Feedback: Legendary Dreadnought

[Tolero]

Use this thread to provide specific feedback about this Epic Destiny! General Epic Destiny feedback should be keep to the main Epic Destiny thread.

[maddong]

I think the Master's Blitz might be a bit much. Experienced groups will have everyone in the group crowd control (paralyzing, stun, etc) and "prep" (wounding, damage, level drain) except their best DPS dreadnought who will be the designated killer. By the end of the quest they will be killing everything with cleave/great cleave/supreme cleave if you are zerging it. +2500% damage on both hands? Why even let the cap get up that high? You could have the cap quite a bit lower and just reset the duration. It would still be a fantastic ability.

I would probably just equalize the duration's and relative damage's of Master's Blitz and Unbridled Fury to equalize LD with FOTW (right now most people seem to think that LD is superior). For Unbridled Fury a +400% every 3 seconds is about every 6 attacks. So it is about a +66% damage boost to the main hand for 30 seconds only (vs Blitz which I believe affects both hands).

[Belfaze]

I think the Master's Blitz might be a bit much. Experienced groups will have everyone in the group crowd control (paralyzing, stun, etc) and "prep" (wounding, damage, level drain) except their best DPS dreadnought who will be the designated killer. By the end of the quest they will be killing everything with cleave/great cleave/supreme cleave if you are zerging it. +2500% damage on both hands? Why even let the cap get up that high? You could have the cap quite a bit lower and just reset the duration. It would still be a fantastic ability.

I would probably just equalize the duration's and relative damage's of Master's Blitz and Unbridled Fury to equalize LD with FOTW (right now most people seem to think that LD is superior). For Unbridled Fury a +400% every 3 seconds is about every 6 attacks. So it is about a +66% damage boost to the main hand for 30 seconds only (vs Blitz which I believe affects both hands).

I agree with your first comment. Does it still only lose one stack every 15s? Wondering because if you do manage to get it up to 10 or so, you've got a whole 2 minutes to reach the next mob, which is easily done.

The Master's Blitz is superior to Unbridled Fury, however in situations where you aren't soloing and have a team that does not communicate (poor teamwork) Fury is more beneficial, since you will have a hard time getting Blitz to stack up.

Also the DPS increase of using Unbridled Fury is not neglible, especially when you factor in that every 3 seconds you are not only doing +400% (almost guaranteed crit) but are also knocking down any non-rednamed with no save.

Cleaves
Is there any way that we can reduce the number of cleave animation clickies? As a Barbarian taking this destiny and ofc going for the overwhelming critical feat with this ED I have 5 cleave effects. Then however throw in trip and sunder with the +6 to DC which are suddenly very effective (couldn't seem to trip any drow in King's forest during closed beta without the +6), and there are now 7 keys that I need to continuously spam. It's like someone with no talent playing the piano, simply run your finger from 1-7 to hit the hotbar short-cuts and then repeat. This is not fun and isn't very healthy for hardware either.

Add the fact that now I have to find somewhere to fit in Damage boost, haste boost, Uncanny dodge, Frenzy, Death Frenzy and more on my hotbars/shortcuts. People complain that casters have it hard for hotbars, but I play a caster and their hotbars are much more situational and rarely ever do you need to continuously spam so many keys.

[LeLoric]

Thick skinned and unmavable really need to be on seperate timer from haste/dmg/attack boosts. They just aren't ever available when needed unless you want to no use your good dps boosts which will not happen.

[Carpone]

Thick skinned and unmavable really need to be on seperate timer from haste/dmg/attack boosts. They just aren't ever available when needed unless you want to no use your good dps boosts which will not happen.

Yes, please put LD auto grant boosts on their own timer separate from Action Boost: Haste/Attack/Damage.

[ayspam]

Activating epic destiny action boost first then applying human versatility damage resets timer to 20secs but cancels out turn the tide and just action point damage shows.

however

If I activate human vers then destiny action boost they stack and both show on separate timers. 1 being action boost turn the tide the other being action point damage.

I can fraps it if it s not clear what I trying to say.

[jejeba86]

Is it feasible to make Frenzied Berserker's granted Supreme Cleave to contribute less to Momentum Swing cooldown resetting? Like a 5% chance instead of 15%?

I'm inclined to think that the changes made to Supreme Cleave were almost entirely based upon overpowered synergy with Epic ability, and that changes to basic and Great Cleave just followed the trend.

Another option would be to remove Supreme Cleave chance of resetting the ability.

