Sorry, but I just have to rant for a sec (lol)

[tygara]

People who do know me, know very well that I am a rather experienced person when it comes down to leveling.
I know I am not an easy person, but when you follow my instructions, the quests will usually go very fast and painless.

So this is what happened today, I ended up getting a pug wizard into the group, and we ran already some quests together. He seemed to understand what to do, seemed like a rather acceptable player, and he was a second life, so he already had some experience I would think. We level at our usual speed, so fast and very efficient (averaging at that moment about 4-5k xp/min) and obviously nothing of problems seem to occure at that moment.
Now, the moment we finish the farm, we decided to move on to Running with the Devils, which obviously due to bravery streak would be run on elite and farmed on hard at level 18.

I already noticed that that wizard was a pale master, so before stepping into the quest, while grabbing ship buffs, I addressed him with the following concern. There is a load of light dmg going on in Devils and obviously undead form aint a smart move in Devils. So basically I forbid him to go in undead form with only 270HP or so, and I told him to make sure he had potions with him to heal himself. He agreed and understood the reason why that was. No problem I think, and we start with the quest.

I run the quest like I usually always do when I am on a caster, which is pretty much take the agro of everything on myself and just selfheal, so that the rest of the grp doesnt really have to eat too much dmg themself.
Everything goes smooth untill we come at the first shrine. I am out of SP, ending up resting. Mister Wizard was not even 25% down his SP bar and ended up moving on with some of the melee. The moment I am shrining, I see him passing by in undead form. It was a glimps I only saw so I wasnt sure about it. I end up asking to the wizard himself if he is, and also to the rest of the grp. He plain ignores my question, 2 other people (the melee who are with him) comfirm he is. Not even 5seconds later, obviously not being able to handle the agro not the high purple dmg output from the mobs, he ends up dying.

You can kind of guess what my reaction was at that moment. I am very sorry for those who dont know me, but those who do kind of understand why I am not posting my reaction in the forums. I obviously forbid my party to raise him or run him to a shrine, and ended up kicking him out of the group immidiately once he was out of the quest.

I jsut dont understand it at all, and this is kind of why I am making this thread, maybe anyone here can help me understand. So we run a previous quest, where we get so much xp/min, into which I lead it myself aswell, with very clear instructions. That kind of indicates that I know what I am talking about. I say before stepping into the quest why he isnt allowed to do something, yet still he goes against my very clear instructions onto which he agreed on to begin with, to still do what he feels like. I jsut dont get it. Is 40+TRs and a completionist toon not enough to kind of know how to level up and what can and cannot be done in certain quests. Does a first TR know that much more then me? And does that first life feel he can net more then 4-5k xp/min by taking the risc of getting kicked out of the group. I am pretty sure that there a lot of players who get declined for my leveling party are right now crying coz idiots like that get a chance and they dont.

/rant

[Aurora1979]

I saw this in the other thread. I do agree with the premise of your post.

You did ask him to do something (or not do it actually) He did it and died. That is annoying.

However, maybe he did it because he wasn't getting kills and wanted to contribute more, or ran out of healing pots etc... I'm not excusing but there could of been a reason behind the logic.

Most important thing though,

I noticed you said you get/ aim for 4-5 k xp per min. Not very long ago TR's were aiming for nearer 1-2k per min.

With the vast increase in xp, and thus a huge drop in time taken to tr, up to 5 times quicker, you now have the luxury to have the odd run like you had there. It doesn't really matter does it?

[bruener]

Roflmao. You told him what he was "allowed" to do. You "forbid" the party to rez him......yes dad. 10%base xp hit is nothing anymore. Did u put in ur lfm that u r telling everyone how to play their toons? Might keep free minded ppl from joining next time. You said he played well earlier, so after(hopefully) learning his mistake u kick him b4 the next run.

Sorry no sympathy for u.

