% damage boost to the main hand for 30 seconds only (vs Blitz which I believe affects both hands).

[LeLoric]

Thick skinned and unmavable really need to be on seperate timer from haste/dmg/attack boosts. They just aren't ever available when needed unless you want to no use your good dps boosts which will not happen.

[ayspam]

Activating epic destiny action boost first then applying human versatility damage resets timer to 20secs but cancels out turn the tide and just action point damage shows.

however

If I activate human vers then destiny action boost they stack and both show on separate timers. 1 being action boost turn the tide the other being action point damage.

I can fraps it if it s not clear what I trying to say.

[Carpone]

Thick skinned and unmavable really need to be on seperate timer from haste/dmg/attack boosts. They just aren't ever available when needed unless you want to no use your good dps boosts which will not happen.

Yes, please put LD auto grant boosts on their own timer separate from Action Boost: Haste/Attack/Damage.

[jejeba86]

Is it feasible to make Frenzied Berserker's granted Supreme Cleave to contribute less to Momentum Swing cooldown resetting? Like a 5% chance instead of 15%?

I'm inclined to think that the changes made to Supreme Cleave were almost entirely based upon overpowered synergy with Epic ability, and that changes to basic and Great Cleave just followed the trend.

Another option would be to remove Supreme Cleave chance of resetting the ability.

All in all, just to remove the Supreme Cleave cooldown, as this is a Barbarian Class Signature Move, and of course it gives us players some emotion for spinning around just like old D2 barbarian whirlwind (at least for me).

So, is it really your intention to not let Supreme Cleave have a zero cooldown, or this decision was entirely based on Momentum Swing?

If it's just because of the synergy, can we get an election on what us players would prefer?

Thank you!

[LeLoric]

Is it feasible to make Frenzied Berserker's granted Supreme Cleave to contribute less to Momentum Swing cooldown resetting? Like a 5% chance instead of 15%?

I'm inclined to think that the changes made to Supreme Cleave were almost entirely based upon overpowered synergy with Epic ability, and that changes to basic and Great Cleave just followed the trend.

Another option would be to remove Supreme Cleave chance of resetting the ability.

All in all, just to remove the Supreme Cleave cooldown, as this is a Barbarian Class Signature Move, and of course it gives us players some emotion for spinning around just like old D2 barbarian whirlwind (at least for me).

So, is it really your intention to not let Supreme Cleave have a zero cooldown, or this decision was entirely based on Momentum Swing?

If it's just because of the synergy, can we get an election on what us players would prefer?

Thank you!

I dont think it has anything to do with momentum swing as in general between cleave greatcleave and lay waste you can already pretyt much reset it on demand.

The supreme cleave change is due to the fact it can be used to speed up your rate of attack by firing it everytime you perform your first two attacks in the chain thereby missing the slower last two.

[DnD3]

Anyone here tested to see if you can have Fighter Haste and Legendary Dreadnought Damage boost at the same time? Also I take it LD Damage Boost does not stack with human and half elf versatility damage boost?

[Wraith_Sarevok]

I dont think it has anything to do with momentum swing as in general between cleave greatcleave and lay waste you can already pretyt much reset it on demand.

The supreme cleave change is due to the fact it can be used to speed up your rate of attack by firing it everytime you perform your first two attacks in the chain thereby missing the slower last two.

So why don't they just reduce the animation speed of Supreme Cleave to match auto attacks? Or why not just make all the animations have the same attack speed?

It doesn't seem that hard to do. It's just a matter of timing and visual playtesting. I've done similar programming in the Warcraft 3 Map Editor for crying out loud.

But no, instead we get this unexplained nerf for no good reason.

[Melondrop]

Can someone explain anything thats good about this for a twf fighter without cleave or combat expertise?
Seems like alot of the destiny for me is kinda meh and geared towards thf.
...maybe im missing something.
The improved pa and sunder abilities sound nice, but i dont get whats up with tier 4.
Do any of the 100 damage abilities in tier 4 work with khopesh?

