Shroud Grief

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Recall at 5/10/20%? Sure thing, great idea -- except when both of your healers dont want to be timered, and your raid wipes because they both recalled out early on elite, and suddenly all of your melees just got killed, then Harry starts systematically demolishing all of the ranged toons without his chew toys to distract him.

Who in the hell leaves early in an elite Shroud? It is run so rarely and one would assume they are there for the extra chests. I think in this case, this one case, your logic is severly flawed.

[Cyndrome]

A Poor Group???? NO!!!! There is no way a POOR group can even get past part 2 in 20 mins. You might be uber and there are lots of Uber players out there, but most are not at your self described level of uberness.

A good group can finish Shroud in 20 mins, but unfortunately there are very few of those out there.

I am saying that it should be a 20 minute raid in a POOR group- not that it usually is. All it takes is someone who can herd cats and 2 or 3 others who can help. It's not a matter of being uber. It's all about not sitting around at the quest entrance, at the entrance to every portal and after zoning in to each part. Assign buffs and buff as you go. If you cut out all of the sitting around that most groups do in pug shrouds it can be a very quick raid even in a group of under geared first life characters.

[Ivan_Milic]

All I can say is wow. Just...wow. There are some incredibly rude and obnoxious ppl in this thread, even just on the first page.

You just spend 20-30 mins (or more if it was a really bad run) doing the raid, and you are complaining about waiting an extra 60 seconds while someone DDoors out? REALLY?

Recall at 5/10/20%? Sure thing, great idea -- except when both of your healers dont want to be timered, and your raid wipes because they both recalled out early on elite, and suddenly all of your melees just got killed, then Harry starts systematically demolishing all of the ranged toons without his chew toys to distract him.

Now I'm sure that every person posting all this negativity is able to solo shroud elite, naked, but for the other 99.9% of the playerbase, lets have a tad bit more common courtesy.

If you plan to recall before completion, say so (type it AND say it). If you are a vet, you know ppl recall. dont touch the altar. If you are new, you shouldnt be touching a thing anyway. When you know someone is planing to recall, dont touch it till you see them drop group (or DC). Just seeing them die isnt good enough -- you can lag in the transition screen and get the completion anyway.

Solution: (Barring teaching everyone to play nice together) Change the mechanic so ONLY the person with the star can touch any of the altars. Then at least you know who to blacklist when they dont show simple courtesy. No more wondering who did it, no more worrying about 11 different ppl being too rude to wait a few seconds.

I dont care either way if someone wants to farm the raid. Almost everyone has doen it at some point (myself included) before learning that it is better to just take the timer and do it again in 3 days-- esp if you have multiple shroudable toons. I dont begrudge someone else doing it. I will wait an extra couple mins to give them a reasonable chance to get out. Thats plenty of time for them to die/DC/recall/whatever. Past that -- well you had your chance.

Stop pretending the victim is at fault when some ****** wont wait to hit the altar. We have an entire guild on Argo that is famous for this BS move, forcing auto-completes on everyone in the raid. The server-wide solution is to not allow them in raids, and not to join their raids unless you definitely plan to complete (and you WILL complete in their raids -- they are pro at shroud). All because a small group of players takes it upon themselves to decide that no one else is allowed to farm Shroud. And cos they think its cool to be jerks about it.

Why would you not complete elite shroud?

[Theender]

I honestly haven't read the entire thread so I'm sorry if I'm on repeat but,

Wouldn't it be easier now to removing the whole "I'm leaving" thing at the end? Just, after Harry dies, the shroud finishes. No waiting time. Much like Tod. I know it sounds crazy, but with this shroud end reward list thing, the incentives to completing shroud seems much more justified even on Normal. The only Con I can see against this arguement is when someone wants to grind shards. But honestly I get plenty of shards before I get enough ingredients. Sure some people will complain of the good ol' days when we could leave before finishing but the complaints there will be far outnumbered by the potential "Wait. I'm leaving... ... OMG! Who clicked altar?!"

And this sort of thread would become non existant.

[stainer]

I have a formula for clicking the altar. I have percentages based on certain criteria, and then roll dice. If I roll the percentage, I click the altar immediately.

someone says they are ddoor'g prior to the group being filled +5%
someone says they need so and so shard before the group fills +5%
portal keeper appears in part 1 +5%
people rolls on shards +1%
I kill a mob in part 2 and people are still rolling on shards +20%
someone is crafting +30%
someone says "need help with 4x4" +40%
wall comes up +75%
someone asks for GH + 15%
part 4 takes longer than 1 round + 10%
part 4 takes 1 round -10%
someone has a lieutenant saved +10%
ddoor is cast near the altar +20%

As you can see the results can get into auto click pretty easily.