All in all, just to remove the Supreme Cleave cooldown, as this is a Barbarian Class Signature Move, and of course it gives us players some emotion for spinning around just like old D2 barbarian whirlwind (at least for me).

So, is it really your intention to not let Supreme Cleave have a zero cooldown, or this decision was entirely based on Momentum Swing?

If it's just because of the synergy, can we get an election on what us players would prefer?

Thank you!

[LeLoric]

Is it feasible to make Frenzied Berserker's granted Supreme Cleave to contribute less to Momentum Swing cooldown resetting? Like a 5% chance instead of 15%?

I'm inclined to think that the changes made to Supreme Cleave were almost entirely based upon overpowered synergy with Epic ability, and that changes to basic and Great Cleave just followed the trend.

Another option would be to remove Supreme Cleave chance of resetting the ability.

All in all, just to remove the Supreme Cleave cooldown, as this is a Barbarian Class Signature Move, and of course it gives us players some emotion for spinning around just like old D2 barbarian whirlwind (at least for me).

So, is it really your intention to not let Supreme Cleave have a zero cooldown, or this decision was entirely based on Momentum Swing?

If it's just because of the synergy, can we get an election on what us players would prefer?

Thank you!

I dont think it has anything to do with momentum swing as in general between cleave greatcleave and lay waste you can already pretyt much reset it on demand.

The supreme cleave change is due to the fact it can be used to speed up your rate of attack by firing it everytime you perform your first two attacks in the chain thereby missing the slower last two.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

I dont think it has anything to do with momentum swing as in general between cleave greatcleave and lay waste you can already pretyt much reset it on demand.

The supreme cleave change is due to the fact it can be used to speed up your rate of attack by firing it everytime you perform your first two attacks in the chain thereby missing the slower last two.

So why don't they just reduce the animation speed of Supreme Cleave to match auto attacks? Or why not just make all the animations have the same attack speed?

It doesn't seem that hard to do. It's just a matter of timing and visual playtesting. I've done similar programming in the Warcraft 3 Map Editor for crying out loud.

But no, instead we get this unexplained nerf for no good reason.

[LiquidShadow]

So why don't they just reduce the animation speed of Supreme Cleave to match auto attacks? Or why not just make all the animations have the same attack speed?

It doesn't seem that hard to do. It's just a matter of timing and visual playtesting. I've done similar programming in the Warcraft 3 Map Editor for crying out loud.

But no, instead we get this unexplained nerf for no good reason.

no good reason? barbarian constantly spinning around and doing full dmg with possibility to crit at silly hp cost on heroic lvls is ridiculous. as overpowered as casters in low lvl content.

i wouldnt mind shorter cooldown if it was 10% hp each use instead of flat 10hp then u would think twice before using it 5 times in a 5-10 seconds time frame when surrounded by 10 mobs

[LeLoric]

Wow guys why are we pushing this into a fighter vs barb debate either class can and will use the dreadnaught destiny as well as the fury of the wild and shadowdancer and others. Let's keep feedback and discussion to dreadnaught related stuff here.

[ShadowFlash]

A couple quick questions, if someone could be so kind...

1st: lightning/anvil....Main hand only, or is an Axe and Hammer build possible to use both lightning and anvil? I suppose you could weapon swap between main/off-hand if it's main-hand only. Unless you got your alchemical air, a dwarven tactics fighter may want to run with a stunner off-hand and D.Axe main...I know I do. I assume they share the same cooldown.

2nd: Overwhelming Critical Feat. I've heard this mentioned in several threads...my search-fu fails me, and I can't find a description or pre-req's. In fact, I haven't seen a listing of any new "epic" feats.

Thanks
ShadowFlash

Edit...would have to axe and mace

[Vazok1]

Devastating critical (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) +1 critical damage mulitplier on rolls of 19-20

Doesn't work with wraps.

Pulverizer (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) Increases critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1

Doesn't work with wraps.

Combat brute (required 20): (Passive) You gain +1[W] damage with melee weapons and deal +50% to helpless opponents while any action boost is active

Neither the 1[w] or the 50% works with wraps.

Kind of expected either lightning mace or anvil of thunder to work with wraps but they don't say they do so I can't complain there

On a side note sundering swings seems not to include the 15th second in the timer on tier 3, 15 is there, but only for a split second before its 14, effectively giving you 14 second instead. Not a big thing, still does what it says on the tin, just something I noticed.

