Sorry, but I just have to rant for a sec (lol)

[Mephisto-Helix]

Since you asked the question...

If the guy managed to TR and get his PM to L18 without your orders and instructions, then he probably has some degree of free will. At some point he obviously decided he could handle being in undead form. He made a mistake and died. No big deal. Party didn't wipe.

Since this is a game and not the military, players can decide for themselves whether they want to follow instructions by other party members. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

I think freaking out over this minor incident and refusing to let anyone in the party rez him is an overreaction and it unnerves me.

Should charge royalties for saying what I was gonna say But well said and it's nail on the head. Too many people take this game too seriously/suck the fun out of it and I'd even say that some of them need professional help. Especially those uber venting on a forum after the incident.

PS - those in the group that were 'forbidden' (still can't believe that was used, lol) to raise him are super lame for being cowered by a fuhrer and doing as they were told (like naughty kids). Grow a set and play as yourself

[heythatsmyfish]

The PM should have just piked......sounded like that player had something to prove....I can understand your annoyance at such an occasion.

I wish more people were less gung ho LOL especially wizards........I play my PM like an overlord......I make big plays at important times but I am hardly ever in front of the party or lead the kill count.

I guess I am old fashioned but I believe the meatsacks should ALWAYS have the aggro LOL.

piking would of been better than griefing the party. I get that some peopel don't like other people and they want to get revenge for whatever missplaced hurt feelings they have but when you grief party lead guess what? you grief everyone in party as well.

I don't know who this wiz guy is but im sure he is soon to be black listed by plenty of people.

[mobrien316]

I have been in the same situation in Running with the Devils before, but I handle it very differently.


I will suggest to the Pale Masters that they avoid undead form because of the light damage issue. If they still want to go into undead mode they certainly can. I have run that quest on my pale master in undead form and in human form.

If a party member thinks it is a good idea to go into undead form they should do so. If they are getting one-shotted by everything in there with purple damage, I might suggest again that they don't use undead form. But it is still up to them. If I think they are a total tool I just won't group with them again.


In my experience, going into undead form is still perfectly acceptable if you manage aggro well. If you are in a party and you don't grab the aggro in every fight, your death aura should be more than enough to make up for the odd light damage hit, even if it is purple damage.


When I join a party I will certainly listen to the leader if his suggestions make sense, but I don't feel that joining somone's party necessitates blind, instant obedience to anything the leader says. If he "ordered" me not to use undead form I would not feel any obligation to "obey" him. Same goes if he orders my rogue to avoid sneaking or orders my cleric to avoid using his healing aura.

[Aurora1979]

Despite not being an xp grinder, I have quested with the OP on several lives long before such bonuses were added. He and Titan had set xp quests they would farm out with lesser "filler" quests between them when they needed more xp. For those filler quests, they would generally move on once they dropped below 1k xp per min (the true grind quests never got this low). I have always got along with the OP, despite my noobishness, though I freely admit that his personality can be somewhat abrasive.

-Trelise

Im not calling him out, im not having a go. I was genuinly asking, how much xp would one expect in those circumstances we were discussing.

Any answer for that?

I just want to reiterate- I have nothing against running for xp/min BUT I maintain, given the xp he/we used to get, compared to the amount we get now is it really worth getting so wound up about.

He ORDERED someone to do something, rather perdictably the person did not want to follow the order, in a game, for whatever reason and died.

I can think of many ways the OP could of delt with it better. Im just trying to get a grasp on his/ her level of expectations for xp when they run quests.

[Gawna]

I think you are missing the point. It was stated hey you are a pale master these guys do a ton of damage to undead you might want topace yourself for this run. not every quest they do together. For this 1 run he wanted him to go get hpo pots or scroll heal himself that is all not a lot to ask for.

Simple fact is that if the wizard wasn't willing to do as asked he should of just gracefully dropped party.

