Epic Destinies General Feedback

[DeathsApprentice]

Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).

^ this. If I want to play a Cleric-based Magister or a Sorceror-based Angel of Vengeance (for example), I should be able to, without being gimped. As it is, some of the abilities will still be useless, but at least the core ability of my class (i.e. casting) shouldn't suffer.

Anything else just pigeonholes certain classes into certain destinies.

[Urjak]

various issues here^^:

various abilities state something like "deals xd6 per caster level", without specifying which caster type is meant ... sorc? wiz? clr?, ... or the highest one, no matter what? all levels of classes with spellcasting added up? ... overall i think they should be simply changed to be based on character level ... would also make it easier for multiclass toons

Casters and epic destinies

Personally I am able to handle up to 42 hotkeys:
F1-F12 for party-member targeting
NumPad0-9: primary spells
Ctrl + NumPad0-9: secondary spells
Alt + NumPad0-9: tertiary spells

thats it sorry folks ... i know some people are able to handle more, I am not ... I already have difficulties with those 42 (most of the time 30, as I currently don't have a divine anymore, but that will change soon^^)

My current sorc setup is:
NumPad0-9: OID, Healscroll, Wind Dance, Haste, Web, Lightning Bolt SLA, CSW pots, Eladars, FoD, Wail
Ctrl + NP0-9: Shocking Grasp SLA, Displacement, Disco, Rage, Ice Storm, Chainlightning, Polar Ray, Elemental Weakness, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death
Alt + NP0-9: Niacs Ray, Primary Weapon Set, Mindfog, Mass Prot of E., Solid Fog, Electric Loop SLA, Frost Lance, Niacs DoT, Disintegrate, Cloudkill

Spells needed to switch in for certain quests: 2: meteor swarm, reconstruct

with draconic incarnation destiny there are now 7 more spells to fit on the hotbar:
go out with a bang, Flyby attack, draconic fury, energy burst, energy vortex, dragon breath and fearsome invulnerability

thus it gets really tight ... my new setup is:
NumPad0-9: OID, Healscroll, Wind Dance, Haste, Web, Lightning Bolt SLA, Go out with a Bang, Eladars, FoD, Wail
Ctrl + NP0-9: Shocking Grasp SLA, Displacement, Flyby attack, Rage, Ice Storm, Chainlightning, Polar Ray, Elemental Weakness, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death
Alt + NP0-9: Meteor Swarm, Primary Weapon Set, Fearsome Invulnerability, Energy Vortex, Energy Burst, Electric Loop SLA, Draconic Fury, Niacs SLA, Disintegrate, Dragonbreath

Spells needed to switch in for certain quests: 7: Disco, Mindfog, Cloudkill, Solid Fog, Mass Prot, Frost Lance, Reconstruct

Spells/pots dismissed: 2: CSW pots, Niacs Ray

as one can see ... its really tough to fit in all the new stuff, resulting in a very tightly focused setup :/

[Urjak]

oh and what i forgot:

already complained about that on closed beta:

all those CL increases are rather meh for sorcs, since all spells have rather low max caster levels ... what is really needed are more max CL increases ... especially of the lower level spells

[KielbasaBeta]

various issues here^^:

various abilities state something like "deals xd6 per caster level", without specifying which caster type is meant ... sorc? wiz? clr?, ... or the highest one, no matter what? all levels of classes with spellcasting added up? ... overall i think they should be simply changed to be based on character level ... would also make it easier for multiclass toons

Casters and epic destinies

Personally I am able to handle up to 42 hotkeys:
F1-F12 for party-member targeting
NumPad0-9: primary spells
Ctrl + NumPad0-9: secondary spells
Alt + NumPad0-9: tertiary spells

thats it sorry folks ... i know some people are able to handle more, I am not ... I already have difficulties with those 42 (most of the time 30, as I currently don't have a divine anymore, but that will change soon^^)

My current sorc setup is:
NumPad0-9: OID, Healscroll, Wind Dance, Haste, Web, Lightning Bolt SLA, CSW pots, Eladars, FoD, Wail
Ctrl + NP0-9: Shocking Grasp SLA, Displacement, Disco, Rage, Ice Storm, Chainlightning, Polar Ray, Elemental Weakness, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death
Alt + NP0-9: Niacs Ray, Primary Weapon Set, Mindfog, Mass Prot of E., Solid Fog, Electric Loop SLA, Frost Lance, Niacs DoT, Disintegrate, Cloudkill