[tygara]

Tested out a capped dreadnought (unarmed monk)
Here are some of the results I noticed which I consider very buggy
I am not sure if all of it is handwraps related of it is bugged with all weapons though, only tested it unarmed so far:


1- combat brute (+1dmg, +50% dmg on helpless mobs when action boost is active)
Not working for wraps, every time I stunned a mob, I was getting my regular dmg, nothing bonus at all
Normalle on a stunned mob, you should be doing 100% base + 50% extra due to helpless + 50% extra due to this ability, only getting 150% on attacks, not the full 200%

2- Sundering Swings (15sec long all attacks have an impr sunder effect
Only applying regular sunder, not improved. No trauma being applied on a save at all, so no impr sunder
When activating this ability, every time I lose all my special effects on wraps. To fix this I ahve to eauip another pair of wraps and then reeauip the previous ones. This has got to be fixed as this bug seems to reaccure on a LOT of dreadnought abilities.

3- Impr PA (+0.5WD when PA is active)
Not showing up in inventory, and I honestely dont notice any difference with having taken that feat on dmg output
Am not sure if thisone is applying or not, but please relook the code, seems to me like it aint.

4- Momentum Swing (melee att, +5WD, +3 crit thread range)
Thisone is kind of strange. Was with Shade in grp and he stated that the dmg output on that attack is rather big, strangely enough my monk aint gettting ANY dmg on that attack. It seems to mis, being dodged or jsut not giving any dmg nor roll on that attack at all. Have used it over 200 times in the mean time and never actually say it land.
Cleave does reset this abilities cd so that mechanic is working as intended.
Momentum swing also has a very strange animation on a monk, which makes him right after the attack stand still for about 1-2seconds without making any attacks at all! Very annoying at this moment.
One strange thing about this attack though. Strangely enough when I use it, sometimes right after that attack all my wrap bonusses are gone, totally dissapeared. I then have to change to other wraps and reequip my previous ones to do my regular dmg output again. Once the wraps are in the buggy state, even ToD aint being applied, nor sneak attack.

5- Lay waste (area att, +5WD, +1 crit thread multiplier, knock down enemies when failed save)
Positive notes: Reset cooldown on momentum swing (working as entended), knocking enemies down in the area (same)
Negative: Exactely the same bugs with wraps as momentum swing. Although on this attack I have seen already sometimes (like 10% of all my attacks) damage being applied on the attack to all mobs around me, it still seems very buggy as most of the times the enemies get tripped mut no dmg is being dealt to them at all. This attack never seems to miss when I shoot it out as the trip is a very good indication if it went off correctely or not, but the dmg output is bugged a lot.
Also after this move, wraps seem to sometimes lose all effects (see momentum swing)

6- Devestating critical (+1 crit multiplier on 19-20)
Not applying, still doing the same crit numbers as before

7- Pulverizer (+1 crit thread range on blund weaps)
Not showing up on char sheet, not applying eather as I dont seem to crit on 18s like I am suppose to with this ability.

8- Masters Blitz (Epic moment)
This abilty works fine once activated, only issue that I really have with it is the VERY long activate time. To be standing still as a monk for literly 5-6 seconds looking like you are praying to activate it is way too long. Should activate at the speed of a regular action boost. Problem with this long activate time is by the time you can start doing your very first attack, you only have like 8-9seconds left on your masters blitz, so instead of 15sec to kill a guy and get an extra stack, you actually really only have those 8-9seconds to make your first kill. Once a mob killed, you go to 15seconds and it aint buggy at all after that stage.
Second, also a huge issue is the loss of stacks when zoning, shrining, dying, but I wont go too much in detail about it as Shade has made a very well explained post about this severe problem.


All in all, Dreadnought has the potential to be a very good destiny but it is as of this stage packed with issues and bugs and just annoying problems. Defnately wraps have to be relooked in the entire code, coz lets face it, Grandmaster flowersniffer is just a joke of a monk tree for STR-based monks, and dreadnought is by far the way to go. A lot of monks will choose dreadnought as their path so wraps have to be fixed and included in this tree.

[Nick_RC]

Sorry in advance but am hearing different reports:

Are the dreadnought boosts stackable(I.e dual boosting) with either class or racial boosts? Maybe its bugged either way so aDev reply would be great whether the intention is there or not.

Cheers

N

[legendlore]

a bit curious about Master's blitz. It says "The master's blitz counter increments each time a tactical feat is successfully used".

Does this mean Stunning blow, Trip etc? As in bought/class gained feats?

Shouldn't there be some ability in the destiny that allowed for earning Epic moment points? As is I can see that it is probably very powerful for monks but there are melees without a single tactical feat.

Maybe I'm just missing something obvious (I've just started looking into this tree), but it seems like all the other destinies have mechanics that allow any class to use their Epic moment.

