Shroud Grief

[hecate355]

The problem is im a fighter so i get interrupted if i try your suggestions, and if i back up and do that before he is dead it feels like im basically saying "im outta here at 10% so i dont care if you actually get the kill"

Also death and recall dont do anything if someone hits the altar while you're waiting for either to take effect.
Maybe you guys are real good at timing it but im not.
If ddoor is so outdated, then why is there someone putting one up after each shroud run?

The problem with completing for me is that i was just off the timer today and wanted to run shroud a few times over the weekend since its a holiday, now i cant because of other people's grief.

I dont really care if they decided to change it so everyone HAS to complete, i just hate being at the mercy of someone who feels like messing it up for everyone else is a funny thing to do.

There are very few reasons not to finish? really? are you serious? You like getting 1 maybe 2 larges then waiting
3 days to get more? really? Make any dual shard weapons lately?

I have to laugh at all the people complaining that two min would waste their time...boohoo..
If you can think of a better way to stop the grief im all ears.

I dont know which server and with whom you play, over where i play(Ghallanda), in past months, i only recall maybe one incident of some one not making outside if they wanted. And i ran many shrouds during that time, with 4-5 chars.

As for reasons to complete. Without completing you get like 3 decent chances for large, after that you will be ransacked. While completing you have 2 more chances(total 3 per one run, including multiple shards and possibly amrath boot materials etc) AND a completion towards +3 tome/cleansing. You can keep running it even after ransack and roll for shards people put up, true.

[grayham]

I think you must be very unlucky, or just very slow to get your act together once Harry is down. I think I've been in 2 shrouds ever, out of maybe 80+, where the altar has been clicked early and someone who wanted to leave couldn't.

[Charononus]

Griefing of this type is very rare from what I've seen, typically most wait until all are out if you say you are leaving. Also adding a timer of this sort would be griefing those who want a completion imo to benefit the .00000001% that avoid completions after the change to shroud end rewards.

[Chilldude]

A 2 minute timer so people can purposefully not complete the raid they just completed? Nah.

How about just make the raid complete when Harry dies? Problem solved.

There's no reason not to finish Shroud. Any reason you have is due to a failing to see the big picture. If you have 2-3 characters that keep Shroud on timer, you'll be swimming in ingredients in no time.

I get tired of having to wait 2 minutes while the raid leader continuously asks, "Anyone not finishing? Anyone? Anyone?..."

[falcate]

I dont remember asking for sympathy, i asked for a way to stop grief.
I think some of you guys arent understanding what im trying to get across.

One person should not be able to "mess up" other people in the shroud or any other quest in the game.
So really all the "just do this" advice doesnt really help, and wont until the mechanic is changed.

Kinda like the people that like to throw grease around, they think its hilarious, but to most everyone else its just
an annoyance...just like this.

Im amazed at the amount of negativity you guys seem to have.

We understand perfectly the point you are trying to get across. It is just no one cares, because it isn't a problem worth worrying about or asking for a quest nerf for because it's not griefing to finish a quest you just ran. It is on you to get out in time, even if that means running to a safe spot to either recall or /death.

The problem is im a fighter so i get interrupted if i try your suggestions, and if i back up and do that before he is dead it feels like im basically saying "im outta here at 10% so i dont care if you actually get the kill"

Sorry you feel that way. People will understand and appreciate you recalling at 10% however, it saves you from expecting them to wait for you to clear 2 loading screens via ddoor.

If you can think of a better way to stop the grief im all ears

Every piece of advice in this thread was suggested to prevent grief. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.


The only reasonable suggestion in this thread is Vengeance777's to add a dimensional anchor to force people to not use ddoor anymore. This method of leaving quest is prone to causing situations like you describe.
At least using /death or recall offers the recourse of interrupting and grabbing your loot, should you find someone hits the altar while you're trying to leave.

[SupTyr]

One person should not be able to "mess up" other people in the shroud or any other quest in the game.

I agree.

