requesting again -.-

[jayboss1]

if you run out of spellpoints, do NOT melee as a wizard xD. that is something i only do when i am joking around.

A- you expect to hit epic mobs with no str and an awful BAB?
B- you expect to survive as a pm while meleeing epic stuff?

2 mnk could be ok if you really dont care about trapping and still want evasion. (toughness feats yeah)
But generally, i find it's easier just to go pure wiz for capstone and better dcs.

When it comes to epics, melee would be left to melee classes, i'm not daft

and i'll repeat myself, pure casters are no fun to play to me

[stille_nacht]

in this case, yeah 18 wiz/ 2 mnk is pretty much the way to go if you spurn those traps.
i'd advise a WF archmage if you want to do this, but PM human or drow also works fine

extra feats from monk get you toughness, take insightful reflexes and good to go yeah.

though, that will play like a pure caster with evasion. if you really want to mix it up, you could always try a WF 16/2/2 sorc/pala/rog (tukaw), or something similar. Requires a lot of gear though.

[wax_on_wax_off]

But staying pure doesn't achieve what i'm looking for

Pure casters bore the living daylights out of me, splashing will hopefully make being a caster more enjoyable for me
I'm even planning to TR it again and reuse the build to reduce the possible shortcomings
Its just a matter of finding a build that will make it work which is what the purpose of the thread was

Ok, 2 basic choices.

Choice 1: Intelligence based. Basically complete waste of time to even consider a melee option. PM SLAs are quite potent from level 12 chained one after another. The real trick with a PM though is to TR with some nice twink gear (VPIS in particular) and make sure you never run out of SP (keep stacks of little SP pots for when you do). Then just nuke/instant kill your way to cap. Any attempts to diversify the build just ruins the entire charm and strength of the PM build - its all about cutting edge, max level spells (circle/finger of death, wail of the banshee etc). Alternatively, go WF AM and splash a barb level in (for move speed).

Choice 2: Strength (or stat other than intelligence based). This is probably a waste of time and certainly going to make leveling harder than easier. That said, I'm planning a Palemaster III/Monk 2 strength based unarmed build life for my rogue (so has all the DPS gear) just to see if I can make the concept work. The build is in my sig.

TL, DR: If you want to splash then stay away from PM.

[FrozenNova]

>Casters are no fun
>Wizrogues are no fun
>Melee is no fun

I'm not seeing where you're going with this.
An 18/2 wizard monk isn't a wizard who can punch things. It's just a wizrogue with an extra feat, 23 hp, and no trap skills.

[jayboss1]

Ok, 2 basic choices.

Choice 1: Intelligence based. Basically complete waste of time to even consider a melee option. PM SLAs are quite potent from level 12 chained one after another. The real trick with a PM though is to TR with some nice twink gear (VPIS in particular) and make sure you never run out of SP (keep stacks of little SP pots for when you do). Then just nuke/instant kill your way to cap. Any attempts to diversify the build just ruins the entire charm and strength of the PM build - its all about cutting edge, max level spells (circle/finger of death, wail of the banshee etc). Alternatively, go WF AM and splash a barb level in (for move speed).

Choice 2: Strength (or stat other than intelligence based). This is probably a waste of time and certainly going to make leveling harder than easier. That said, I'm planning a Palemaster III/Monk 2 strength based unarmed build life for my rogue (so has all the DPS gear) just to see if I can make the concept work. The build is in my sig.

TL, DR: If you want to splash then stay away from PM.

Saw it, it looked interesting
Only problem is I started playing again a few weeks ago and deleted everything I had when I left.

[jayboss1]

Ok, 2 basic choices.

Choice 2: Strength (or stat other than intelligence based). This is probably a waste of time and certainly going to make leveling harder than easier. That said, I'm planning a Palemaster III/Monk 2 strength based unarmed build life for my rogue (so has all the DPS gear) just to see if I can make the concept work. The build is in my sig.

Ran the build through the char gen using a 34 point build, there is a feat spare

[wax_on_wax_off]

Ran the build through the char gen using a 34 point build, there is a feat spare

Updated (I'd probably put Past Life: Soldier of the Faith here).

[jayboss1]

I think ill try use that build with spell pen at the end

any recommended changes i should make considering my arti PL and +3 supreme ability tome?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I think ill try use that build with spell pen at the end

any recommended changes i should make considering my arti PL and +3 supreme ability tome?

34 point means -2 ability points, +3 dex tome means you only need 14 base dex so it's a wash.

Not sure what the expansion is going to do to the build.

[jayboss1]

34 point means -2 ability points, +3 dex tome means you only need 14 base dex so it's a wash.

