Epic Destinies General Feedback

[Tolero]

Use this thread to provide general feedback about the Epic Destiny system!

If you have feedback regarding a particular epic destiny, please visit their specific threads stickied at the top of this forum!

[sephiroth1084]

It needs to be easier to move from one destiny to the next, especially if we cannot select any destiny we choose as our first "free" unlock. Ranged focused artificers shouldn't have to level through 2 or 3 destinies to get to an Epic Destiny that makes more sense for them. Twists of Fate are already a strong enough reason to spend more time in various destinies without also forcing some characters to level through 3 or 4 levels of 2-3 destinies in order to get to the stuff they actually want.

Tying +1 caster level to epic destinies is a problem. At the very least, all caster-centric destinies should grant +1 CL without specifying arcane or divine. One of the stated goals of the Epic Destinies was for each destiny to be attractive to multiple classes and roles, but with the way caster levels work right now, a wizard can't comfortably jump into Exalted Angel, and a cleric can't comfortably jump into Magister. The fact that in order to get from one of those destinies to other also means spending quite a bit of time without caster level bonuses (or any caster bonuses at all) due to the way the spheres are set up makes matters much worse.

I'd really prefer to be able to select any destiny for free upon hitting 20 for the first time on a character. Thereafter, we should be able to progress to any other destiny within our sphere after achieving 1 level in any destiny within that sphere, and can select any destiny in an adjacent sphere after achieving level 2 in any destiny within your current sphere.

Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).

[Carpone]

Tying +1 caster level to epic destinies is a problem. At the very least, all caster-centric destinies should grant +1 CL without specifying arcane or divine. One of the stated goals of the Epic Destinies was for each destiny to be attractive to multiple classes and roles, but with the way caster levels work right now, a wizard can't comfortably jump into Exalted Angel, and a cleric can't comfortably jump into Magister. The fact that in order to get from one of those destinies to other also means spending quite a bit of time without caster level bonuses (or any caster bonuses at all) due to the way the spheres are set up makes matters much worse.

Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).

- The amount of levelling required in destinies that don't synergize with your character build and concept needs to be sharply decreased.

Allowing players to start in the destiny of their choice would be much appreciated.

Locking us into an area not of our choice seems counterproductive to allowing multiclasses in Heroic levels.

All excellent points. I hope Turbine designers pay close attention to these points.

[sephiroth1084]

All excellent points. I hope Turbine designers pay close attention to these points.

They aren't.

[DeathsApprentice]

Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).

^ this. If I want to play a Cleric-based Magister or a Sorceror-based Angel of Vengeance (for example), I should be able to, without being gimped. As it is, some of the abilities will still be useless, but at least the core ability of my class (i.e. casting) shouldn't suffer.

Anything else just pigeonholes certain classes into certain destinies.

[Urjak]

oh and what i forgot:

already complained about that on closed beta:

all those CL increases are rather meh for sorcs, since all spells have rather low max caster levels ... what is really needed are more max CL increases ... especially of the lower level spells

[DarkSable]

I actually like the EDs the way they are; my only comment is:

Holy XP grind, Batman!

Seriously, in beta 4 we had +200% exp and I was thinking (Okay, this is going to suck, it's grindy even with the 200% bonus.)

Then we went to live, and the exp needed to level the destinies got raised by a fairly large amount. This, to me, is rather painful, because I'm a casual player; one who doesn't like grind. I'll do it when it's required, but the exp grind necessary to cap ONE destiny, let alone unlock fate points and twists in the others, is bordering on the insane.

[Xaxx]

I actually like the EDs the way they are; my only comment is:

Holy XP grind, Batman!

Seriously, in beta 4 we had +200% exp and I was thinking (Okay, this is going to suck, it's grindy even with the 200% bonus.)

Then we went to live, and the exp needed to level the destinies got raised by a fairly large amount. This, to me, is rather painful, because I'm a casual player; one who doesn't like grind. I'll do it when it's required, but the exp grind necessary to cap ONE destiny, let alone unlock fate points and twists in the others, is bordering on the insane.

hence its called epic???? maybe????

[DarkSable]

hence its called epic???? maybe????

Epic doesn't have to mean "Run this one quest a dozen times. And then run the next one a dozen times."
If your definition of epic is 'repeating something till you blow the back of your skull out', than I'm sorry.
To me, epic is a challenge that leaves you sweating - not a grind that leaves you crying.