[DnD3]

Anyone here tested to see if you can have Fighter Haste and Legendary Dreadnought Damage boost at the same time? Also I take it LD Damage Boost does not stack with human and half elf versatility damage boost?

[Melondrop]

Can someone explain anything thats good about this for a twf fighter without cleave or combat expertise?
Seems like alot of the destiny for me is kinda meh and geared towards thf.
...maybe im missing something.
The improved pa and sunder abilities sound nice, but i dont get whats up with tier 4.
Do any of the 100 damage abilities in tier 4 work with khopesh?

Far as masters blitz goes it says..
For 10 seconds, you gain +50% dodge and deal +25% melee damage. Any time you kill an opponent while under the effects of Master's blitz, you gain an additional stack of melee damage bonus and restart duration.

So does that mean if i cant kill something in under 10 seconds then i pretty much wasted the blitz?

[jejeba86]

Can someone explain anything thats good about this for a twf fighter without cleave or combat expertise?

All of this is better for twf:

Combat brute (required 20): (Passive) You gain +1[W] damage with melee weapons and deal +50% to helpless opponents while any action boost is active

Improved power attack (min level: 20 - Feat prereq: Power attack) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 6secs) When PA is active you gain +0.5[W] with melee weapons
Critical damage (min level: 20) (3 ranks - 1 AP): (Passive) +2 damage on critical hits (before multiplier)
Volcano's edge (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack: On hit: 100 fire damage. On critical, target takes incineration damage. On Vorpal, target fire vulnerability increased by 100% for 10 seconds. Require kama, knife, sickle or sword
Lightning Mace (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On hit: 100 electrical damage. On critical: gain 15% melee double strike for 6 seconds. On vorpal target elecrtical vulnerability increased by 100%. Requires a club, greatclub, mac, morningstar or quaterstaff.
Anvil of thunder (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On Hit: 100 sonic damage. On critical: Target is dazed for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: Target is stunned for 6 seconds. Requires an axe, hammer or pick.
Advancing blows (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) On melee critical hit, you gain: +1 to hit and damage for 6 seconds. Stacks 5 times.
Devastating critical (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) +1 critical damage mulitplier on rolls of 19-20
Pulverizer (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) Increases critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1
Headman's chop (min level: 20 - Prereq: Devastating critical 1)(1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) When you have an axe equipped in your main hand, you gain an additional +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.

Do any of the 100 damage abilities in tier 4 work with khopesh?

Volcano's Edge. Khopesh is a sword.

Far as masters blitz goes it says..
For 10 seconds, you gain +50% dodge and deal +25% melee damage. Any time you kill an opponent while under the effects of Master's blitz, you gain an additional stack of melee damage bonus and restart duration.

So does that mean if i cant kill something in under 10 seconds then i pretty much wasted the blitz?

Yes, it means. But now should be 15s. It's extremely powerfull when used under the right circumstances and strategies. Wanna know if it's worthy?

I know its not gonna happen all that often but you get your stacks going on blitz high enough and have enough mobs to keep it going look out omg. Just ran full 50 stack for over 3 minutes in the red dragon challenge. Dragon himself dropped in about 10 swings still had half of my haste boost going.

Almost 2k per regular non crit swing crits were over 8k.

You start racking up enough stacks of this its crazy and as long as the mobs keep coming theres no ending it.

[Belfaze]

Can we get clarification on this:

Legendary dreadnought

Tier 4 (12 points required)
Tactical genius (min level: 20 - Prereq: Combat expertise) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 5mins) Activate to clear cooldown of all tactical feats
Volcano's edge (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack: On hit: 100 fire damage. On critical, target takes incineration damage. On Vorpal, target fire vulnerability increased by 100% for 10 seconds. Require kama, knife, sickle or sword
Lightning Mace (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On hit: 100 electrical damage. On critical: gain 15% melee double strike for 6 seconds. On vorpal target elecrtical vulnerability increased by 100%. Requires a club, greatclub, mac, morningstar or quaterstaff.
Anvil of thunder (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Active Cooldown: 12secs) Melee attack attack: On Hit: 100 sonic damage. On critical: Target is dazed for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: Target is stunned for 6 seconds. Requires an axe, hammer or pick.

Volcanoes Edge "sword" covers all: long sword, short sword, bastard sword, khopesh, falchion, great sword, rapier, scimitar?

Anvil of thunder "axe" covers all: dwarven axe, greataxe, battleaxe, handaxe?

Also, do these effects proc on thrown weapons, ie: Dart (count as sword?), Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer?