Shroud Grief

[garlor]

I don't see how this can be considered griefing, they are just playing the quest the way it's supposed to

btw, the ddoor thingie, it's kinda stupid to still be using it, the reason it was used in the past was because of a bug that if you recalled and left the group you could still get the completion, that bug doesn't exist anymore, but I guess some people has not enough intelligence to ask himself why something is done in a given way and try for a better one

[Loromir]

It should be a 20 minute quest in a poor group.

A Poor Group???? NO!!!! There is no way a POOR group can even get past part 2 in 20 mins. You might be uber and there are lots of Uber players out there, but most are not at your self described level of uberness.

A good group can finish Shroud in 20 mins, but unfortunately there are very few of those out there.

[varusso]

All I can say is wow. Just...wow. There are some incredibly rude and obnoxious ppl in this thread, even just on the first page.

You just spend 20-30 mins (or more if it was a really bad run) doing the raid, and you are complaining about waiting an extra 60 seconds while someone DDoors out? REALLY?

Recall at 5/10/20%? Sure thing, great idea -- except when both of your healers dont want to be timered, and your raid wipes because they both recalled out early on elite, and suddenly all of your melees just got killed, then Harry starts systematically demolishing all of the ranged toons without his chew toys to distract him.

Now I'm sure that every person posting all this negativity is able to solo shroud elite, naked, but for the other 99.9% of the playerbase, lets have a tad bit more common courtesy.

If you plan to recall before completion, say so (type it AND say it). If you are a vet, you know ppl recall. dont touch the altar. If you are new, you shouldnt be touching a thing anyway. When you know someone is planing to recall, dont touch it till you see them drop group (or DC). Just seeing them die isnt good enough -- you can lag in the transition screen and get the completion anyway.

Solution: (Barring teaching everyone to play nice together) Change the mechanic so ONLY the person with the star can touch any of the altars. Then at least you know who to blacklist when they dont show simple courtesy. No more wondering who did it, no more worrying about 11 different ppl being too rude to wait a few seconds.

I dont care either way if someone wants to farm the raid. Almost everyone has doen it at some point (myself included) before learning that it is better to just take the timer and do it again in 3 days-- esp if you have multiple shroudable toons. I dont begrudge someone else doing it. I will wait an extra couple mins to give them a reasonable chance to get out. Thats plenty of time for them to die/DC/recall/whatever. Past that -- well you had your chance.

Stop pretending the victim is at fault when some ****** wont wait to hit the altar. We have an entire guild on Argo that is famous for this BS move, forcing auto-completes on everyone in the raid. The server-wide solution is to not allow them in raids, and not to join their raids unless you definitely plan to complete (and you WILL complete in their raids -- they are pro at shroud). All because a small group of players takes it upon themselves to decide that no one else is allowed to farm Shroud. And cos they think its cool to be jerks about it.

[Vellrad]

to farm vs completion people:

You seem to forget, that people recalling out of shroud will finish it after few runs, meaning they won't miss completion, phase 5 chests etc.

While its not really time efficient for mats, shard of power on end list is so low drop rate that I'm gonna farm it anyway on each new character

[JollySwagMan]

There is in my opinion only one reason to not complete Shroud every time you enter.

That is if you have all the ingredients you need, but not a small/medium shard of power. Then you can farm Shroud until you get that shard and then complete.

Other than that you are always better of in the long run if you complete. I see in the thread some people argue that we oldtimers have forgotten how it is to not have a load of ingredients and a new player needs to farm to get their items done. This is wrong.

What we do have is the experience that we all realized after a point that we would have been better off in the long run if we had completed Shroud every day we came off timer rather than farm it until ransacked at the chests up to part 4.

If you still insist on farming the Shroud, the only good way to do it is to do 1-2 farming runs, then complete. Never delay completion by a day. And never farm it so excessively that you get ransacked on the chests.

In the end every Shroud veteran has realised that completing every time is the best way to do it, because you will need those cleansing essences and +3 tomes

While this is relevant information, there are other factors. The biggie imo is playtime differences: some players don't play everyday. Also, some don't have alts in shroud range/are after the trash loot/are running the raid more for hands on experience than ingredients..

[Kawai]

Solution: (Barring teaching everyone to play nice together) Change the mechanic so ONLY the person with the star can touch any of the altars. Then at least you know who to blacklist when they dont show simple courtesy. No more wondering who did it, no more worrying about 11 different ppl being too rude to wait a few seconds.

+1. This aone would be a great idea top fix it, cheerz luv.
-Tarelyn

[Llewndyn]

Today I saw someone ddooring out of one of the puzzle rooms... XD I guess he thought it was a smart move to get out without solving the puzzle or somehting. He spent the rest of the raid piking at the entrance.

...that I never thought of that.

[ericrd]

how do you get less mats from shroud by ransacking? if you ransack it in less than 24 hrs and then get completion you still get 2 completions per week plus 10 chest per non completion runs (5 of those)= 50 extra chances for mats and you still got your 2 completions that week

[Eladiun]

The bug that made people use D-Door was fixed what, 3 years ago now?

So true, and most people who do it now have no idea why we used to do it in the first place.

