Power Trippin'

[trog_star]

Disagreed. Trading away your DPS for survivability on a barb is ********, you want a self sufficient melee roll a paladin.

Divines can do BB and comet fall, I understand there needs to do something else but healing but they should keep in mind there primary job is to heal.

you wont like my cleric, at all

[Quetzacoala]

As things stand, when new players and experienced players intermix there is normally an unreasonable amount of friction; one group of players wants to take things slowly and the other wants to rush through the quest. Due to this, new players tend to play in groups composed primarily of other new players and experienced players tend to play in groups composed primarily of other experienced players.

Unfortunately, this leads to a rather serious problem; how are the inexperienced players supposed to improve without the assistance and advice of the experienced player base? The learning curve for new players learning from slightly more experienced, but still inexperienced, players is very slim, and it could very well take years for a new player to become competent in this manner. However, if experienced players are willing to take the time to go slowly when newer players are in their groups, the newer players would learn much faster this way.

You may be wondering how experienced players benefit from this, and I assure you that they do. Once they have taught the new players how to play their characters well, they have expanded the number of good players in the server and thus available to be grouped with. These characters would in turn help educate newer players, and so on and so forth.

[ShadowFlash]

As things stand, when new players and experienced players intermix there is normally an unreasonable amount of friction; one group of players wants to take things slowly and the other wants to rush through the quest. Due to this, new players tend to play in groups composed primarily of other new players and experienced players tend to play in groups composed primarily of other experienced players.

Unfortunately, this leads to a rather serious problem; how are the inexperienced players supposed to improve without the assistance and advice of the experienced player base? The learning curve for new players learning from slightly more experienced, but still inexperienced, players is very slim, and it could very well take years for a new player to become competent in this manner. However, if experienced players are willing to take the time to go slowly when newer players are in their groups, the newer players would learn much faster this way.

You may be wondering how experienced players benefit from this, and I assure you that they do. Once they have taught the new players how to play their characters well, they have expanded the number of good players in the server and thus available to be grouped with. These characters would in turn help educate newer players, and so on and so forth.

I +1'd you for this because it basically describes where my "crew" is at right now. We ARE inexperienced, but we are not idiots...we know rust monsters eat non-everbright weapons and such, yet every time we group with high levels are treated as if we don't know ANYTHING about this game. We play slow...we know we're slow...slow to us, means an easy completion. We don't disable a trap...we draw the mobs through it first to let them kill themselves. We push to shrine...than push out from there. We clear EVERY mob in a quest. We can't fathom how one does NOT get conquest bonus.

We're trying to learn things like "efficiency" and such, but there really is no curve. It's simply an all or nothing approach. Our style is diametrically oppossed to a TR's style. This makes it next to impossible to learn anything. When an experienced TR farmer joins our small group, they think they are "helping" us by zerging across the map. We wrongfully try to keep up...and because the playstyle is so different, it usually doesn't end well.

I'm personally in the situation right now, that we look like complete noobs in quests runningwith vets, when if we ran it slow and "our way" we'd have every bonus and no deaths. This doesn't mean we are right, and the vet is wrong...far from it! what this means, is we're having extreme difficulty bridging this gap, and transversing into a more efficient approach to leveling.

TR junkies (and that is not intended as a slight by any means) HAVE to worry about effeciency. I understand that. I understand spending an hour in a quest, and still losing 10% due to my idiotic death is frustrating. It's frustrating to me as well, as this usually doesn't happen. It's only because I'm TRYING to push harder and learn that it does.

I think all the systems, such as bravery bonus and xp pots are fine as they are, I'm just looking for some appreciation of the fact, that most people have a difficult time making the leap to "good" EFFICIENT questing.

I mean no offense to anyone by this post, I just hope to represent the majority of casual, yet knowledgeable player out there like me who haven't been able to make this leap yet.

ShadowFlash

[Quetzacoala]

I +1'd you for this because it basically describes where my "crew" is at right now. We ARE inexperienced, but we are not idiots...we know rust monsters eat non-everbright weapons and such, yet every time we group with high levels are treated as if we don't know ANYTHING about this game. We play slow...we know we're slow...slow to us, means an easy completion. We don't disable a trap...we draw the mobs through it first to let them kill themselves. We push to shrine...than push out from there. We clear EVERY mob in a quest. We can't fathom how one does NOT get conquest bonus.