Although shroud is a bad example. There are only two points where you can get locked out. At the very beginning and if you use a ddoor during the raid. No real problem since you can just recall and join the next group if you get locked out in the beginning and of course you should avoid any ddoors.

Vault of Night on the other hand... I get the feeling sometimes this raid was designed to intentionally grief the players...

or Vision of Destruction.. someone moves a muscle and the portal just vanishes without a warning.. really??

[gamblorjb]

My question is why the OP wants a 2 min timer. As has been mentioned it takes about 9 seconds to recall. If anything (and I don't think it's necessary) have a 10 sec timer. I'm sure people could live with 10 secs. On the rare occassions that I want to recall (maybe helping someone out but running with Guild later that day) I always recall when Harry nearly dead and have never had an issue getting out in time.

[Lleren]

People still put up ddoors after the Shroud for two reasons:

1) they are sheep or
2)they are sick of listening to sheep

3) They didn't do the research
4) They are trying to grief you and get you stuck with a completion and no loot.
5) Tradition!
=D

[hecate355]

I agree.

Although shroud is a bad example. There are only two points where you can get locked out. At the very beginning and if you use a ddoor during the raid. No real problem since you can just recall and join the next group if you get locked out in the beginning and of course you should avoid any ddoors.

Vault of Night on the other hand... I get the feeling sometimes this raid was designed to intentionally grief the players...

or Vision of Destruction.. someone moves a muscle and the portal just vanishes without a warning.. really??

Most quests can be griefed, if some one really wants to mess you up. There is no reliable protection to have in such cases, other than self regulation. Eventually '****s' get squelched alltogether with their alts.

[alexp80]

Recalling before completing it's not wai, so don't expect staff help on that.

[protokon]

If anything they need to change it so the quest auto-completes on harry's death. Then there is no "griefing".

The only reason you should be trying to not complete for is because you are desperate for a shard of power (usually supreme). There are much more efficient ways to make money and just buy the large ingredients you need instead of wasting 45 mins for a chance at one large.

[Ziindarax]

The problem is im a fighter so i get interrupted if i try your suggestions, and if i back up and do that before he is dead it feels like im basically saying "im outta here at 10% so i dont care if you actually get the kill"

Also death and recall dont do anything if someone hits the altar while you're waiting for either to take effect.
Maybe you guys are real good at timing it but im not.
If ddoor is so outdated, then why is there someone putting one up after each shroud run?

The problem with completing for me is that i was just off the timer today and wanted to run shroud a few times over the weekend since its a holiday, now i cant because of other people's grief.

I dont really care if they decided to change it so everyone HAS to complete, i just hate being at the mercy of someone who feels like messing it up for everyone else is a funny thing to do.

There are very few reasons not to finish? really? are you serious? You like getting 1 maybe 2 larges then waiting
3 days to get more? really? Make any dual shard weapons lately?

I have to laugh at all the people complaining that two min would waste their time...boohoo..
If you can think of a better way to stop the grief im all ears.

Not signed to this or your OP. Learn to play the game on windowed mode (at the fullest size possible), and when harry is about to die (about 2-5% of HP), you can say "I am out". Or, before you even face Harry a second time, you can say "I'm going to leave when Harry gets low on health". What you can do next is both instant, and uninterruptible - you hit the "x" at the top right of your screen; this will take you out of the game instantly, and D/C'ed characters do NOT get the exp from the completion because they did not "partake" in the completion the moment it was completed. Log on an alt after the fact, then back on the guy who ran shroud if you want to play again.

Time consuming? Maybe for you, but in your case, it's guaranteed to work - take it or leave it.

[Galeria]

How about just make the raid complete when Harry dies? Problem solved.

This.

Finishing a quest is not griefing. Try to report someone for finishing a Shroud you wanted to leave early...

[MartinusWyllt]

There is shroud grief here and it is you, the OP, that wants to dole it out. Several people already offered a reasonable solution: leave before Harry falls. If he's down to 5-10% your leaving isn't going to disrupt their completion...especially since you're a fighter, you're not that important.

