Never let +4 tomes be bought

[Ungood]

I'm perfectly fine with Tomes being sold in the store. As long as they don't start offering epic items it's not really pay to win. You want an example of a pay2win item mall, take a look at Atlantica Online. When they have a new character class available it's $50+ and only nets you the character.

People complaining have no sense as to how good/fair the mall here is in DDO.

Yah. True Pay to Win is when the Tomes are ONLY available in the store.

[redspecter23]

I'm not a huge fan of tomes in the store, but I've leaned to live with them there. The fact that +4's are earn only right now is the one redeeming justice. If I want the top tier tome, I have to work for it. (Don't get me started on how these are only available on one end game raid 20th list. I don't quite understand that one).

The problem comes if there ever comes a time when +4 tomes mean more to a character than a +0.5 to an ability modifier. +1 DC/AC/attack/damage is great and it's a nice small bonus in the grand scheme of things, but if entire builds depend on having a near unreachable ability score, making +4/+5 stat tomes almost mandatory for certain builds to achieve such a high score to meet a prerequisite for something, then selling these tomes in the store becomes much more "pay to win" than they would be currently.

I'd say keep +3 tomes in the store while +4's can be earned. When we get +5's eventually, and +3's drop in the way that +2's do now, then I can agree with +4's in the store, but not until that point. The store also should NEVER have the highest tomes available.

[Claransa]

personally I don't really care either way. As long as DDO thrives, i.e., makes money in some way, I will be ok


but saying +4 tomes ain't all that... A supreme +4 tome basically gives you around +9-12 more build points from start. For example 47 instead of 36 for twf melee str/con in +3, dex +2, the other three in +1 (and possibly more or less worthless for many builds). pretty big difference if u ask me

I'll go on record as saying +4 supremes should not be sold in the store, and indeed +3 supremes should not be sold now. Simply because supremes don't drop in game and I agree that the store should never sell things that don't drop in game.

I'm not a believer of pay 2 win, meaning if I can buy it in the store and you can get it in game makes no difference in the final outcome. DDO is a player vs. environment MMO. One person "having an advantage" because they throw real life money at it is a fallacy. It has no bearing on anyone else, maybe some people just don't have a much time to play.

You should NOT be required to buy things from the store. i.e. there should be nothing that is only available from the store... such as supreme tomes.

Or supreme tomes should be put in game??

[yawumpus]

Depending on what gear dropped and how willing you where to grind TOD for rings, a +3 tome may or may not grant you +1 DC and +20 hit points (assuming a 50% chance each depending on what gear comes out with the expansion).

That is fairly significant (and will those where even will have that chance if +4 goes on sale before gaining another stat point), but hardly gamebreaking. There are a few builds that benefit, but I don't see "paying to win" as much as "paying dearly for a few more highest power options".

+3 supreme tome buys you:
TWF paladin comes to mind. Then you have to play a paladin. Perfect for the hardcore TRer who absolutely has to have 3 paladin past lives (wouldn't he already have 6 +3 tomes?), but even then you are stuck with a paladin.

Artificer. Probably the build that +3 tomes where designed for. Crank your intelligence, your dexterity (and only up to 16, and let the tome do the rest), and your constitution (if only 12 on a 32 point build). Presumably +7 epic gear will be needed if you went the supreme route to balance the rest of the stats.

Favored Soul (presumably evoker or caster). Not as huge as it looks (unless you were going TWF or something) as the best use of tomes is for tax stats above 14, you will never need to start charisma near that. Melee builds might be tempted to put points into wisdom (and have them to spare), but I suspect it will take many tries to get even the easiest greater command to stick.

Pure builds. Very little. It doesn't hurt, and there is a good chance that many players would grind a long time for that +1 primary stat and +1 con (and possibly on the tax stats as well). Only buy the supreme if you have TP to burn or are going to TR a lot.

[Ungood]

Or supreme tomes should be put in game??

It's just a way to get a package deal to save some cash. You can still get a +3 in all stats, one tome at a time, for free, in the game.

[JOTMON]

Skip +4 tomes in the Store, go straight to +5.

[Gkar]

The main problem with +3 tomes I see is that they are so cheap.
I'm sure that eventually +4 tomes also be in the store, but again, it will be too cheap.

/signed of course, but don't have much hope for it.

$50 for a set of +3 is cheap in a game where $50 gets you access to all content for 5 months? Seems like the in store tomes is a bit of a sucker play they are so expensive and give such a tiny boost over the +2 set that is fairly easy to get by just questing at high level lol.

Skip +4 tomes in the Store, go straight to +5.