Spells needed to switch in for certain quests: 2: meteor swarm, reconstruct

with draconic incarnation destiny there are now 7 more spells to fit on the hotbar:
go out with a bang, Flyby attack, draconic fury, energy burst, energy vortex, dragon breath and fearsome invulnerability

thus it gets really tight ... my new setup is:
NumPad0-9: OID, Healscroll, Wind Dance, Haste, Web, Lightning Bolt SLA, Go out with a Bang, Eladars, FoD, Wail
Ctrl + NP0-9: Shocking Grasp SLA, Displacement, Flyby attack, Rage, Ice Storm, Chainlightning, Polar Ray, Elemental Weakness, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death
Alt + NP0-9: Meteor Swarm, Primary Weapon Set, Fearsome Invulnerability, Energy Vortex, Energy Burst, Electric Loop SLA, Draconic Fury, Niacs SLA, Disintegrate, Dragonbreath

Spells needed to switch in for certain quests: 7: Disco, Mindfog, Cloudkill, Solid Fog, Mass Prot, Frost Lance, Reconstruct

Spells/pots dismissed: 2: CSW pots, Niacs Ray

as one can see ... its really tough to fit in all the new stuff, resulting in a very tightly focused setup :/

If your mouse has thumb buttons bind them to toggle up and down hotbars. I personally never use anything other than 1 through 6 but I toggle through hotbars like mad. This lets me constantly move with wasd while keeping everything close enough to use. I just have to remember what theme each hotbar is about so I can find which ability/skill or item I want to use. I have to play this way due to playing at a low resolution and can only have 4 hotbars visable at a given time. Just a thought if your current setup is too much to deal with.

[sephiroth1084]

various issues here^^:

various abilities state something like "deals xd6 per caster level", without specifying which caster type is meant ... sorc? wiz? clr?, ... or the highest one, no matter what? all levels of classes with spellcasting added up? ... overall i think they should be simply changed to be based on character level ... would also make it easier for multiclass toons

Casters and epic destinies

Personally I am able to handle up to 42 hotkeys:
F1-F12 for party-member targeting
NumPad0-9: primary spells
Ctrl + NumPad0-9: secondary spells
Alt + NumPad0-9: tertiary spells

thats it sorry folks ... i know some people are able to handle more, I am not ... I already have difficulties with those 42 (most of the time 30, as I currently don't have a divine anymore, but that will change soon^^)

My current sorc setup is:
NumPad0-9: OID, Healscroll, Wind Dance, Haste, Web, Lightning Bolt SLA, CSW pots, Eladars, FoD, Wail
Ctrl + NP0-9: Shocking Grasp SLA, Displacement, Disco, Rage, Ice Storm, Chainlightning, Polar Ray, Elemental Weakness, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death
Alt + NP0-9: Niacs Ray, Primary Weapon Set, Mindfog, Mass Prot of E., Solid Fog, Electric Loop SLA, Frost Lance, Niacs DoT, Disintegrate, Cloudkill

Spells needed to switch in for certain quests: 2: meteor swarm, reconstruct

with draconic incarnation destiny there are now 7 more spells to fit on the hotbar:
go out with a bang, Flyby attack, draconic fury, energy burst, energy vortex, dragon breath and fearsome invulnerability

thus it gets really tight ... my new setup is:
NumPad0-9: OID, Healscroll, Wind Dance, Haste, Web, Lightning Bolt SLA, Go out with a Bang, Eladars, FoD, Wail
Ctrl + NP0-9: Shocking Grasp SLA, Displacement, Flyby attack, Rage, Ice Storm, Chainlightning, Polar Ray, Elemental Weakness, Energy Drain, Symbol of Death
Alt + NP0-9: Meteor Swarm, Primary Weapon Set, Fearsome Invulnerability, Energy Vortex, Energy Burst, Electric Loop SLA, Draconic Fury, Niacs SLA, Disintegrate, Dragonbreath

Spells needed to switch in for certain quests: 7: Disco, Mindfog, Cloudkill, Solid Fog, Mass Prot, Frost Lance, Reconstruct

Spells/pots dismissed: 2: CSW pots, Niacs Ray

as one can see ... its really tough to fit in all the new stuff, resulting in a very tightly focused setup :/

You might benefit from moving some of those long duration, infrequently casted spells to hotbars you don't have keyed, to click on when you need them. It cuts down on buttons you have to bother with.

[DarkSable]

I actually like the EDs the way they are; my only comment is:

Holy XP grind, Batman!

Seriously, in beta 4 we had +200% exp and I was thinking (Okay, this is going to suck, it's grindy even with the 200% bonus.)