[tygara]

Roflmao. You told him what he was "allowed" to do. You "forbid" the party to rez him......yes dad. 10%base xp hit is nothing anymore. Did u put in ur lfm that u r telling everyone how to play their toons? Might keep free minded ppl from joining next time. You said he played well earlier, so after(hopefully) learning his mistake u kick him b4 the next run.

Sorry no sympathy for u.

Bruener, if you would have read my post, you would have seen that I clearly stated not to be an easy guy to run with. You might have never run with me beofre, and probably dont even wanne run with me, no problem, your choise. But fact is, if you come in my group, you follow my lead. I have the star, you do what I say, or you go and drop grp (or get kicked) It is the way how I run. People who already did TRs with me know very well what I am capable of, and howmuch knowledge I have of the leveling content of the game. You dont do 40+ TRs without becoming some what of a person who searches for the same minded people. And again, if you dont wanne run with me, your choise, but I do know that people are standing in lines to do a full TR with me, as they know how fast I rack them on each other. Just finished today a TR of 4.378.500xp, which basically took us exactely 3days 22houres. Also only used 4 x 6h xp pot and still had 2h28min left on the last pot, so that is basically a TR in just over 20h of in-quest time. Can you do it more efficient? Go do it.
Again, not everybody likes to run with me, or is up for it, no issue at all. But if you chooose to do so, you follow my lead.


And Aurora, people might have been going earlier for 1k xp/min, I always aimed for way higher, even before the bravery streak, tomes, and 25% xp bonus that this moment.

[Veriden]

While I've never had any type of trouble running with Mitwo I hadn't had the pleasure of doing so on xp runs before. To me the request to the wizard was a fairly simple one that gave him permission to hang back and support the party with buffs and crowd control. Those both are as much contribution to a party as killing things. While I personally don't care if people die in the quests when I do my leveling (hell I do stupid things and get myself killed from time to time if not only to say: "Hey, I tried to take on every monster in the dungeon at the same time" Or a ddo version of crocidile hunter which typically cracks Vylia up. "Cricky, here we have a real live beholder, one of the dangerous creatures in ebberon...its known for it's poor dental hygene..I'm gonna floss his teeth for 'im." some such silly project.(RIP Steve, no offense or mockery intended but good humor in a good man's memory.)

While over all, the manner of approach may have been a little harsh, if Mitwo was the pl meh, its his party and he can cry if he wants to.

[morticianjohn]

Bruener, if you would have read my post, you would have seen that I clearly stated not to be an easy guy to run with. You might have never run with me beofre, and probably dont even wanne run with me, no problem, your choise. But fact is, if you come in my group, you follow my lead. I have the star, you do what I say, or you go and drop grp (or get kicked) It is the way how I run. People who already did TRs with me know very well what I am capable of, and howmuch knowledge I have of the leveling content of the game. You dont do 40+ TRs without becoming some what of a person who searches for the same minded people. And again, if you dont wanne run with me, your choise, but I do know that people are standing in lines to do a full TR with me, as they know how fast I rack them on each other. Just finished today a TR of 4.378.500xp, which basically took us exactely 3days 22houres. Also only used 4 x 6h xp pot and still had 2h28min left on the last pot, so that is basically a TR in just over 20h of in-quest time. Can you do it more efficient? Go do it.
Again, not everybody likes to run with me, or is up for it, no issue at all. But if you chooose to do so, you follow my lead.


And Aurora, people might have been going earlier for 1k xp/min, I always aimed for way higher, even before the bravery streak, tomes, and 25% xp bonus that this moment.

so if you're getting 4k xp/min why does it matter that someone died once in a quest? It's 10% xp loss on one run. You said he was competent in other questing that you did with him. Now you've alienated him and any close friends that he runs with.

I'm just curious as to why this upsets you so much that you "need to rant". I'm sure this isn't the first time you've had a party member die. LOL, you've probably died before due to some noob mistake in the very same quest. Maybe if you didn't run out of mana you could have avoided the whole situation but you're not that uber.

[Bacab]

It was the OP's LFM. He can place restrictions.

I am sure he does not care if others like him or not. He is about efficiency.