I understand the point and I get that it's annoying. But his entire post was an e-peen peacock strut of how awesome he is and the guy should be glad he even got into his group to begin with. If you offer someone some helpful advice and they ignore it to the detriment of the group, I think anyone would be a little ticked. But to come post a wall of text about how awesome you are and everyone should listen because you have the star and a waiting list of people to TR with you is laughable.

[Cyndrome]

I understand the point and I get that it's annoying. But his entire post was an e-peen peacock strut of how awesome he is and the guy should be glad he even got into his group to begin with. If you offer someone some helpful advice and they ignore it to the detriment of the group, I think anyone would be a little ticked. But to come post a wall of text about how awesome you are and everyone should listen because you have the star and a waiting list of people to TR with you is laughable.

Wait. I thought you had a waiting list of people to group with you?

[zeonardo]

I feel your pain.
Been there too.
I think I've never grouped with you. I run only on Thelanis, but I'd be glad to.

Nothing to say here really. Just +1 up to offset those who will never understand what you mean.

[MartinusWyllt]

Wait. I thought you had a waiting list of people to group with you?

They're not wanting to TR, though.

[Llewndyn]

One part of me definately understands your mind set, and wont disagree with you
The other part of me (the mindset that I always put up when I go into fast leveling mode) is the one one where you dont get stuff if you dont do stuff. If I do one optional solo, while the rest of the grp goes on in the quest, and my optional gives me a chest, it is my chest, and the rest of the grp best doesnt run for it as that would be losing time, sicne they run normally out of their way to get to that chest, and arent doing any quest objectives at that moment. I also will never run to a chest of an optional of which I didnt help with, hell I skip 95% of all the chests while leveling, even if I am standing right next to it, I skip it sometimes.
Now, the moment that guy died, due to not listening to my instructions, he didnt contribute to the quest at all as he costed all of us 10% xp. He did that all to himself as he choose to go against the party leader. So theirfor he didnt get a raise. He chooses to play his own style, fine by me, but he wont get his loot in a quest of which we run the quest the way how it is suppose to be done.
Hope that kind of explains onto why the no raise mentality

Seriously? You do know this is a game, right? I was all with you, it's your group, but with every response you get more and more petty. If you are in that much of a hurry to get through the game so fast, what kind of enjoyment do you get out of it? Even zerging has an end reason in mind, but the 40+ TRs and the "I am awesome you all bow in reverence to run with me" mentality going on here can't be fun for you, it just can't. I won't believe that. You skip 95% of the chests because you already have all of the loot. Maybe those other people do not. When you go on car trips with your family do you run in, go to the bathroom in 11 seconds, get back in the car and leave because you were done?

I do appreciate this whole thread though, lets me get a good list going of whom not to run with depending on what server I am on (absolutely no ill will though, play how you want and all)

[KingOfCheese]

If I set rules like that I would expect the following:

1) some people would disregard them "unintentionally" because people are fallible (for all sorts of reasons--age, mental capacity, attention span, disability, etc.).

2) some people would disregard them to spite me.

When that happened--as it inevitably would, I wouldn't go off on someone as you described you did. Why not?

1) maybe they were a rather sympathetic sub-type of category 1 above--which might not deserve it (under anyone's standard); and more importantly

2) you could get reported and eventually banned.

Nothing slows down TR-leveling efficiency more than an inability to play the game due to an involuntary vacation.

Laughing it off seems like the better approach. You can still part ways with the person after the run--but you won't risk a ban hammer and you won't risk ruining someone else's gaming experience (whether deserved or not).

[Maitland]

Wow..buddy..go outside for a bit,eat a cookie..you got the undies strapped on real tight eh?
I am on Argo,so wont have the pleasure of meeting you..holy Finnagan's.

[Gawna]

They're not wanting to TR, though.

Raid train!

[Enoach]

You do have all the signs of being a difficult type to run with; Arrogance that your accomplishments and presence should astound everyone, Self proclaimed difficult person (of course only one person can change that approach in your life) and a bit anal on how you want a Team Operation to work.