We're trying to learn things like "efficiency" and such, but there really is no curve. It's simply an all or nothing approach. Our style is diametrically oppossed to a TR's style. This makes it next to impossible to learn anything. When an experienced TR farmer joins our small group, they think they are "helping" us by zerging across the map. We wrongfully try to keep up...and because the playstyle is so different, it usually doesn't end well.

I'm personally in the situation right now, that we look like complete noobs in quests runningwith vets, when if we ran it slow and "our way" we'd have every bonus and no deaths. This doesn't mean we are right, and the vet is wrong...far from it! what this means, is we're having extreme difficulty bridging this gap, and transversing into a more efficient approach to leveling.

TR junkies (and that is not intended as a slight by any means) HAVE to worry about effeciency. I understand that. I understand spending an hour in a quest, and still losing 10% due to my idiotic death is frustrating. It's frustrating to me as well, as this usually doesn't happen. It's only because I'm TRYING to push harder and learn that it does.

I think all the systems, such as bravery bonus and xp pots are fine as they are, I'm just looking for some appreciation of the fact, that most people have a difficult time making the leap to "good" EFFICIENT questing.

I mean no offense to anyone by this post, I just hope to represent the majority of casual, yet knowledgeable player out there like me who haven't been able to make this leap yet.

ShadowFlash

I understand how you feel; it is very frustrating to be trying to improve and yet be hindered by the more experienced players being reluctant to group with those newer to the game. Even today I still experience this, for even though I have come a long way since I started I am still very much a new player in some content.

Quite frankly, I got lucky; I was fortunate to encounter a variety of experienced players who were glad to give me advice and even gear. Without this support, I doubt that I would be half as skilled as I am today.

What server are you on, as I have found Sarlona to be very helpful and supportive?

[ShadowFlash]

I understand how you feel; it is very frustrating to be trying to improve and yet be hindered by the more experienced players being reluctant to group with those newer to the game. Even today I still experience this, for even though I have come a long way since I started I am still very much a new player in some content.

Quite frankly, I got lucky; I was fortunate to encounter a variety of experienced players who were glad to give me advice and even gear. Without this support, I doubt that I would be half as skilled as I am today.

What server are you on, as I have found Sarlona to be very helpful and supportive?

I do have a support system in place right now. I am learning. My guild is very helpful in general. The problem stems from questing at a specific level. A multi-TR trying to get everything done before the expansion hits is VERY understandable. Every time one of my guildies takes time out form their goal to help me, they are in fact hurting themselves....either by losing xp in the TR group their in and therefore being behind (or left behind), or simply not being able to achieve their goal, which I consider more important then mine.

I don't know how to "fix" this disparity, or even if it needs fixing. All I wanted to point out is the difficulty in making this transition even with a helpful guild due to the diametrical difference in playtyles. I'm learning, or at least trying to, but it is a slow proccess.

ShadowFlash

[Quetzacoala]

I do have a support system in place right now. I am learning. My guild is very helpful in general. The problem stems from questing at a specific level. A multi-TR trying to get everything done before the expansion hits is VERY understandable. Every time one of my guildies takes time out form their goal to help me, they are in fact hurting themselves....either by losing xp in the TR group their in and therefore being behind (or left behind), or simply not being able to achieve their goal, which I consider more important then mine.

I don't know how to "fix" this disparity, or even if it needs fixing. All I wanted to point out is the difficulty in making this transition even with a helpful guild due to the diametrical difference in playtyles. I'm learning, or at least trying to, but it is a slow proccess.

ShadowFlash

For the most part, I completely agree with what you are saying; it is very understandable that a more experienced player would want to be at its most efficient in any given quest, and so helping you is a burden in the short term. However, as I said before, the better you get, the less of a burden and eventually you will become and asset.

Also, their goal is not more important than yours. This is not reality, it is a game, and so a new player trying to learn the ropes is just as important as a more lofty goal.

