the great race debate

[Saravis]

I wish people would stop concerning themselves with what is the uber, tippy top, best and just enjoy the freedom and diversity of build and playstyles. What is the fun in running around with the same copycat clone builds? You can complete the quests regardless of if the toon is made of squishy flesh or flammable wood.

[Alex301]

My answer to this question, as with most concerning the 'best' of something, is that there isn't a 'best' race, just different ones. They both have their advantages and disadvantages and which one is 'better' really comes down to what you want out of them.

Sure a WF is easier to play as a newb, but that doesn't mean it's inferior to a vet either. Some of the feats achieved by WF sorcerers, such as soloing epic chronoscope or tod without pots, i doubt could be achieved by a human sorcerer, but then the high DCs and utility achieved by fleshy sorcerers can not be matched by WF.

To simply state that one is better than the other is oversimplifying it imo. A better question would be which is better for you? and that depends on what you value more and what you want out of your toon.

[SirValentine]

I hope when the enhancement pass comes out that Elven Arcanum is available to Wizards, Sorcs, FvS, Clerics, Bards, and Artificers.

And Rangers! They have an offensive spell that is subject to spell resistance, too!

[AylinIsAwesome]

And Rangers! They have an offensive spell that is subject to spell resistance, too!

Uh...you're talking about Hold Animal? o_O

Not really seeing the point...

[SirValentine]

Uh...you're talking about Hold Animal? o_O

Not really seeing the point...

Only point is that if they are not limiting it to Wizards, they should open it up everyone that can potentially benefit from it, instead of trying to decide for us who "really" needs it. Just in general, I'd rather players have the widest range of options, rather than be limited by Turbine to "approved" builds.

It would suck to be an Enchantment-specced Ranger, grind hard to reach a DC in the 40s, and fail your spell pen check. :-)

[pHo3nix]

Its not a cop out. How do you even define "best option"? Easiest to play? Highest DPS? Highest survivability?

There are races that have advantages over WF - every other race (save for horcs and dwarves) has better DCs, drow significantly so, humans have extra feat, helves have dilly, etc. etc. and they have drawbacks too. Is it better to have higher HPs or saves? DCs or immunities? Are we talking best option for newbies, experienced players, first-lifers, multiple TRs? Levelling or endgame, soloing, partying or raiding? Which raids?

Every other advantage other races may have is useless if you are dead.

You can be the best player of DDO, but scroll healing is not even remotely comparable to a quicken reconstruct.
Scroll healing is great, but sometime it's not enough. SF pots are great for bad moments too if you got the stats and the HA to support them, but chug one and your DC is now lower than the wf.

Oh, and i think that the only sorcerer to solo ToD (without sp pots) was a wf

[Tid12]

Every other advantage other races may have is useless if you are dead.

You can be the best player of DDO, but scroll healing is not even remotely comparable to a quicken reconstruct.
Scroll healing is great, but sometime it's not enough. SF pots are great for bad moments too if you got the stats and the HA to support them, but chug one and your DC is now lower than the wf.

Oh, and i think that the only sorcerer to solo ToD (without sp pots) was a wf

Doesn't mean anything who soloed ToD. Noone will argue that a quicken reconstruct is better than heal, however it is not the master race.

In boss fights, a fleshy sorc air/water/maybe earth too will out dps the WF caster due to his 3+ DC. The WF will probably just use SLAs and Dots (and polar ray) while the fleshy can go full out (chain, ball lightning, otilukes, lightning bolt etc) with FAR many evades on boss' head.

[Zachski]

Elven Arcanum only makes sense with classes that use arcane magic. Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Artificer.

I'd kinda like it if Dwarf was the equivalent for divine classes, but instead, it seems like there's a better way than that.

Rename Elven Arcanum to something like, oh, I dunno... "Elf Spell Mastery".

[good_ole_corwin]

Elven Arcanum only makes sense with classes that use arcane magic. Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Artificer.

I'd kinda like it if Dwarf was the equivalent for divine classes, but instead, it seems like there's a better way than that.

Rename Elven Arcanum to something like, oh, I dunno... "Elf Spell Mastery".

Elven Arcanum is in the game because traditionally, wizard is the favored class for elves. Thats why elves get an enhancement line that helps them as wizards, not as sorcs, arties, rangers or anything else.

[tinyelvis]

Every other advantage other races may have is useless if you are dead.

You can be the best player of DDO, but scroll healing is not even remotely comparable to a quicken reconstruct.
Scroll healing is great, but sometime it's not enough. SF pots are great for bad moments too if you got the stats and the HA to support them, but chug one and your DC is now lower than the wf.

Oh, and i think that the only sorcerer to solo ToD (without sp pots) was a wf

The only sorcerer to land 100 spells without mobs making a save probably was not a WF. Most WF casters are 3 to 5 DC down when compared to their fleshy counterparts. This is due to fact that many WF players value survivability and hitpoints above all else. I would guess the best Fleshy sorcerers online currently have DC's at least TEN points higher than the WF who solo'd ToD. Why is that, because to solo TOD you dont need spell DC's that high, but good self healing and high hit points really help a lot.

On a similar note, you dont need super high hit points or top of the line self healing to level super fast. In fact, one shot killing mobs pretty much insures that you never get hit at all. The best way, imo to level fast is to get super high DC's. Mine generally hit the 40's by the time I get to level 12.

[good_ole_corwin]

The best way, imo to level fast is to get super high DC's. Mine generally hit the 40's by the time I get to level 12.

While I can agree with the first sentence, I couldnt but notice that this post went without comment.