[sweez]

Casting/using DDoor in Shroud = griefing

[Battlehawke]

Op, I'm amazed at your thought pattern here. You want the entire Dev team to spend their time revamping the end of this quest so that it CAN'T be finished until you are satisfied. Instead of altering the quest for the rest of the DDO community, why not just alter the way YOU play? Do you have to stay for the death of the end boss? Why can't YOU DD Out or /death?

Some people don't think before the do things. Some people are new or make mistakes, and stuff does happen. But really? You want the Devs to start making it so that people CAN'T finish finishing a quest after it's completed? Two more minutes? That will not stop idiots or newbs. Don't make the quest longer please, just change the way YOU play. Don't get mad at everyone for giving you advice, that's clearly a better solution.

[sweez]

Recall at 5/10/20%? Sure thing, great idea -- except when both of your healers dont want to be timered, and your raid wipes because they both recalled out early on elite, and suddenly all of your melees just got killed, then Harry starts systematically demolishing all of the ranged toons without his chew toys to distract him.

People don't recall from elite. You do elite for two reasons: favor and extra chests. You don't get either of those if you recall.

On the other hand, if you can't get harry down from 10% to dead without healers (assuming everyone else in group stayed), you don't deserve a shroud completion

[Eladiun]

how do you get less mats from shroud by ransacking? if you ransack it in less than 24 hrs and then get completion you still get 2 completions per week plus 10 chest per non completion runs (5 of those)= 50 extra chances for mats and you still got your 2 completions that week

Time spent vs Reward

If your goal is to make Tier III, the limiting factor is larges. By the time you have all of the larges just running Shroud to completion, you will already have all the mediums and smalls by default. Also, you will be that many more completions to a +3 tome. If you just want to farm larges, Elite Devil Assault is faster and more efficient.

[Antheal]

I wonder how funny it would be if the Devs changed the completion mechanic so that the quest completes the instant Arraetrikos dies instead of when the altar is activated?

They'd be all like *trollface* and PROBLEM?

[ericrd]

thanks for your responce. i agree about the meds and smalls but in my last 5 non completion runs( i got them done in 10 hrs from coming off timer then did completion)i got 5 large mats plus 1 lds(lucky)that i wouldnt have gotten otherwise..devils assualt can drop larges it is easy to solo but still takes close to a half hour,ive done it about six times solo and have only gotten a med mat and a boot ing.. maybe bad luck on my part

[Eladiun]

I wonder how funny it would be if the Devs changed the completion mechanic so that the quest completes the instant Arraetrikos dies instead of when the altar is activated?

They'd be all like *trollface* and PROBLEM?

Great suggestion. I like it.

[Loromir]

Time spent vs Reward

If your goal is to make Tier III, the limiting factor is larges. By the time you have all of the larges just running Shroud to completion, you will already have all the mediums and smalls by default. Also, you will be that many more completions to a +3 tome. If you just want to farm larges, Elite Devil Assault is faster and more efficient.

Except, you can get Larges in part 4, so there is some (Al be it, minimal) merit to exiting before completion.

[MRMechMan]

Except, you can get Larges in part 4, so there is some (Al be it, minimal) merit to exiting before completion.

30min for 1/2 a large? Probably 40+min when you count groups filling/buffing etc.

Go into sins on normal and zerg it all for chests...you will pull more larges in 30-40min that way.

Can't solo sins on any character? Roll a caster and you have a scroll farmer as well...a capped arcane/divine is useful on any account...plus a lot of fun to level (IMO).

Shards or a later run that you want to partake in are probably the only reason I would ever not complete. Even if I was itching to TR a character, I would probably still complete...I don't mind waiting a few days and doing other stuff, usually.


edit: on the whole I agree with you though, just saying that there are almost always better ways to spend time than farming shroud

[phillymiket]

Sometimes I don't want to complete.

Like if I have a brand new character and want the shards to make a few GSs.

It can take a few runs to get a few of each shard.
I don't want to wait to equip a HP or SP item.

I always say I'm leaving before complete and ask if I should leave at 10% or will we be waiting at the end.
That way the leader won't be upset at early departure and also if you are that concerned with the extra few seconds then you can speak up then.
I figure if someone hits the alter anyway then I'd get lol's from seeing the display of rudeness and would just wait the 3 days to make the GS.

Never once had a problem.

In fact, the once or twice I've seen this problem was when the raid leader was clearly hustling and the one leaving didn't declare intentions. Maybe Ghallanda is different.

I see no reason to have only the star be able to click the alter or anything like that.

What if the star DCs or AFKs? or are themselves griefing by not hitting the alter (far worse), etc etc.
.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

The problem is im a fighter so i get interrupted if i try your suggestions, and if i back up and do that before he is dead it feels like im basically saying "im outta here at 10% so i dont care if you actually get the kill"

Im sure they can make do without you.

I dont really care if they decided to change it so everyone HAS to complete, i just hate being at the mercy of someone who feels like messing it up for [bold]everyone else[/bold] is a funny thing to do.

Everyone else you mean the average 1-2 people out of 12? Thats everyone else?

I have to laugh at all the people complaining that two min would waste their time...boohoo..
If you can think of a better way to stop the grief im all ears.

You seriously believe this is griefing is the funny part. Griefing would be trying to grease you when you are recalling.