[~Quilny]

For the most part, I completely agree with what you are saying; it is very understandable that a more experienced player would want to be at its most efficient in any given quest, and so helping you is a burden in the short term. However, as I said before, the better you get, the less of a burden and eventually you will become and asset.

Also, their goal is not more important than yours. This is not reality, it is a game, and so a new player trying to learn the ropes is just as important as a more lofty goal.

helping isn't a burden whatso ever in fact he can pike if he wants to the real problem is he is f2p with not a lot of packs so most of the really good xp quest like necro 1 necro 2 von necro 4 vale reavers he cannot run.

I believe he has GH deleras and .. that might be it. it hurts to be f2p its slow going shadow just keep farmign that favor and buying more packs think right now packs are 30% off right?

speaking of discounts lg jewel of fortune coupon code JWL872'

[ShadowFlash]

helping isn't a burden whatso ever in fact he can pike if he wants to the real problem is he is f2p with not a lot of packs so most of the really good xp quest like necro 1 necro 2 von necro 4 vale reavers he cannot run.

I believe he has GH deleras and .. that might be it. it hurts to be f2p its slow going shadow just keep farmign that favor and buying more packs think right now packs are 30% off right?

speaking of discounts lg jewel of fortune coupon code JWL872'

Catacombs
Tangleroot
Delera's
Threnal
2nd 1/2 of Lordsmarch (whatever it's called)
Both Madness chains
Sands
Gianthold
Reavers
House C
1/3 of my household has shroud...waiting for all to have before we learn it.

Not to mention...
32-point builds
+2 supreme tomes
multiple races
etc...

Again, just cause I'm casual...doesn't mean I'm an automatic f2p noob...more like a very informed newb

Quite a bit more than just those 2 I believe I'm a far cry from f2p

The problem isn't the number of packs (obviously) but in the nature of these packs. All of these provided me with quite a lot of leveling loot my 1st run to 20 and nice items that are easily farmed. I'm beginning to see, however, that these are NOT the prefered LEVELING packs that most people run. I have my list, I've checked it twice, and will buy more packs in the future...hopefully soon.

ShadowFlash

Edit: I can't stress enough, my intent wasn't to cause drama...frankly, I hate drama....just a perspective on what the average premium player has to adjust to. The packs I bought were the recommended ones at the time. I held back on shroud just because I was nervous on raiding while still learning the game. I would suggest with the new xp bonuses in place, a new thread with recommended packs to buy is created to help avoid situations such as mine.

When I started buying packs, Necro 1-3 were on the worst thing to buy list, but now they are apparently regularly run during a TR proccess. Madness chains were hot **** when they first came out...now, no one runs them. House P was frowned upon as a premium players buy, now with levleing so easy, it's a no-brainer as an entry level epic. Lots of things have changed in the game.

[WoD-IroN]

This is just a random rant in response to a lot of different posts I've been seeing lately.

Personal pet peeve of mine are Power Trippers, prima donnas, of which there are a few common ones:
(1) The "healer" who lectures everyone to "stick close, stay in my aura, I can't heal around corners!"
(2) The rogues who want to waste everyone's time by demanding everyone sit tight while they scout ahead, while they scout for traps.
(3) The uber-TR guy who "forbids" this and that.
(4) Ranters who publicly announce they are quitting the game, or canceling their VIP, etc. (Just leave already.)

There's some context in which some or any of this is reasonable and warranted. But usually it's just BS.

The best XP-zergers I know, Flamicia and Ying, are certainly demanding, but don't lecture or berate anyone. They don't rely on PuGs for 1st time elite runs. They plan ahead and lead the TR train at a rapid, sustained pace. And fun. It's always fun.

Some people need constant affirmation that they are awesome. If you know you are awesome, you don't need this affirmation. Some people need to constantly prove how useful they are, and over-zerg and over-estimate their abilities, often becoming a liability to the group.

A lot of control freaks have been griping about the need for "team" play. A Barb who demands of the FVS, "HJEAL ME while I DPS!" is not team play. Being a sponge, a resource sponge, an attention sponge is not being a team player. Team players are ones who minimize their dependence on others while maximizing their contribution to the group. Particularly in a TR-train, no one should be healing others (BB! Cometfall, Implosions!!!) and no one should be a mana sponge who needs babysitting.

