Beta 4 Long Duration Spell Buff change

[QuantumFX]

Numerous low-level spell buffs with a duration of 1/minute per caster level have had their durations changed: they are still 1/minute per caster level, but they now have a minimum of 5 minutes. This includes the animal stat buffs (such as Cat's Grace), Jump, Bless, Expeditious Retreat, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Ram’s Might, Shield, and Tumble.

Devs,

I see what you’re trying to do here, and it is a great idea. This adds a lot of utility to these buffs.

However, I believe you guys are overthinking the solution. There are higher than minimum caster level wands out there on the random loot tables. And this change will unintentionally nerf them. (Examples: Shield, Expeditious Retreat, and Blur* come in CL 5 and 10 varieties. Stat Boost wands come in CL 6 varieties as well.) This is bad because these items have higher UMD check associated with them and no higher payoff for the trouble.

You guys should try a duration of 5 Minutes + 45 seconds per caster level instead.

Level 1 Duration: 5:45
Level 5 Duration: 8:00
Level 6 Duration: 8:45
Level 7 Duration: 9:30*
Level 10 Duration: 12:30
Level 20 Duration: 20:00

* Adding these in just in case Tolero missed a note here or there.

[Scraap]

Agreed

[DeafeningWhisper]

Devs,

I see what you’re trying to do here, and it is a great idea. This adds a lot of utility to these buffs.

However, I believe you guys are overthinking the solution. There are higher than minimum caster level wands out there on the random loot tables. And this change will unintentionally nerf them. (Examples: Shield, Expeditious Retreat, and Blur come in CL 5 and 10 varieties. Stat Boost wands come in CL 6 varieties as well.) This is bad because these items have higher UMD check associated with them and no higher payoff for the trouble.

You guys should try a duration of 5 Minutes + 45 seconds per caster level instead.

Level 1 Duration: 5:45
Level 5 Duration: 8:00
Level 6 Duration: 8:45
Level 7 Duration: 9:30 (This is if Energy Resist isn’t listed in the release notes.)
Level 10 Duration: 12:30
Level 20 Duration: 20:00

... Or they can throw multiclasses a bone for a change and keep it as is.

[Ryiah]

However, I believe you guys are overthinking the solution. There are higher than minimum caster level wands out there on the random loot tables. And this change will unintentionally nerf them.

Not really. I'll still be inclined to use them because, while being able to get 5 minutes from a Shield wand is nice, I prefer being able to cast and forget. A Wand of Shield (10th) means I can cast it once, throw on my Madstone Boots, and totally forget about it for a large portion of the quest (since a shrine is generally available at least once every 15 minutes).

For characters that don't have a high UMD, this means I'll still be able to get some use out of even the base wands. I prefer it as they're implementing it. It should have been done from the beginning.

[QuantumFX]

... Or they can throw multiclasses a bone for a change and keep it as is.

How are either of the changes (Beta 4’s or my suggestion) detrimental to multiclasses?

[Ryiah]

How are either of the changes (Beta 4’s or my suggestion) detrimental to multiclasses?

If the change isn't significant, why bother reducing the amount of time per caster level? There are a lot of things that need balancing, but this isn't one of them.

[DeafeningWhisper]

How are either of the changes (Beta 4’s or my suggestion) detrimental to multiclasses?

I think I somehow read your post in the exact reverse of what you meant... Gonna go eat now, rest and come back to the forums with a fresh mind.

Disregard previous paranoid statement.

[QuantumFX]

If the change isn't significant, why bother reducing the amount of time per caster level? There are a lot of things that need balancing, but this isn't one of them.

With my suggestion the spell duration is actually longer than 1 min per level until you hit CL 20 and even then it’s the exact same duration. And if it didn’t need some rebalancing then why did the devs make the change in the first place?

[Scraap]

Well, here's how I see the implications of the present implementation. By all means, point out an oversight:

(lam vs live)

Helf dilie, no umd: 5 minutes on buff scrolls vs 1.
19/1 or 18/2 w caster splash and extend: 10 minutes on inherents vs 2-4.
14/6 w caster dip and extend: 12 minutes vs... 12 minutes.

The result being it ends up more relatively detrimental to dip further than 2 for inherent buffing. Not really seeing an upside for multi-classing outside of a fairly confined space there.

[Ryiah]

With my suggestion the spell duration is actually longer than 1 min per level until you hit CL 20 and even then it’s the exact same duration. And if it didn’t need some rebalancing then why did the devs make the change in the first place?

You clearly didn't read the rest of my posts or you would have known that I'm not saying Turbine shouldn't mess with time at all. I like the 5 minutes + 1 minute per caster level idea they're going with. I fail to see how your suggestion is anything but a nerf of that.

[QuantumFX]

You clearly didn't read the rest of my posts or you would have known that I'm not saying Turbine shouldn't mess with time at all. I like the 5 minutes + 1 minute per caster level idea they're going with. I fail to see how your suggestion is anything but a nerf of that.

But that’s not what they’re going with. Read the release notes again and you would see that it’s 5 minutes *or* 1 minute per level whichever is higher.

[voxson5]

Mm makes low levels and shield clickies *much* more enjoyable

And and the korthos angers boots! It's gonna be great!

[QuantumFX]

Well, here's how I see the implications of the present implementation. By all means, point out an oversight:

(lam vs live)

Helf dilie, no umd: 5 minutes on buff scrolls vs 1.
19/1 or 18/2 w caster splash and extend: 10 minutes on inherents vs 2-4.
14/6 w caster dip and extend: 12 minutes vs... 12 minutes.

The result being it ends up more relatively detrimental to dip further than 2 for inherent buffing. Not really seeing an upside for multi-classing outside of a fairly confined space there.

Half-Elf with scroll or wand:
CL1 Wand:
- On Live: 1 minute of <buff>
- On Lamma: 5 minutes of <buff>
- My Suggestion: 5 minutes of <buff>

CL5 Wand
- On Live: 5 minute of <buff>
- On Lamma: 5 minutes of <buff>
- My Suggestion: 8 minutes, 45 seconds of <buff>

CL10 Wand
- On Live: 10 minute of <buff>
- On Lamma: 10 minutes of <buff>
- My Suggestion: 12 minutes, 30 seconds of <buff>

18/2 (I’m going to assume you mean that the lower number is the caster level)
Extended <buff>
- On Live: 4 minute of <buff>
- On Lamma: 5 minutes of <buff>
- My Suggestion: 13 minutes of <buff>

14/6 (Again assuming the 6 represents the caster levels and extend)
Extended <buff>
- On Live: 12 minute of <buff>
- On Lamma: 12 minutes of <buff>
- My Suggestion: 19 minutes of <buff>

Mm makes low levels and shield clickies *much* more enjoyable

And and the korthos angers boots! It's gonna be great!

Agreed! Also, it should make the upgraded Abbot quiver haters happy.

And since AC is going to become a bit of a mixed bag Prot Evil is going to be a useful little spell as well. (Hopefully Shield of Faith got this change as well)

[Scraap]

I’m going to assume you mean that the lower number is the caster level

Did. Thanks for both the clarification, and further spelling out implications of your proposed vs the beta-implemented systems.