(UMD=teleport scrolls, too, by the way, another option)

[SirShen]

Fast way is just Alt-enter then hit X in top right hand corner then log into another toon when u log back in, i do that when harry is at 5% of dieing. I also tell the leader im going todo this so no one waits thinking its a dc.

[Flavilandile]

If anything they need to change it so the quest auto-completes on harry's death. Then there is no "griefing".

This.

If a change needs to be done to Shroud it's that one.

[Zogdor]

Grief in the Shroud? Never!

In my runs, I tell the people who want to leave to do so when Harry is at about 5/10 %. I don't care if they stand back and say "see ya"... that's the point!

I honestly, don't think you should be complaining about this though, the Shroud is a raid just like any other and it's supposed to be completed and you are supposed to go on timer. If you leave before, that is your choice and it's thanks to the community that's been built and "teamwork" that people find it acceptable.

Out of every run, there are maybe 2 or 3 people who want to leave before the end. That makes this type of player the minority. So, why make everyone else wait 2 minutes to be able to do something that was never intended in the first place? Be a team player and do what's best for everyone in the group.

[Paleus]

Putting a two minute timer on the end part is both excessively onerous and unnecessary. While its been said, it bears repeating. The best solution is to just back up and death out at 5% or 10%. People will understand your reasons for doing this, or more likely won't even notice because they've walked away to get a snack. So I wouldn't let your concern about that get in your way of using this easy and acceptable solution to your problem.

The alternative proposed would be forcing everyone else to play the game the way you want them to play it. Even if it is less fun for them to sit around waiting when all 12 are likely to want to finish. And, there would be no easy way around it like there is with /death out. A two minute timer would almost be institutionalized griefing whereas altar clicking is usually a case of unintentional griefing.

[DanteEnFuego]

/Not signed. Your options to escape are above listed as nauseum. I mostly run Hard now, and find no one really leaves early. That said, if someone throws it into voice or chat that they want to leave, why not give them the 20 seconds it takes to punch out, at max.

[Eighnuss]

No timer, /not signed, but people should be considerate of others' goals in a goal oriented game. There is almost always obvious signs that a group isn't gonna give you time to leave. You should have observed these signs and taken initiative and gotten out prematurely. However seeing all the posts here encouraging or commending the 'get out on your time' attitude merits long-winded, insulting walls of text. My condolences to the OP for both the raid AND for the many replies condoning what was done to him.

The devs will not make it easier to 'farm' a quest you are intended to run once every almost 3 days. This timer concept to make sure people can leave premature is absurd. However, people who's arguement is "OMG HOW I WAIT FOR YOU TOO LEEVE MY TIME IS OF VALUE" are dbags. Remember their names and solo heal their next shroud. In part 5 let them know you will be recalling at 25% because you know member X doesn't have the time for you to leave after the fight and wish them the best in their completion. For great justice, tell them that if they do wipe, rest assured you are waiting in Meridia for the next shroud.

People leave shrouds early because they seek SOMETHING. My last TR, I had to run 4 consecutive shrouds to get one supreme shard to craft an additional GS item for the toon, then intended on TRing. 4 runs is 2 days and 18 hours x 4. So instead of doing 4 runs in 10 days and TRing a week and a half later, I ran 4 consecutive shrouds, got what I wanted and TR'd. Why would you seek to prevent people's goals by not giving them the option and time to leave? I hope everyone who has a shroud ended on them prematurely joins your 'loot me a bauble' runs on their melee and loots your bauble and just desserts are served as you wait 7 days for ransack timer to complete YOUR goals, while making furious posts on the forums not quite different than this one.

All these people crying about 'their time' who cannot wait for you to leave shroud are the same ones who blacklist you in raids for rolling loot away fairly instead of selling it to them. If you don't want outside variables affecting your in game time, play alone. If you are incapable of doing quests alone and need other people, why would you then hinder their progress their toward goals after they carried you through a quest your gimp toon couldn't solo?