Far as masters blitz goes it says..
For 10 seconds, you gain +50% dodge and deal +25% melee damage. Any time you kill an opponent while under the effects of Master's blitz, you gain an additional stack of melee damage bonus and restart duration.

So does that mean if i cant kill something in under 10 seconds then i pretty much wasted the blitz?

[jejeba86]

Can someone explain anything thats good about this for a twf fighter without cleave or combat expertise?

All of this is better for twf:

Combat brute (required 20): (Passive) You gain +1[W] damage with melee weapons and deal +50% to helpless opponents while any action boost is active

Improved power attack (min level: 20 - Feat prereq: Power attack) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 6secs) When PA is active you gain +0.5[W] with melee weapons
Critical damage (min level: 20) (3 ranks - 1 AP): (Passive) +2 damage on critical hits (before multiplier)
Volcano's edge (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack: On hit: 100 fire damage. On critical, target takes incineration damage. On Vorpal, target fire vulnerability increased by 100% for 10 seconds. Require kama, knife, sickle or sword
Lightning Mace (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On hit: 100 electrical damage. On critical: gain 15% melee double strike for 6 seconds. On vorpal target elecrtical vulnerability increased by 100%. Requires a club, greatclub, mac, morningstar or quaterstaff.
Anvil of thunder (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On Hit: 100 sonic damage. On critical: Target is dazed for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: Target is stunned for 6 seconds. Requires an axe, hammer or pick.
Advancing blows (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) On melee critical hit, you gain: +1 to hit and damage for 6 seconds. Stacks 5 times.
Devastating critical (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) +1 critical damage mulitplier on rolls of 19-20
Pulverizer (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) Increases critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1
Headman's chop (min level: 20 - Prereq: Devastating critical 1)(1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) When you have an axe equipped in your main hand, you gain an additional +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.

Do any of the 100 damage abilities in tier 4 work with khopesh?

Volcano's Edge. Khopesh is a sword.

Far as masters blitz goes it says..
For 10 seconds, you gain +50% dodge and deal +25% melee damage. Any time you kill an opponent while under the effects of Master's blitz, you gain an additional stack of melee damage bonus and restart duration.

So does that mean if i cant kill something in under 10 seconds then i pretty much wasted the blitz?

Yes, it means. But now should be 15s. It's extremely powerfull when used under the right circumstances and strategies. Wanna know if it's worthy?

I know its not gonna happen all that often but you get your stacks going on blitz high enough and have enough mobs to keep it going look out omg. Just ran full 50 stack for over 3 minutes in the red dragon challenge. Dragon himself dropped in about 10 swings still had half of my haste boost going.

Almost 2k per regular non crit swing crits were over 8k.

You start racking up enough stacks of this its crazy and as long as the mobs keep coming theres no ending it.

[Belfaze]

Can we get clarification on this:

Legendary dreadnought

Tier 4 (12 points required)
Tactical genius (min level: 20 - Prereq: Combat expertise) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 5mins) Activate to clear cooldown of all tactical feats
Volcano's edge (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack: On hit: 100 fire damage. On critical, target takes incineration damage. On Vorpal, target fire vulnerability increased by 100% for 10 seconds. Require kama, knife, sickle or sword
Lightning Mace (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On hit: 100 electrical damage. On critical: gain 15% melee double strike for 6 seconds. On vorpal target elecrtical vulnerability increased by 100%. Requires a club, greatclub, mac, morningstar or quaterstaff.
Anvil of thunder (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On Hit: 100 sonic damage. On critical: Target is dazed for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: Target is stunned for 6 seconds. Requires an axe, hammer or pick.

Volcanoes Edge "sword" covers all: long sword, short sword, bastard sword, khopesh, falchion, great sword, rapier, scimitar?

Anvil of thunder "axe" covers all: dwarven axe, greataxe, battleaxe, handaxe?

Also, do these effects proc on thrown weapons, ie: Dart (count as sword?), Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer?