Now with that being said:

I totally agree with you that Undead form is near suicide in Running with the Devils - Personally I would even be hard pressed to run in Undead form (I've been a PM person since it hit the street) even if I had 1000 HP. However, I might step in on my own in Vampire Form so I could get one of those neat Combat log things for my BIO

[Combat] You were Hit for a gazillion points of light damage - Not even the Ashes survived

Now, this quest is very dangerous for Undead up to where all the Eladrin are finally killed. The Final Fight is basically the All Clear. Also the Optional Chest - A very easy solo area for a necro based wizard.

So now based on the above - did part of your explanation include that the Final Fight would not have light damage seen in the rest of the quest? Did you think that maybe if you planned to send the PM down the optional hall to clear that while you finished off the Eladrin on the bridge and than the Red Named that as a Leader it would have shown greater knowledge of not only the quest but of the abilities/drawbacks of your party members?

A good Leader doesn't just know the fastest way to complete a quest, they also know how to effectively use their team and its abilities.

I would also like to say congratulations on your XP/Minute. That is impressive.

[badbob117]

Wow..buddy..go outside for a bit,eat a cookie..you got the undies strapped on real tight eh?
I am on Argo,so wont have the pleasure of meeting you..holy Finnagan's.

My feelings exactly. If i ever become like OP , Can someone please slap me upside my head and tell me it is just a friggen game. For goodness sake.

[MrWizard]

you over reacted.

I bet everyone was a bit put off by the anger/hatred or whatever you had going on.

i amsure you are a fine person, but I would not like running an epic quest with you since I do things 'my way'....

some people are pure protocol others are less protocol...

you are one, he was the other, bound to be an issue, especially when things go wrong.

Even if he did not die and did great I imagine you would have went off on him anyway for not doing things by your protocol, procedure, experience, rules, whatever.

either way, doesn't sound like anyone was having fun in that run.

you overreacted.

personally I would have kept raising him to watch him die a lot..

however, once you get past the shrine there are only a few light dudes...
so he would not have died that many times ( )

[JustMe_ca]

In my experience, going into undead form is still perfectly acceptable if you manage aggro well. If you are in a party and you don't grab the aggro in every fight, your death aura should be more than enough to make up for the odd light damage hit, even if it is purple damage.

I think this is the key point - if you can manage agro it is fine, but if you run away from the party dragging a orb behind you - and then die, it really isn't well managed agro.

[~Quilny]

I remember massiv being a total noob (sorry dude, but you know its true) but he joined Titan and me back in the old days quite a few times, and has always followed instructions and advice, look where he is now, they guy has a completionist aswell under his belt. Believe it or not, but I remember his as having severe issues just staying alive against 1 enemy. Sometimes you can jsut get lucky and find that 1 great pug who follows advice and wants to learn something. And if that player learns, it only benefits everybody at end game.

I've learned most of what I know from 3 people

Name Guild past lives
Titanticus- over raided - completionist
Barbacoa- house do'urden - completionist
Brisza - house do'urden - multi TR

Titanticus has helped me build good solo build toons
brisza taught me the value of the zerg
babracoa has taught me patience and understanding


I give you the 3 wise men of Orien

I'm not saying I haven't learned anything from mitu but i remember when i was a 1st lifer and you wanted to kick me from group not teach me how to be better. I have no clue why titanticus and the others didn't want to kick me because I was a horrible player still am to tell the truth.

I did try my best to not die and to keep up and I took all the advice i was given no matter how it was given. ( example shouts and yells ) lol.

without those 3 people I probably would of never tried for completionist they took the time to get me to where I am today.

[eclipse668]

amazing. it took the team-play-sherif department over 12 hours to respond. I guess they were busy filing 'caught zerging in a team play zone' tickets on their home servers...

remember to zerg responsibly (you don't want to get caught speeding at rushhour)...

[gravestones]

Show me, don't tell me.

Words to live by.

[baii]

Mr.experienced, why you put up lfm or let this "pug" wiz in your party at the first place if it is not gonna speed thing up?