The high-skill uber-zerger who berates "noobs," or the low-skill healer/rog who demands everyone slow down to their pace, both suffer from the same psychosis, egoism. Whether you are right or wrong with your "demands," you quickly become insufferable to others.

Mitu is the best TR'r on the server, sorry if you dont agree but he definatly is no matter how many people hate him (i hate him too)

[Kokanee]

The game will never reward experienced players to slow down to instruct inexperienced ones. This just won't happen.

The reality is we just play against a machine and try to learn a set of rules to beat the machine quicker and more efficiently. High level experienced guilds usually crush new content on the same day even on hardest difficulties. For these advanced group of player there is not much else to have fun with once this is done.

SO, what is this thing that differentiate these guys from the rest? What do they have to brag so much about? Knowledge! "been there before, done that"..

I'm pretty sure it feels good to have the new cool toys first and run to post on forums bragging for first completions and hardest accomplishments.

Without the Noobs! The game would be boring!

Yes, the uber players need noobs' attention, they need you there to spread the word how good they are. They need this reaffirmation that Pays for all the years dedicated time they put on countless true reincarnations.. All sleepless nights would have been in vain without you.

Imagine if all players/characters were at the same uber level of fast gaming and having all game items on all toons? nothing to separate the classes? Nothing to feel good about, not rewarding? Oh wait there's always the "Oh i was the first one on the server to do this" or "I'm a founder". No matter how good you noob becomes or how good epic items you have, you will always be a lesser player to the uberplayers.

If you are just starting the game now and can't live with this reality then sorry but this is probably not the game for you.

I'm really tired of always seeing the same thing on the game and here on the forums. Maybe I should not come here to read this **** in first place or maybe its just time for me to go take another long break.

[kauetomaz]

Catacombs
Tangleroot
Delera's
Threnal
2nd 1/2 of Lordsmarch (whatever it's called)
Both Madness chains
Sands
Gianthold
Reavers
House C
1/3 of my household has shroud...waiting for all to have before we learn it.

Not to mention...
32-point builds
+2 supreme tomes
multiple races
etc...

Again, just cause I'm casual...doesn't mean I'm an automatic f2p noob...more like a very informed newb

Quite a bit more than just those 2 I believe I'm a far cry from f2p

The problem isn't the number of packs (obviously) but in the nature of these packs. All of these provided me with quite a lot of leveling loot my 1st run to 20 and nice items that are easily farmed. I'm beginning to see, however, that these are NOT the prefered LEVELING packs that most people run. I have my list, I've checked it twice, and will buy more packs in the future...hopefully soon.

ShadowFlash

Edit: I can't stress enough, my intent wasn't to cause drama...frankly, I hate drama....just a perspective on what the average premium player has to adjust to. The packs I bought were the recommended ones at the time. I held back on shroud just because I was nervous on raiding while still learning the game. I would suggest with the new xp bonuses in place, a new thread with recommended packs to buy is created to help avoid situations such as mine.

When I started buying packs, Necro 1-3 were on the worst thing to buy list, but now they are apparently regularly run during a TR proccess. Madness chains were hot **** when they first came out...now, no one runs them. House P was frowned upon as a premium players buy, now with levleing so easy, it's a no-brainer as an entry level epic. Lots of things have changed in the game.

dude. as soon as im done with my current life and my tr timer resets im gonna be holding a "learning to fast tr" exercise with a bunch of ppl that ive been speaking to from either channels, pugs or even my guild =]
not claiming that i know a lot, but what i do know and ppl have asked me about im happy to share. if u interested send "FTSforever" a mail in game and ill let u know more about it. and just so we r clear in here. this learning tr is not gonna be a 3/4days tr. im gonna be taking my time on this one to properly introduce the quest list i run and how to execute them in a timely manner.
once again there r far superior players at this than me. but since ive got a bunch of ppl asking me for it and i have time anyways then y not. if ppl learn a thing or two from what i have to tell them, then later on they can learn more from the ppl that taught me.
oh yeah great shout outs to NIX for not only teaching me a bunch but also for introducing me to a bunch of ppl that helped further his teachings =]

[mobrien316]

My cleric routine reminds people that he can't heal you if you're in the next room or around a corner. The reminder always comes after the quest's first frantic "Can I get a HEAL!" scream goes over voice from a character who is several rooms ahead of the group and wondering why the cleric isn't bothering to heal him.