[mobrien316]

I can see someone feeling they have been griefed if they made it clear, on voice and in chat, that they were leaving and someone still clicked the altar. However, in my experience, that rarely happens.


What happens most of the time is multiple people ask if anyone is leaving and no one says a word and no one types anything into chat. Someone hits the altar and suddenly we are all jerks because someone was leaving and they expected us to know that. That's not griefing, in my opinion.


It should be the responsibility of the person(s) who want to leave without a completion to make sure that the rest of the group knows they are leaving. If the leader is telling everyone not to click the altar because two people are leaving, and someone says "screw them" and clicks the altar anyway, that is griefing. If people are just too stupid to let anyone know because they assume several minutes will go by after Harry dies before anyone clicks the altar, they have been griefed by their Creator with inferior intelligence.

[Enoach]

DDoor should no longer be used in shroud, especially since the bug that put you in Korthos was fixed. It places a person in a place where they can potentially get cut off from chests when a completion is done (/stuck can resolve this on occasion)

The best way to leave a shroud is teleport, bar-non. It's an instant transport out and to someplace else. Second best is recall and /death

I've been running Shroud since it came out, and honestly I don't understand why people want to farm. Of the 100s of runs I've done on each of the 5 characters I have, I can count on 1 hand where someone hit the alter while others were leaving. Yes there are people out there that for them giving others a hard time is their fun. But these same people tend to get on people's lists rather fast.

To the OP, I'm sorry that you were not able to farm the quest as you had wanted. I don't agree with the 2 minute timer and it less to do with adding 2 minutes of time and more to do with forcing others to wait. Courtesy goes both ways.

[NXPlasmid]

Anyone foolish enough to use a D-Door to exit instead of recalling isn't deserving of sympathy if they get screwed out of loot.

The bug that made people use D-Door was fixed what, 3 years ago now?

Just tell people in voice and text chat 'hey, I'm leaving', and recall at 10% if they can finish without you, or instantly on Harry's death if they cannot. And if some idiot hits the altar early, you have recourse - you just cancel the recall.

I lolz'ed

[NXPlasmid]

I have a formula for clicking the altar. I have percentages based on certain criteria, and then roll dice. If I roll the percentage, I click the altar immediately.

someone says they are ddoor'g prior to the group being filled +5%
someone says they need so and so shard before the group fills +5%
portal keeper appears in part 1 +5%
people rolls on shards +1%
I kill a mob in part 2 and people are still rolling on shards +20%
someone is crafting +30%
someone says "need help with 4x4" +40%
wall comes up +75%
someone asks for GH + 15%
part 4 takes longer than 1 round + 10%
part 4 takes 1 round -10%
someone has a lieutenant saved +10%
ddoor is cast near the altar +20%

As you can see the results can get into auto click pretty easily.

Sry for the back to back post, but the image in my mind of Stainer in the middle of part 5, healing the group while trying to do the percentage calcluations with an old #2 pencil on as piece of binder paper besides his mouse with the eraser dust and recalculations, all the while typing into one of the raid channels about how screwed up the group is... priceless. Spoon

[jydog100]

Can you guys PLEASE add a two minute timer after the last part of the shroud when he dies?
I am REALLY REALLY tired of stupid people hitting the altar and griefing everyone who is trying to leave.

I was in mid ddoor out when someone did it today, so i lost out on two chests and have to wait for timer because some little snot nosed kid thinks its funny to cause grief for everyone else.

One person should not be allowed to mess things up for everyone else in the raid.

How bout we have the raid end like Vod, Hound, ToD etc....boss dies, raid over. done. That way no one needs to wait for anything. problem solved

[Gkar]

I have a formula for clicking the altar. I have percentages based on certain criteria, and then roll dice. If I roll the percentage, I click the altar immediately.

someone is crafting +50%
someone casts ddoor +50%
ddoor is cast near the altar +100%

As you can see the results can get into auto click pretty easily.

I suggest you modify the formula as indicated above.

DDO is the biggest griefing tool in the Shroud. You should be banned for casting it.

[jydog100]

If you can think of a better way to stop the grief im all ears.

see post #110

[sweez]

I have a formula for clicking the altar. I have percentages based on certain criteria, and then roll dice. If I roll the percentage, I click the altar immediately.

someone says they are ddoor'g prior to the group being filled +5%
someone says they need so and so shard before the group fills +5%
portal keeper appears in part 1 +5%
people rolls on shards +1%
I kill a mob in part 2 and people are still rolling on shards +20%
someone is crafting +30%
someone says "need help with 4x4" +40%
wall comes up +75%
someone asks for GH + 15%
part 4 takes longer than 1 round + 10%
part 4 takes 1 round -10%
someone has a lieutenant saved +10%
ddoor is cast near the altar +20%

As you can see the results can get into auto click pretty easily.