[Belfaze]

I think the Master's Blitz might be a bit much. Experienced groups will have everyone in the group crowd control (paralyzing, stun, etc) and "prep" (wounding, damage, level drain) except their best DPS dreadnought who will be the designated killer. By the end of the quest they will be killing everything with cleave/great cleave/supreme cleave if you are zerging it. +2500% damage on both hands? Why even let the cap get up that high? You could have the cap quite a bit lower and just reset the duration. It would still be a fantastic ability.

I would probably just equalize the duration's and relative damage's of Master's Blitz and Unbridled Fury to equalize LD with FOTW (right now most people seem to think that LD is superior). For Unbridled Fury a +400% every 3 seconds is about every 6 attacks. So it is about a +66% damage boost to the main hand for 30 seconds only (vs Blitz which I believe affects both hands).

I agree with your first comment. Does it still only lose one stack every 15s? Wondering because if you do manage to get it up to 10 or so, you've got a whole 2 minutes to reach the next mob, which is easily done.

The Master's Blitz is superior to Unbridled Fury, however in situations where you aren't soloing and have a team that does not communicate (poor teamwork) Fury is more beneficial, since you will have a hard time getting Blitz to stack up.

Also the DPS increase of using Unbridled Fury is not neglible, especially when you factor in that every 3 seconds you are not only doing +400% (almost guaranteed crit) but are also knocking down any non-rednamed with no save.

Cleaves
Is there any way that we can reduce the number of cleave animation clickies? As a Barbarian taking this destiny and ofc going for the overwhelming critical feat with this ED I have 5 cleave effects. Then however throw in trip and sunder with the +6 to DC which are suddenly very effective (couldn't seem to trip any drow in King's forest during closed beta without the +6), and there are now 7 keys that I need to continuously spam. It's like someone with no talent playing the piano, simply run your finger from 1-7 to hit the hotbar short-cuts and then repeat. This is not fun and isn't very healthy for hardware either.

Add the fact that now I have to find somewhere to fit in Damage boost, haste boost, Uncanny dodge, Frenzy, Death Frenzy and more on my hotbars/shortcuts. People complain that casters have it hard for hotbars, but I play a caster and their hotbars are much more situational and rarely ever do you need to continuously spam so many keys.

[destiny4405]

Also, do these effects proc on thrown weapons, ie: Dart (count as sword?), Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer?

Melee attack: On hit: 100 fire damage. On critical, target takes incineration damage. On Vorpal, target fire vulnerability increased by 100% for 10 seconds. Require kama, knife, sickle or sword

my guess would be no.

[Vazok1]

Also, do these effects proc on thrown weapons, ie: Dart (count as sword?), Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer?

They are all specifically stated as melee attacks so no ranged. Volcano's and the others are actually pretty powerful even without the incineration proc on crits. 4.67 extra damage a swing with a twf without resistances.

[LeLoric]

I am pretty sure master's blitz is not working as intended right now. Instead of the ticker going down each time you dont get something within the time limit it stays at its current number showing 0:00 on the timer for the length of time it would normally take to go back to 0 ticks but it can no longer advance upwards.

[ComicRelief]

I am primarily a melee (fighter class, or sub-class) user. My only (so far) level 20+ toon is a 19 Ftr/1 Rog. I have purposefully chosen to be a "generalist", being capable of using many different types of weapons; I mostly have TWF builds. I do not have/use "Action Boost" enhancements; I do not (typically) use the various different fighter "tactics" (i.e. trip, sunder, etc.). I personally do not care to use a lot of 'clickies'.

So, as I was looking over the different ED's during the closed beta, it is obvious that "Legendary Dreadnought" is the one ED that is geared towards the Fighter class. But it is my personal opinion that this ED has way too many "tactic" and/or "Action Boost" related items for one such as I. For example:

There are 6 out of 26 (that's approx. 23%, nearly 1/4) items which require Combat Expertise (2), Power Attack (1), Cleave (2), or Improved Sunder (1). Since I have none of those, I am locked-out from being able to use them. Further, there are 12 "active" items (approx. 46% - nearly 1/2) plus another 2 "action boost enhancement" items, making 14 out of 26 (approx. 54%) items that are either "active" and/or "action boost" related.