I don't expect anyone to stay with me. I stay with the main group, which is most often where the leader is. If someone wants to run ahead and they start screaming for heals, that's when the get the reminder that I can't heal through walls and if they want heals they should stay with the group.

[Quetzacoala]

The game will never reward experienced players to slow down to instruct inexperienced ones. This just won't happen.

The reality is we just play against a machine and try to learn a set of rules to beat the machine quicker and more efficiently. High level experienced guilds usually crush new content on the same day even on hardest difficulties. For these advanced group of player there is not much else to have fun with once this is done.

SO, what is this thing that differentiate these guys from the rest? What do they have to brag so much about? Knowledge! "been there before, done that"..

I'm pretty sure it feels good to have the new cool toys first and run to post on forums bragging for first completions and hardest accomplishments.

Without the Noobs! The game would be boring!

Yes, the uber players need noobs' attention, they need you there to spread the word how good they are. They need this reaffirmation that Pays for all the years dedicated time they put on countless true reincarnations.. All sleepless nights would have been in vain without you.

Imagine if all players/characters were at the same uber level of fast gaming and having all game items on all toons? nothing to separate the classes? Nothing to feel good about, not rewarding? Oh wait there's always the "Oh i was the first one on the server to do this" or "I'm a founder". No matter how good you noob becomes or how good epic items you have, you will always be a lesser player to the uberplayers.

If you are just starting the game now and can't live with this reality then sorry but this is probably not the game for you.

I'm really tired of always seeing the same thing on the game and here on the forums. Maybe I should not come here to read this **** in first place or maybe its just time for me to go take another long break.

As I explained earlier, the reward for an experienced player helping a newer player is that that player will become an asset in their groups one day.

[Mubjon]

My cleric routine reminds people that he can't heal you if you're in the next room or around a corner. The reminder always comes after the quest's first frantic "Can I get a HEAL!" scream goes over voice from a character who is several rooms ahead of the group and wondering why the cleric isn't bothering to heal him.


I don't expect anyone to stay with me. I stay with the main group, which is most often where the leader is. If someone wants to run ahead and they start screaming for heals, that's when the get the reminder that I can't heal through walls and if they want heals they should stay with the group.

That is what I do, I wait til they say something or I try to heal them and they are not line of sight or too far away. I will tell them to not run from me, do not run around corners and I will heal them when they are getting low.

Most do keep that in mind after the warning, especially if they die the first time around. Second death because they ran off leads to not bothering with a raise. There is only so much that can be done if people do not take the time to take care of themselves.

[Sonilas]

Simply not true. Hiromo is good at TR'ing, but I know others just as good and competent who are alot more fun to be around. Good TR'r + Good personality = better TR'r than Hiromo.

And if you like the personality of Hiromo? he becomes the best? this is different for each person ... because you will not always like the personality of everyone in the world.
but has a true ... if he is your friend he is faster. if you hate him he is slow? makes sense when senjo talk that i am slow in my TR :<... he hate me :<... or he was talking true? cruel doubt ....

[ChadB123]

And if you like the personality of Hiromo?

Can you repeat the question?

[Hydrosteel51]

This is just a random rant

But that means you get 0 xp/min for this, and worse yet, I get no more than that for replying!

Some people need constant affirmation that they are awesome. If you know you are awesome, you don't need this affirmation.

I couldn't agree more, and, to be perfectly honest, the only reason for this reply is to quote this for truth. I cannot add nearly enough emphasis to this point, but hey, it was worth a shot.

The high-skill uber-zerger who berates "noobs," or the low-skill healer/rog who demands everyone slow down to their pace, both suffer from the same psychosis, egoism.

I would, however, strongly reconsider the use of the word "psychosis" there...