I see you are approaching the issue arithmetically!

[sweez]

I honestly haven't read the entire thread so I'm sorry if I'm on repeat but,

Wouldn't it be easier now to removing the whole "I'm leaving" thing at the end? Just, after Harry dies, the shroud finishes. No waiting time. Much like Tod. I know it sounds crazy, but with this shroud end reward list thing, the incentives to completing shroud seems much more justified even on Normal. The only Con I can see against this arguement is when someone wants to grind shards. But honestly I get plenty of shards before I get enough ingredients. Sure some people will complain of the good ol' days when we could leave before finishing but the complaints there will be far outnumbered by the potential "Wait. I'm leaving... ... OMG! Who clicked altar?!"

And this sort of thread would become non existant.

An excellent suggestion, should try posting it on the Suggestions forum, the carebear rage would be glorious.

[Eladiun]

Sry for the back to back post, but the image in my mind of Stainer in the middle of part 5, healing the group while trying to do the percentage calcluations with an old #2 pencil on as piece of binder paper besides his mouse with the eraser dust and recalculations, all the while typing into one of the raid channels about how screwed up the group is... priceless. Spoon

I pictured him using this...

[Gkar]

The problem is im a fighter so i get interrupted if i try your suggestions, and if i back up and do that before he is dead it feels like im basically saying "im outta here at 10% so i dont care if you actually get the kill"

Unless the party is near wipe (in which case no one is left to "grief" you anyway) then one fighter doesn't matter, at all.

Also death and recall dont do anything if someone hits the altar while you're waiting for either to take effect.

Interupt recall/death and look. No big loss.

Maybe you guys are real good at timing it but im not.
If ddoor is so outdated, then why is there someone putting one up after each shroud run?

Generally I assume anyone who puts one up is either stupid, or is deliberately trying to grief the party. Sadly I'm seen more than one person griefed by a Ddoor caster that left the innocent party member unable to get the end chests.

I'll repeat again, casting Ddoor should be a banable griefing offense.

The problem with completing for me is that i was just off the timer today and wanted to run shroud a few times over the weekend since its a holiday, now i cant because of other people's grief.

I think you mean, other people completing the quest as designed and intended while you failed to cheese your way out of completion properly.

There are very few reasons not to finish? really? are you serious? You like getting 1 maybe 2 larges then waiting
3 days to get more? really? Make any dual shard weapons lately?

You average .5 larges a run if you don't complete.

If you do complete you average 1.5 on normal, 2 on hard, and 2.5 on elite. I believe in this example we were talking about an elite run so that means on 20 runs, you would have earned 10 larges your way (not enough for a GS dual shard), while the person who completed earned 50 larges (30 if they only ran normal), plus 5+ larges and 10+ vale ingredients from the 20 completion end lists, plus a +2/+3 tome list and/or a cleansing stone.

Sounds like a real fools errand to failed to complete.

I have to laugh at all the people complaining that two min would waste their time...boohoo..
If you can think of a better way to stop the grief im all ears.

Force completion when you kill Harry.

[madmaxhunter]

Just do what I (used to) do:

Put up your own LFM, put in LFM "double run, parts 1-4 recall/reset then run for completion".

You save the time from fighting Harry in phase 5. You keep a full group. You save yourself from having to wait at the end of phase 5.

[rdasca]

OP, do what I did and start leading your own groups; of course my problem was the opposite of yours, I was tired of waiting on people to get out after the quest was over.

So my LFMs read like this: "Fast Shroud, min buffs, go when full, no d-door" and sometimes if I am in a real hurry I put "break crystals", funny thing is these groups always fill faster than if I put a LFM for "Shroud".

So I suggest you put up a LFM that says: "Shroud, d-door at the end, will wait 2 min b4 hitting alter" and you should not have your problem anymore.

[Hordo]

Three words: Royal Guard Mask.

[Postumus]

Can you guys PLEASE add a two minute timer after the last part of the shroud when he dies?
I am REALLY REALLY tired of stupid people hitting the altar and griefing everyone who is trying to leave.

I was in mid ddoor out when someone did it today, so i lost out on two chests and have to wait for timer because some little snot nosed kid thinks its funny to cause grief for everyone else.

One person should not be allowed to mess things up for everyone else in the raid.

Relax, you can run it again in three days.