Then we went to live, and the exp needed to level the destinies got raised by a fairly large amount. This, to me, is rather painful, because I'm a casual player; one who doesn't like grind. I'll do it when it's required, but the exp grind necessary to cap ONE destiny, let alone unlock fate points and twists in the others, is bordering on the insane.

[Xaxx]

I actually like the EDs the way they are; my only comment is:

Holy XP grind, Batman!

Seriously, in beta 4 we had +200% exp and I was thinking (Okay, this is going to suck, it's grindy even with the 200% bonus.)

Then we went to live, and the exp needed to level the destinies got raised by a fairly large amount. This, to me, is rather painful, because I'm a casual player; one who doesn't like grind. I'll do it when it's required, but the exp grind necessary to cap ONE destiny, let alone unlock fate points and twists in the others, is bordering on the insane.

hence its called epic???? maybe????

[DarkSable]

hence its called epic???? maybe????

Epic doesn't have to mean "Run this one quest a dozen times. And then run the next one a dozen times."
If your definition of epic is 'repeating something till you blow the back of your skull out', than I'm sorry.
To me, epic is a challenge that leaves you sweating - not a grind that leaves you crying.

[Urjak]

If your mouse has thumb buttons bind them to toggle up and down hotbars. I personally never use anything other than 1 through 6 but I toggle through hotbars like mad. This lets me constantly move with wasd while keeping everything close enough to use. I just have to remember what theme each hotbar is about so I can find which ability/skill or item I want to use. I have to play this way due to playing at a low resolution and can only have 4 hotbars visable at a given time. Just a thought if your current setup is too much to deal with.

i am playing casters without a mouse ... left hand on wasd, right hand on numpad ... only playing some melees with a mouse in mouselook mode (mainly barb, ftr, pal, rgr and rogue) ... they don't have so many abilities that need to be activate in mid-combat ... and the few that need like assassinate, cleave, supreme cleave, etc. can be tied to my 2 extra mousebuttons ... for boost i quickly leave the mouse and press the hotkey^^

You might benefit from moving some of those long duration, infrequently casted spells to hotbars you don't have keyed, to click on when you need them. It cuts down on buttons you have to bother with.

yeah that was my solution ... Disco, Mindfog, Cloudkill, Solid Fog, Mass Prot, Frost Lance, Reconstruct and Niacs Ray are spells i only use now and then on my sorc ... thus i moved them on other hotbars ... since i am super slow when it comes to clicking on stuff with my mouse (or touchpad, since i am often playing on my notebook^^), I ll now almost never use them :/

[WolfSpirit]

I searched for information, but to no avail.
Any word on if/when Artificers will have access to (ANY) Destinys on Preview?

Or am I missing something... Still greyed out.

Edit:
Greyed out for all my characters. As I am still waiting for finances to align properly to justify usage of disposable income on a game (family desires trump Dads) I still havent purchased the expansion. Must be thickly tied in there.
Often, I like answering my own questions. This time it makes me just a little sad.
:Nothing to see here:
:-)

[kingfisher]

Use this thread to provide general feedback about the Epic Destiny system!

If you have feedback regarding a particular epic destiny, please visit their specific threads stickied at the top of this forum!

in general, they suck for all twf builds. in general, they really suck for tempest rangers. in general, the class restricted first choice unlock is mean, just let us pick already. in general, the hoops you have to jump through to get from one sphere to the next are ridiculous, and a shameless time sink for your dedicated players. in general, boo.

[Valakai]

Well for my FvS I'm looking at Draconic Incarnation and Exalted Angel. The grind to unlock is painful with bunch of stuff in the between that I really could not care less about. I dont mind buying some of those unlocks adjacent destiny thingies from store but man just feels a bit excessive going from:

Draconic Inc ->
Fatesinger (nothing for me) - >
Shadow Dancer (very little of interest to me)->
Grandmaster of Flowers (nothing) ->
Unyelding sentinel (this being only one in the between that holds any interest)
-> Exalted Angel.

Would really love to see something to make it a tad bit easier to reach these instead of forcing me to grind out a bunch of destinies I have no need for...

[Thalmor]

In my quick review of the Epic Destinies avaliable to Rangers ( Fury of the Wild or Shiradi Champion) I noticed a very important ommision:

Where are improvements to damage/Attack vs Ranger Favored Enemies?
What about gaining additional Favoried Enemies?

Or did I miss Something

[jejeba86]

In my quick review of the Epic Destinies avaliable to Rangers ( Fury of the Wild or Shiradi Champion) I noticed a very important ommision:

Where are improvements to damage/Attack vs Ranger Favored Enemies?
What about gaining additional Favoried Enemies?

Or did I miss Something

You miss the fact that the destinies aren't specifically related to classes, and no destiny presented till now was based on ranger class.