Additionally, in the first row of (5) possible enhancements, (1) requires Improved Sunder, (1) is a +2 DC to tactics, (1) is an additional action boost per rest, (1) is an action boost *BUT only if you haven't already taken it as an Heroic Enhancement* {and if I didn't want it as an heroic enhancement, what makes you think I would want it as an ED enhancement?}, and (1) is a stat boost. Similar situation on row two, except that I have to spend 4 EDAPs to be able to use them. But since only the Stat boost is really attractive to me, that (once again) means I must *waste* my limited EDAPs on something I don't want in order to get something I do want.

Not to mention, there is NOTHING for a TWF or a THF build. None of the other Epic Destinies offer enhancements for TWF or THF either. {Why? There are so many TWF and THF builds out there, why not have EDs that cater to them?}

Yes, there are a few (very few, IMO) good enhancements in this ED (like pluses to critical hits [passive], pluses if wielding "hammers", "maces", or "blades" in primary hand [all "active"], but nothing really "for me". Unfortunately, my only other ED choices are "Grandmaster of Flowers", tailored for Monks, and "Shadowdancer", tailored for Rogues.

The Fighter is, arguably, the most versatile build - should it not have the most versatile ED? Or at least, 2 or 3 EDs 'tailored' for them? I think Legendary Dreadnought is OK - many will love it, but it is not for me. But then, neither is any of the other EDs, really. How about making two more Fighter EDs - one that tailors to TWF and another for THF? At the very least, I think there should be one for TWF.

One possible idea could be borrowed from NWN/NWN2 (yes, yes, I know this is not NWN - doesn't mean we can't do a little comparison, from time-to-time) - they had a "Monkey Grip" (fighter) feat which allowed a fighter to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand (I do not recall if there were any penalties involved or not). Imagine a TWF build being able to dual-wield great swords/axes/clubs or mauls. Wouldn't that be an Epic Destiny worthy enhancement?

{I think so - but what do I know?}

[KielbasaBeta]

Not sure how serious you are but if you're looking for an auto attack epic destiny with only a few clickies go fury of the wild.

[ComicRelief]

Not sure how serious you are but if you're looking for an auto attack epic destiny with only a few clickies go fury of the wild.

Except as things stand right now, I cannot - the only three EDs available to me are Legendary Dreadnought, Grandmaster of Flowers, and Shadowdancer.

And I'm not necessarily looking for an "auto-attack" ED, per se - I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be any EDs tailored for a TWF (or THF, for that matter), like me.

{But then, I am unique - just like everyone else.}

[Jaid314]

Except as things stand right now, I cannot - the only three EDs available to me are Legendary Dreadnought, Grandmaster of Flowers, and Shadowdancer.

And I'm not necessarily looking for an "auto-attack" ED, per se - I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be any EDs tailored for a TWF (or THF, for that matter), like me.

{But then, I am unique - just like everyone else.}

unresearched opinion is unresearched.

it will take you a bit longer to get to fury. i'll even agree that it's reasonable to be annoyed to have to go through other destinies first.

but if you've actually invested any time or effort into this, you should know by now that you can in fact eventually pick up every single destiny to the highest tier you care to work for, regardless of class.

in your case, it will probably involve starting with dreadnought (up to tier 4), switching to shiradi champion (up to tier 3), and then getting to enter fury of the wild at long last. annoying? yes. absolutely. impossible? not by a long shot.

if you want to argue that you should be able to choose any destiny you want as your first destiny, fine. i'll agree to that. but if you're going to complain about something, maybe you should make sure that something is actually the situation first.

edit: and if you want a TWF DPS PrE, take a look at shadowdancer. ignore all the utility stuff, you get +6d6 sneak attack damage per hand, evasion (while getting your capstone), a couple of attacks that give a bit of extra damage which you don't really need to use (although getting some charges is recommended, just to boost your dodge %)... throw in a few defensive/utilities clickies for good measure.

you may not like every single ability in it, but if all you want is something good for TWF, without involving lots of clicking, then go shadowdancer (on a side note, i'm not entirely certain what exactly is so "anti-TWF" for dreadnought, but whatever).