The undead-dead wizard cost him efficiency.

These people probably should not quest together in the future due to different play styles.

[~Quilny]

People who do know me, know very well that I am a rather experienced person when it comes down to leveling.
I know I am not an easy person, but when you follow my instructions, the quests will usually go very fast and painless.

So this is what happened today, I ended up getting a pug wizard into the group, and we ran already some quests together. He seemed to understand what to do, seemed like a rather acceptable player, and he was a second life, so he already had some experience I would think. We level at our usual speed, so fast and very efficient (averaging at that moment about 4-5k xp/min) and obviously nothing of problems seem to occure at that moment.
Now, the moment we finish the farm, we decided to move on to Running with the Devils, which obviously due to bravery streak would be run on elite and farmed on hard at level 18.

I already noticed that that wizard was a pale master, so before stepping into the quest, while grabbing ship buffs, I addressed him with the following concern. There is a load of light dmg going on in Devils and obviously undead form aint a smart move in Devils. So basically I forbid him to go in undead form with only 270HP or so, and I told him to make sure he had potions with him to heal himself. He agreed and understood the reason why that was. No problem I think, and we start with the quest.

I run the quest like I usually always do when I am on a caster, which is pretty much take the agro of everything on myself and just selfheal, so that the rest of the grp doesnt really have to eat too much dmg themself.
Everything goes smooth untill we come at the first shrine. I am out of SP, ending up resting. Mister Wizard was not even 25% down his SP bar and ended up moving on with some of the melee. The moment I am shrining, I see him passing by in undead form. It was a glimps I only saw so I wasnt sure about it. I end up asking to the wizard himself if he is, and also to the rest of the grp. He plain ignores my question, 2 other people (the melee who are with him) comfirm he is. Not even 5seconds later, obviously not being able to handle the agro not the high purple dmg output from the mobs, he ends up dying.

You can kind of guess what my reaction was at that moment. I am very sorry for those who dont know me, but those who do kind of understand why I am not posting my reaction in the forums. I obviously forbid my party to raise him or run him to a shrine, and ended up kicking him out of the group immidiately once he was out of the quest.

I jsut dont understand it at all, and this is kind of why I am making this thread, maybe anyone here can help me understand. So we run a previous quest, where we get so much xp/min, into which I lead it myself aswell, with very clear instructions. That kind of indicates that I know what I am talking about. I say before stepping into the quest why he isnt allowed to do something, yet still he goes against my very clear instructions onto which he agreed on to begin with, to still do what he feels like. I jsut dont get it. Is 40+TRs and a completionist toon not enough to kind of know how to level up and what can and cannot be done in certain quests. Does a first TR know that much more then me? And does that first life feel he can net more then 4-5k xp/min by taking the risc of getting kicked out of the group. I am pretty sure that there a lot of players who get declined for my leveling party are right now crying coz idiots like that get a chance and they dont.

/rant

7:30 / 9:00
I feel your pain. Its not about if you are right or wrong its you have party lead I don't understand why people join groups and do their own thing lead means lead. There needs to be a vote option to kick people from group when they don't listen.

[bruener]

Obviously I read ur post. Yes u had the star. U have 40+ trs. There r lines of ppl just waiting to run with u.I have no problem following the leader. Go the direction u want, skip opts and whatnot. That being said, if I'm on my healer and someone needs a rez idc who has the lead, they will get it. Good luck in the game. You won't see me in any line.