[JOTMON]

It needs to be easier to move from one destiny to the next, especially if we cannot select any destiny we choose as our first "free" unlock. Ranged focused artificers shouldn't have to level through 2 or 3 destinies to get to an Epic Destiny that makes more sense for them. Twists of Fate are already a strong enough reason to spend more time in various destinies without also forcing some characters to level through 3 or 4 levels of 2-3 destinies in order to get to the stuff they actually want.

Tying +1 caster level to epic destinies is a problem. At the very least, all caster-centric destinies should grant +1 CL without specifying arcane or divine. One of the stated goals of the Epic Destinies was for each destiny to be attractive to multiple classes and roles, but with the way caster levels work right now, a wizard can't comfortably jump into Exalted Angel, and a cleric can't comfortably jump into Magister. The fact that in order to get from one of those destinies to other also means spending quite a bit of time without caster level bonuses (or any caster bonuses at all) due to the way the spheres are set up makes matters much worse.

I'd really prefer to be able to select any destiny for free upon hitting 20 for the first time on a character. Thereafter, we should be able to progress to any other destiny within our sphere after achieving 1 level in any destiny within that sphere, and can select any destiny in an adjacent sphere after achieving level 2 in any destiny within your current sphere.

Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).

^This

There should not be a forced start point for Epic destinies.
There should be a choice to select your starting destiny, then you go from there.
A WF FVS should be able to select the Melee destiny as a start point and not be forced to build across to it.

These are supposed to be generic Epic levels not forced pidgeon-holing and then have to work your way out of it.

Caster Levels should also be generic/arcane.

in general, they suck for all twf builds. in general, they really suck for tempest rangers. in general, the class restricted first choice unlock is mean, just let us pick already. in general, the hoops you have to jump through to get from one sphere to the next are ridiculous, and a shameless time sink for your dedicated players. in general, boo.

Agreed,

TWF are not represented well here, forced rages for bluebar classes dont work well (might be ok for all the Drizzt wannabe builds).

I am sure it is not easy to select a few Destines from the 80ish Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies out there and tie them into the vision for DDO...

A look at Ranger review of Destinies...
http://community.wizards.com/charop/...Epic_Destinies
Ugh, The WoTC WIKI is rough to navigate...

Hopefully we see something come out of this that give offers 2WF Rangers, Kensai, & splash builds, etc... some decent viable Destiny that does not rely on Raging. a Focussed melee line like..

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Classes
Slayer (has FE enhancments)
War Mind(Insight STR&Con, DR)
or even....
Blade Dancer
Pathfinder
Demon Slayer

[stricq]

I've seen lots of people talk about this but I'll throw in my two cents.

We need to be able to choose ANY Epic Destiny at any time when we are eligible to switch destinies. Being locked into a certain two or three and then having to unlock, unlock, unlock, etc (read GRIND) to get to the destiny that makes the most sense is the epitome of a broken feature in DDO at this time.

A ranged spec'd fighter has to take Legendary Dreadnaught where absolutely NONE of the skills therein make any sense to a ranged fighter is crazy. (And remember ranged feats are also class feats for a fighter!) You have to go through three (I think) levels as an absolute GIMPed epic character before you can start building out Shiradi Champion, and then you are three levels behind where you should be in ability. This mechanic is so utterly broken it hurts.

[danotmano1998]

Each ED fully leveled (XP wise) is 1,980,000

There are 10 of them currently

That is 19,800,000!

I swear they make these things this way because inevitably someone decides to spend their life locked up away from reality in their parent's basement and then comes back to the forums boasting: "I made epic completionist in a week!!! And I only had to not sleep, eat, use the restroom, or make any kind of responsible choice with my life to do it!"

EDIT: Can you guys just let us choose our starting destiny? Please? This at least says "Yeah, we made it a ridiculous grind, but at least we didn't make it so you HAD to grind endlessly just getting to the part you wanted to start at in the first place."

[die]

My opinion on this is ,

i dont like being pigeonhold, but i dont think we should be able too just pick any epic destiney. Maybe they should make a Preq. for the destineys like with PNP Prestige classes meet the the preq. get the Destiney thats what ide like too see.

[~Quilny]

what is the max number of epic destiny poitns 1 person can have? also if someone has already stacked 3 lifes of same class there only way to unlock destiny is to use ddo points?

[B0ltdrag0n]

what is the max number of epic destiny poitns 1 person can have? also if someone has already stacked 3 lifes of same class there only way to unlock destiny is to use ddo points?

24 AP per destiny tree. You can always unlock additional trees without using store points.