In theory, would it be better to... (build guidance wanted)

[Brinzy]

Run Power Attack on a spellsinger and:

a) run Weapon Focus and Improved Crit in case I decide to go warchanter and want to have decent DPS and melee buffing songs,
b) run just Weapon Focus for the warchanter pre-req opening and save a feat for spellsinger, or
c) stick with just Improved Crit and make the rest of me CC/healing focused (original idea)


Some factors/questions I am trying to keep in mind:

- 98% of my grouping currently is with two friends, so my personal DPS probably matters more I would assume. I would love to plan for a 6 man party build but it will be a while before I do those on my bard... barely do them on my cleric
- one friend plays everything but a healer (mostly the caster), the other plays strictly melee, so I am committed to healing, but I am not sure how much I need to focus on my ability to CC and my ability to DPS
- I have not experienced endgame content - will I need the two spell focus feats? I am not necessarily opposed to taking them - I just think squeezing more personal DPS out of feats is a better idea. To be fair, I've already picked up Extend and despite what all the guides say I find myself keeping us hasted/raged 100% of the dungeon anyway, sometimes refreshing 2 mins before it wears off just because I can.
- I am mainly thinking about having warchanter open as a possibility because of how the one friend is a melee meathead; still, did anyone do this and find it worth it?

I do know we can change around feats and all; I just want to have more educated and experienced opinions before I really decide what exactly I want to aim for. I tried a warchanter about a year ago and got rid of him because I hated his level split. Currently running spellsinger and I'm very satisfied so far.

[cru121]

We don't know enough about your bard to offer advice.

If you're a pure spell singer with maxed charisma, then you have the potential to have decent CC but you need to focus on it.

If you're splashed, your CC probably won't be too useful at cap (capstone gives +3 effective enchantment DC).

In a small group, warchanter melee bonuses over spell singer (+1 attack / +2 damage) seem marginal. Also the GH song is not so important for saving mana.

That said, if you aren't pure and don't have max charisma, you probably won't be able to CC effectively (except fascinate and irresistible dance). In this case, investment towards melee DPS might be worthwhile.

[Brinzy]

My apologies, forgot.

Staying 20 bard, human

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18

Currently have Toughness, Extend, Power Attack, Maximize. Spellsinger. Cure Mod/Serious Wounds, Rage/Focusing Chant, Glitterdust/Sleep for healing/buffing/CC.

[Bacab]

With a CHR that high...

Your only choice really is to go spellsinger.

Warchanter needs other stats also.

[Brinzy]

For future reference, what other stats do I need on the list?

I don't think it needs to be mentioned but I'm using 2hers.

[wax_on_wax_off]

My advice is to skip power attack. I realise this doesn't make sense now but give it another month and it will ...

[karl_k0ch]

A Caster-focused Spellsinger and melee Warchanter are pretty different in regards to play style and innate bonuses. They are both viable, and their contribution to the party depends on the setup of the party. Ultimately, it also depends on your personal preference.

Consider also that epic levels will grant you an extra feat at levels 21 and 24, which can be used for heroic feats and not yet disclosed epic feats.

With that kind of stat spread, I'd probably ignore the melee options 90% of the time, and thus focus on the caster feats. Consider getting your hands on an Epic Elyd Edge to take care of your rare melee encounters.

[Brinzy]

With this newfound info, to be completely honest I didn't really *want* melee feats, but I was afraid of being completely useless when my damage was necessary. If it isn't like that I'll gladly skip the damage feats and run the two spell DCs.

It's a shame sonic DPSing is weak.

[cru121]

You have:
Toughness
Extend
Power Attack
Maximize

You might need:
Spell Focus + Greater
Heighten
Spell Penetration + Greater
Quicken (for hjeals NOW!)
Empower Healing (for cost-effective healing)
IC:Slash would be nice for Terror.

[Brinzy]

Definitely getting Quicken. It has saved my butt too many times to count. : )

Also re-reading an earlier reply: what's happening to Power Attack in a month? I did a quick search but I didn't find anything.

[karl_k0ch]

With this newfound info, to be completely honest I didn't really *want* melee feats, but I was afraid of being completely useless when my damage was necessary. If it isn't like that I'll gladly skip the damage feats and run the two spell DCs.

It's a shame sonic DPSing is weak.

As a bard, you should not underestimate the passive DPS bonus you are providing in melee/archer heavy groups. The +6 damage/+6 to hit of a pure Spellsinger's Inspire Courage is the damage/to hit equivalent of the Epic Claw, Epic Raven's Sight and the Shintao Monk ToD set together.

[Urist]

Also re-reading an earlier reply: what's happening to Power Attack in a month? I did a quick search but I didn't find anything.

From what I can gather: DOOOooooOOOOOOOOOOooom!!!!1111!!1!11!10k

Beta; NDA; have to kill you, etc.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Your DPS will be fine with a Terror sword against trash

My suggestion for 8 feats:
Toughness
Maximize
IC:Slash
Empower Healing
Heighten
Quicken
Spell Penetration + Greater

It's a real bummer to miss SF/GSF: Enchantment but I can't see any feats above that I'd give up on favour of them. Instead I suppose the only option is to rely on debuffing like enervation scrolls, crushing despair and hypnotise.

[karl_k0ch]

One could drop empower healing.

[wax_on_wax_off]

One could drop empower healing.

True, it's just that with empower healing there's no reason you can't be a second healer in most raids (same goes for quicken). I'm not sure how possible it is to be a healer without either feat (a while since I've played a bard or a healer). Then again, if you're not interested in being a healer then no reason why not (but if you don't want to be a healer on occasion then I'd advise against a casting focused bard).

[legendlore]

c) stick with just Improved Crit and make the rest of me CC/healing focused (original idea)

This is what I did on my cc/heal bard, now dps will be lacking but it gives some nice delivery system for cc and debuffs (dazing from swashbuckler is awesome if you use shields, it interrupts most casters).

my feat setup was; sf enchantment & greater, ic piercing, maximize, heighten, quicken, spell pen, extend spell.

This allowed for reliable cc (dc 41, sp 29, could go sp 31) and enough healing for all 6 man content and to solo heal some easier raids (Reavers fate, normal Shroud etc). It was lacking in dps though.

Extend spell can easily be replaced for power attack if you want that for more dps (only wort it if you go 2h fighting I'd say) or toughness for those who can't live without it. Extend is really only needed for ToD otherwise it is easily recast and will in most party's be recast more often than it's full duration since there is always someone missing the buff, thus wasting sp anyway. It's nice while leveling though.

That being said I'm now rebuilding it as a twf for more dps and skipping healing, but hope it helps some, cc/healing can really be fun but don't expect any party to notice what your doing unless there are no other arcane or divines.