Not sure what the expansion is going to do to the build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Female
(2 Monk \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 265
Spell Points: 1255 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 13
Will: 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 24                   24
Dexterity            14                 17                   18
Constitution         14                 17                   18
Intelligence         14                 17                   20
Wisdom               14                 17                   19
Charisma              8                 11                   11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     8
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         6                    28
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            1                    11.5
Jump                  3                     7
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         6                     8
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     6
Search                2                     6
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    27
Use Magic Device      1                    12.5

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Helm of Earth \par Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II \par Litany of the Dead \par Epic Cape of the Roc \par Sanura's Band \par Eerie Belt \par Epic Brawling Gloves \par Cannith Boots of Propulsion \par Epic Bracers of Demon's Consort \par Epic Robe of Shadow \par Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing \par Health +6 Ring \par  \par Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Magic Missile
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Shocking Grasp
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Trap Sense I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation II


Level 5 (Wizard)
Spell (2): Lesser Death Aura
Spell (2): Touch of Idiocy
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Chain Missiles
Spell (3): Ray of Exhaustion
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Negative Energy Burst
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Zombie


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 10 (Wizard)
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (4): Death Aura
Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Trap Sense II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge
Spell (5): Waves of Fatigue
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 13 (Wizard)
Spell (4): Burning Blood
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 14 (Wizard)
Spell (6): Necrotic Ray
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (7): Greater Teleport
Spell (4): Force Missiles
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Spell (8): Black Dragon Bolt
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II


Level 19 (Wizard)
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III

thats how it looks using 34 points
spell pen should be at 18, feats all in the wrong place after missing out level 3 feat selection and going back to change it
HP is 430 with the notable gear, not everything on the build is available on the planner so i had to stab in the dark with other things
spell choices up for revision

[wax_on_wax_off]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Female
(2 Monk \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 265
Spell Points: 1255 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 13
Will: 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 24                   24
Dexterity            14                 17                   18
Constitution         14                 17                   18
Intelligence         14                 17                   20
Wisdom               14                 17                   19
Charisma              8                 11                   11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     8
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         6                    28
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            1                    11.5
Jump                  3                     7
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         6                     8
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     6
Search                2                     6
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    27
Use Magic Device      1                    12.5

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Helm of Earth \par Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II \par Litany of the Dead \par Epic Cape of the Roc \par Sanura's Band \par Eerie Belt \par Epic Brawling Gloves \par Cannith Boots of Propulsion \par Epic Bracers of Demon's Consort \par Epic Robe of Shadow \par Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing \par Health +6 Ring \par  \par Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Magic Missile
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Shocking Grasp
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Trap Sense I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation II


Level 5 (Wizard)
Spell (2): Lesser Death Aura
Spell (2): Touch of Idiocy
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Chain Missiles
Spell (3): Ray of Exhaustion
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Negative Energy Burst
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Zombie


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 10 (Wizard)
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (4): Death Aura
Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Trap Sense II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge
Spell (5): Waves of Fatigue
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 13 (Wizard)
Spell (4): Burning Blood
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 14 (Wizard)
Spell (6): Necrotic Ray
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (7): Greater Teleport
Spell (4): Force Missiles
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Spell (8): Black Dragon Bolt
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II


Level 19 (Wizard)
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III

thats how it looks using 34 points
spell pen should be at 18, feats all in the wrong place after missing out level 3 feat selection and going back to change it
HP is 430 with the notable gear, not everything on the build is available on the planner so i had to stab in the dark with other things
spell choices up for revision

I think I'd reduce int to 10 and increase con to 16. +3 con tome and +1 adaptability put it to 20. Much of a muchness either way but HP is an issue for this build. Even additional toughness feats are worthwhile considering.

[jayboss1]

I think I'd reduce int to 10 and increase con to 16. +3 con tome and +1 adaptability put it to 20. Much of a muchness either way but HP is an issue for this build. Even additional toughness feats are worthwhile considering.

I planned to TR twice asap to gain the +2 spell pen from PL, that could leave room for another toughness feat

Not sure if i want to give up the int, seems like it would be pretty hurtful in the beginning levels considering i don't have the gear ready to make such a bold move

[wax_on_wax_off]

I planned to TR twice asap to gain the +2 spell pen from PL, that could leave room for another toughness feat

Not sure if i want to give up the int, seems like it would be pretty hurtful in the beginning levels considering i don't have the gear ready to make such a bold move

Yeah it's tough either way, 14 int will help leveling and easy/moderate difficult things but occasionally that extra bit of HP will matter a lot.

If you're going to TR again straight away then go the 14 int and just make sure you really stack the HP gear (conc-opp HP GS item, guild augment HP, false life, bears potions/+6 con item, draconic vitality, minos/tharaak etc).