[kauetomaz]

im gonna refrain from sayin to much in here as it is gonna causes drams and i really dont have the patience for this kinda things lately.
but heres my two cents, take it for whats its worth(not much at all):
ive grouped with u a few times. none of which did u seem like a harsh person to be around, at least no more than i am. altough for the past 3 lives ive ran mostly solo or with ppl piking at the begginin of the quest just to keep me entertained and not die of boredom. yes those lives took longer than im used to and defs wayyy to long for some1 like u (average of 35hour on pot times) but at the end of the day i managed to show some ppl around how to do things in the lil i know of how to do it and didnt die of boredom by soloing things too much (even tho i was still soloin somewhat lol)
in the few events where i didn't have a piker friend i also posted it up and got some ppl joinin. mostly ppl understood directions and what to do and when to pike or do stuff if they could handle their own eficiently. however ppl in orien lately are just not interested in learning or following lead. so sadly whenever i do post for something its on the channels im at. *hint hint hint* do the same man, get ppl from channels u at. pretty sure i would end joinin this way or not ;p
and gratz from FTS on the very fast life during this bonus week. well done u beat me to it as usual =]

[mikesharpshooter]

i love people thinkig all you need in life is ddo

[MartinusWyllt]

I have the star, you do what I say, or you go and drop grp (or get kicked) It is the way how I run.

I understand where you're coming from and don't disagree, I choose to run a little looser personally and that's all well and good. Where I would disagree and where I would have had prevaricated would be leaving the soul stone in the quest. You were already committed to leaving the vale in order to reform and, thereby, kick them so you were going to run back out to the quest, anyway. Dropping his stone at a shrine would have had cost you nothing more and you could still kick them/reform. Getting them back to Meridia would have had even saved you the seconds it took to reform.

They could, of course, cake themselves and get the end chest, I suppose, abandoning them like that seems overly harsh in my opinion....as others have pointed out we practically have xp running out our ears these days.

[tygara]

I understand where you're coming from and don't disagree, I choose to run a little looser personally and that's all well and good. Where I would disagree and where I would have had prevaricated would be leaving the soul stone in the quest. You were already committed to leaving the vale in order to reform and, thereby, kick them so you were going to run back out to the quest, anyway. Dropping his stone at a shrine would have had cost you nothing more and you could still kick them/reform. Getting them back to Meridia would have had even saved you the seconds it took to reform.

They could, of course, cake themselves and get the end chest, I suppose, abandoning them like that seems overly harsh in my opinion....as others have pointed out we practically have xp running out our ears these days.

One part of me definately understands your mind set, and wont disagree with you
The other part of me (the mindset that I always put up when I go into fast leveling mode) is the one one where you dont get stuff if you dont do stuff. If I do one optional solo, while the rest of the grp goes on in the quest, and my optional gives me a chest, it is my chest, and the rest of the grp best doesnt run for it as that would be losing time, sicne they run normally out of their way to get to that chest, and arent doing any quest objectives at that moment. I also will never run to a chest of an optional of which I didnt help with, hell I skip 95% of all the chests while leveling, even if I am standing right next to it, I skip it sometimes.
Now, the moment that guy died, due to not listening to my instructions, he didnt contribute to the quest at all as he costed all of us 10% xp. He did that all to himself as he choose to go against the party leader. So theirfor he didnt get a raise. He chooses to play his own style, fine by me, but he wont get his loot in a quest of which we run the quest the way how it is suppose to be done.
Hope that kind of explains onto why the no raise mentality

[eclipse668]

the moment you open up your xp runs to pugs you need to be prepared for ppl to 'cost' you xp and/or increased completion time.

I agree thou that the situation you described can leave you scratching your head.
you made your experiences while leveling, you can pass those on to inexperienced ppl but at some point you need an example to make it plausible. Said wizzard might still take a lesson back home and eventualy make yet another step in becoming a better player while leveling.

[kauetomaz]

the moment you open up your xp runs to pugs you need to be prepared for ppl to 'cost' you xp and/or increased completion time.

I agree thou that the situation you described can leave you scratching your head.
you made your experiences while leveling, you can pass those on to inexperienced ppl but at some point you need an example to make it plausible. Said wizzard might still take a lesson back home and eventualy make yet another step in becoming a better player while leveling.

this is actually the way i like to think about things when i open it up for pugs. but then again. certain ppl never learn which is why i dont open up as often as i probably should ;p

[tygara]

so if you're getting 4k xp/min why does it matter that someone died once in a quest? It's 10% xp loss on one run. You said he was competent in other questing that you did with him. Now you've alienated him and any close friends that he runs with.