[Valakai]

Well for my FvS I'm looking at Draconic Incarnation and Exalted Angel. The grind to unlock is painful with bunch of stuff in the between that I really could not care less about. I dont mind buying some of those unlocks adjacent destiny thingies from store but man just feels a bit excessive going from:

Draconic Inc ->
Fatesinger (nothing for me) - >
Shadow Dancer (very little of interest to me)->
Grandmaster of Flowers (nothing) ->
Unyelding sentinel (this being only one in the between that holds any interest)
-> Exalted Angel.

Would really love to see something to make it a tad bit easier to reach these instead of forcing me to grind out a bunch of destinies I have no need for...

[die]

My opinion on this is ,

i dont like being pigeonhold, but i dont think we should be able too just pick any epic destiney. Maybe they should make a Preq. for the destineys like with PNP Prestige classes meet the the preq. get the Destiney thats what ide like too see.

[JOTMON]

It needs to be easier to move from one destiny to the next, especially if we cannot select any destiny we choose as our first "free" unlock. Ranged focused artificers shouldn't have to level through 2 or 3 destinies to get to an Epic Destiny that makes more sense for them. Twists of Fate are already a strong enough reason to spend more time in various destinies without also forcing some characters to level through 3 or 4 levels of 2-3 destinies in order to get to the stuff they actually want.

Tying +1 caster level to epic destinies is a problem. At the very least, all caster-centric destinies should grant +1 CL without specifying arcane or divine. One of the stated goals of the Epic Destinies was for each destiny to be attractive to multiple classes and roles, but with the way caster levels work right now, a wizard can't comfortably jump into Exalted Angel, and a cleric can't comfortably jump into Magister. The fact that in order to get from one of those destinies to other also means spending quite a bit of time without caster level bonuses (or any caster bonuses at all) due to the way the spheres are set up makes matters much worse.

I'd really prefer to be able to select any destiny for free upon hitting 20 for the first time on a character. Thereafter, we should be able to progress to any other destiny within our sphere after achieving 1 level in any destiny within that sphere, and can select any destiny in an adjacent sphere after achieving level 2 in any destiny within your current sphere.

Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).

^This

There should not be a forced start point for Epic destinies.
There should be a choice to select your starting destiny, then you go from there.
A WF FVS should be able to select the Melee destiny as a start point and not be forced to build across to it.

These are supposed to be generic Epic levels not forced pidgeon-holing and then have to work your way out of it.

Caster Levels should also be generic/arcane.

in general, they suck for all twf builds. in general, they really suck for tempest rangers. in general, the class restricted first choice unlock is mean, just let us pick already. in general, the hoops you have to jump through to get from one sphere to the next are ridiculous, and a shameless time sink for your dedicated players. in general, boo.

Agreed,

TWF are not represented well here, forced rages for bluebar classes dont work well (might be ok for all the Drizzt wannabe builds).

I am sure it is not easy to select a few Destines from the 80ish Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies out there and tie them into the vision for DDO...

A look at Ranger review of Destinies...
http://community.wizards.com/charop/...Epic_Destinies
Ugh, The WoTC WIKI is rough to navigate...

Hopefully we see something come out of this that give offers 2WF Rangers, Kensai, & splash builds, etc... some decent viable Destiny that does not rely on Raging. a Focussed melee line like..

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Classes
Slayer (has FE enhancments)
War Mind(Insight STR&Con, DR)
or even....
Blade Dancer
Pathfinder
Demon Slayer

[sirgog]

- The amount of levelling required in destinies that don't synergize with your character build and concept needs to be sharply decreased.

Example, minor: To get to Unyielding Sentinel, a Fighter tank needs to reach level 4 in Grandmaster of Flowers. Silly requirement but not the end of the world, and that tree does have some useful abilities to an armored tank.
Example, major: To get to Magister, a DC-oriented divine caster needs to reach level 4 in Unyielding Sentinel, level 3 in Grandmaster of Flowers, level 4 in Shadowdancer and finally level 3 in Fatespinner. Ouch. I really don't see a non-synergistic build like FvS20/Shadowdancer3 being particularly fun for most people to play.

For people looking to absolutely optimize their character (maximum Twists of Fate) this is fine (you'd want those destinies levelled anyway) but for so many non-melee characters to have to pass through the martial sphere just strikes me as odd.