I'm just curious as to why this upsets you so much that you "need to rant". I'm sure this isn't the first time you've had a party member die. LOL, you've probably died before due to some noob mistake in the very same quest. Maybe if you didn't run out of mana you could have avoided the whole situation but you're not that uber.

Also, here is another perfect example of somebody who has never run with me before, and with that kind of mindset, probably will never get in group with me for leveling eather.
First off, I dont care too much about deaths, I literly said even before we started the quest, to the people who did that full life with me, that we would probably eat a 10% penalty on elite devils. To speed zerg it in 6-7min on elite, like we normally do (and did today aswell) you take a rather high risc sometimes of agroing a lot of mobs and then eating a bit too much searing lights to the face, so deaths can happen there on elite, and I didnt care about it. Secondairy, its not coz I run a 4-5k or more xp per minute, that I will have people in my group who ignore instructions, and that is the whole point of this thread. If people dont listen to me anymore, the quest is not going to be run in the way how I want it to be done, and we wont pull that amount of xp/min. Third, I didnt alienate him at all from his friends, since he was in MY party, and the other 4 people were my friends, none of them knew that pug wizard at all. He was the lucky one to get in group with us.

I might indead die sometimes aswell, hell, who doesnt. But fact is, and now I got a load of people who can vouch this for me, on a TR of 4.3mil xp, I die usuallt less then 5times in the entire life, this life I died twice. Can you bring forward that kind of game play while playing at such a zerg speed that you average that high xp/min? Also, I unfortunately dont have a screen shot of that elite run, but I ended up with about 80% of all the kills in that entire quest on elite, and repeated that every run we did on hard and normal, so to blame me for a death just coz I shrine is just totally a proof that you absolutely have no clue what kind of game play my TR grps run at, nor what kind of game style I got.

If you look in my quote, you will see the name of my toons, please do me a favor and add them to your ignore list, as I dont feel like taking players like you in my grps anyway, and i honestely dont think you would want to join with me eather.

PS, neg rep me all you want, I dont really care lol, I play the game, I dont play the forums all that often

this is actually the way i like to think about things when i open it up for pugs. but then again. certain ppl never learn which is why i dont open up as often as i probably should ;p

That is actually exactely my thoughtprocess aswell. I like opening to pugs when I know the group we have is a good foundation of pulling pretty much anyone through. I think it is a good way to give that one lucky pug a bit of experience, if they choose to listen to the advice I hand them. I remember massiv being a total noob (sorry dude, but you know its true) but he joined Titan and me back in the old days quite a few times, and has always followed instructions and advice, look where he is now, they guy has a completionist aswell under his belt. Believe it or not, but I remember his as having severe issues just staying alive against 1 enemy. Sometimes you can jsut get lucky and find that 1 great pug who follows advice and wants to learn something. And if that player learns, it only benefits everybody at end game.

[Antheal]

Did you ask what his reasons were for switching to undead form after you advised him about the lots of light damage being cast in the quest?

It could have been something as simple as a brain freeze/force of habit that he went into form without thinking about it, as opposed to disobeying you for teh lulz.

[tygara]

Did you ask what his reasons were for switching to undead form after you advised him about the lots of light damage being cast in the quest?

It could have been something as simple as a brain freeze/force of habit that he went into form without thinking about it, as opposed to disobeying you for teh lulz.

I did ask, he never bothered to say anything at all anymore after he died.

[dynahawk]

I will admit the OP is on my "special" grouping list, but despite that, it would appear the wizard had plenty of notice to drop group if he did not want to comply with the Demands placed on him.

We can argue all day, but most will agree that quests run better with everyone on the same page.

[kauetomaz]

I will admit the OP is on my "special" grouping list, but despite that, it would appear the wizard had plenty of notice to drop group if he did not want to comply with the Demands placed on him.

We can argue all day, but most will agree that quests run better with everyone on the same page.

This!!! and end of discussion ;p