- Some extremely powerful effects that are presently Twistable might be better off as innate to a specific Destiny. Thinking +2 spell DC effects and similar. These effects really undermine build options as they become so good that characters without them are basically gimped (just as on Live right now, Power Attack and Improved Critical:Slashing are so powerful that non-monk melee builds without them are gimped, which sharply reduces build options)

I'd rather we are Twisting 'cool' effects like Energy Sheath: Acid that have unique effects, rather than three cookie-cutter 'I'm 2-10% better at what I do' effects.



Finally I share Sephiroth's comments re. caster level increases, especially given that players will spend significant time out of 'their sphere' chasing Twists. Epic character levels should autogrant +1 to all caster levels and these effects should be removed from trees (or limited to +1 or +2 caster levels deep in trees where this might make sense, perhaps at high level having Draconic Incarnation: Black granting +1 or +2 Acid spell caster level and possibly also -1 or -2 to Electric spells).

[Captain_Wizbang]

- The amount of levelling required in destinies that don't synergize with your character build and concept needs to be sharply decreased.

Example, minor: To get to Unyielding Sentinel, a Fighter tank needs to reach level 4 in Grandmaster of Flowers. .

This makes no sense. Good point sirgog.

The whole idea of weaving through other parts of the tree needs tweaking, and then some. As stated by several about the beginning of your destiny needs some love, and a FREE swap is also a great idea.
As for the price of the "buy out" from the store, that needs to be realistic.

The way it stands now, you'll have people loving it, and grinding away.
And you'll have others not wanting to have anything to do with it!

[aerendhil]

-Example, major: To get to Magister, a DC-oriented divine caster needs to reach level 4 in Unyielding Sentinel, level 3 in Grandmaster of Flowers, level 4 in Shadowdancer and finally level 3 in Fatespinner. Ouch. I really don't see a non-synergistic build like FvS20/Shadowdancer3 being particularly fun for most people to play.

I totally agree that the actual mechanic is annoying.

But I don't understand your example : why would a divine caster want to be a magister ? it only grants additionnal caster lever for arcane spells. Could you explain what combo you see there ?

[Angelus_dead]

But I don't understand your example : why would a divine caster want to be a magister ? it only grants additionnal caster lever for arcane spells. Could you explain what combo you see there ?

He must be hoping for an Epic Destiny that'll raise spell DC and caster-level cap. Magister will do that, and some of the other features are helpful, but of course the -5 caster level will hurt a little; mostly in spell pen. The majority of spells don't benefit from caster level.

[threefeetunder]

Maybe I was just spoiled by the closed beta, but the amount of plat needed to reset your destiny (showed as over 100.000plat) seems a wee excessive for us cash impaired folks D:

[CarpeNoctu]

Maybe I was just spoiled by the closed beta, but the amount of plat needed to reset your destiny (showed as over 100.000plat) seems a wee excessive for us cash impaired folks D:

Totally agree with this...

And, what is the Loom or Loop or whatever that was mentioned as an alternative to plat?

[phalaeo]

Totally agree with this...

And, what is the Loom or Loop or whatever that was mentioned as an alternative to plat?

Loom is a reset available in the DDO Store, of course!

I agree with the others that the plat cost to change is TOO D*MN HIGH!!! Especially as it's new and people will want to try out different things.

Agreed with Sephiroth and Sirgog that it's a bummer to have to spend a huge amount of time in maaaaany Destinies, as for a DC cleric to want to get to Magister. Of course, you couldn't just add to Cleric DCs, could you? But you won't. Because you hate Clerics having anything powerful....

Allow us to start in the destiny we want. We can already multiclass now, so what's the holdup?

[Udalric]

Loom is a reset available in the DDO Store, of course!

I agree with the others that the plat cost to change is TOO D*MN HIGH!!! Especially as it's new and people will want to try out different things.

Agreed with Sephiroth and Sirgog that it's a bummer to have to spend a huge amount of time in maaaaany Destinies, as for a DC cleric to want to get to Magister. Of course, you couldn't just add to Cleric DCs, could you? But you won't. Because you hate Clerics having anything powerful....

Allow us to start in the destiny we want. We can already multiclass now, so what's the holdup?

That's sad. They should just add +DC to Exalted angel - problem solved.... Oh i've forgot divines are just healbots/buffbots according to turbine so why they need additional DC and dmg?