Ah, and since +5s aren't raid loot they wouldn't even be breaking their promise lol

$100 for +5 supreme! Let those rich folks with more $ than time subsidize the game



On a more serious note, although it wasn't my original position whent he store came out, I've come to see that stat tomes aren't that big a deal. I could have a full set of +5 tomes on a completionist and still not be better than some of my guildies with a completely untwinked first life character. And I could be running on that naked character and still be better than some random people I've run into in this game loaded up with that +5 tome set. Honestly, its not that big a deal, its a marginal difference.

[Nyxianne]

Never let plus 4 tomes be sold on (in) the ddo store unless you plan on introducing plus 5 tomes in the game. Selling them ruins the game
My previous post about the shroud.

even if plus 5 tomes are introduced into the game please for God sake do not sell plus 4 tomes into the store. Ensue an easy button and the game fails. It is not too late to listen to ME!

Lol - +3 tomes have been sold for a "limited time" off and on for 2 years. Stop being so dramatic, it won't spell DooOOOOOooom. People are still going to wait for the in game version to drop as opposed to buying it off the store.

[biggin]

Sell +6's for all I care. As long as the money goes to new content, classes, etc., what does it matter? I won't ever buy store pots for stats or tomes simply because they really just don't matter. 2-3 DC isn't easy to get, don't get me wrong, but it isn't game breaking for any content currently available either. There aren't any quests that a slight change in tactics wouldn't compensate.

Keep dancin' for dollars Turbine. If players want to floss your g-strings so be it.

[Zorth]

so you all agree that the Shroud is going to be boring to run once we all get all the gear we need. +3 tomes pfffff. Why does the Shroud offer them at 20 if they can be bought, and how many cleansings do we need to make the Shroud obsolete. Answer is about 5 Cleansings to give us enough gear for our builds. Pure and simple. I can buy +3 tomes and I have about 5 Greansteal gear items, (Items and not weapons), to be comfortable with my build. Why do I need to the shroud anymore.

[Zorth]

The ddo store is how they make most of their money to keep this game going. VIP subs can't compare to the mass amount of premium account players that use micro transactions for stuff.

So the game should sell itself out to keep it running?
This the wrong idea and if your idea holds true then this game should be shelved. In other words you are saying that premium players are keeping this game alive for a short period of time and is burning the candle at both ends to ensure maximum profits but when the candle is burnt the game dies.

This is not acceptable,

NO!

[psi0nix]

Not sure how someone else having something will "break the game", I see alot of posts here complaining about how others are able to buy this or that in the store, but really how does it affect you ?

Personally I couldn't care less what others are buying, if it's what they want to do then go for it. I play my way, everyone else can play theirs.

On a side note: in 3 years I have NEVER seen a +3 or +4 tome drop, not once, never, yet I hear about them all the time, I've been in parties where someone has gotten one, but never had one drop in my name.

Same with LDS, in three years I have collected 8, yep, just 8.

I run the appropriate quests regularly, while I admit lately I have just been concentrating on TR'ing I still keep one at lvl20 to run the raids etc, you would think over the span of 3 years that I would see these items at least once, but no.

While I haven't purchased any tomes from the store, I am getting close to considering it, as I have run the quests / raids many many many times, and in my mind I should have those by now.

And to those who claim the game will become "boring", do you only play to "get" things ? or do you play to enjoy the world / story / scenario's ?

One of those has a future the other does not, because eventually you will have all the items from each quests / raid that you want, what then ? quit ?

I play for the fun of being in the D&D realm, it does not matter to me if I have done something a gazillion times and gotten all the loot, I'll still run it, maybe just up the difficulty, an elite shroud will never get "boring".

[Ungood]

Keep dancin' for dollars Turbine. If players want to floss your g-strings so be it.

Everyone that has bills to pay is dancing for dollars, just a matter of who you are dancing for.

As far as this goes. I don't get the fuss with tomes. I pulled a +4 in 3rd ToD run, then got nothing on my 20. I bought +3's for my principal stats, IE: Str. Con. Int. They just allow me to have a little less in those stats (IE: raise my cha, dex, and wisdom) and still be equal to what I would have been with the +2's.

Nothing big really. But I will say this, now that tomes carry over, I was willing to buy them. Before that point, I was not.

[teh_meh]

There is nothing in DDO worth grinding for. Eventually they will just sell it in the store or install a welfare altar in The Twelve to give it away.

Once I came to terms with this FACT, I stopped being so angry with the game and started having fun again.

Consider the people who ground out 20+ TR lives and then watched Turbine release the bravery boni program + permanent learning tomes. No wonder some of them of them quit the game.

[KillEveryone]

/not signed

I will buy +4 tomes if they are ever sold in the DDO store.

I will buy +5 tomes if they are ever sold in the DDO store.

I will buy +6 through +10 tomes if they are ever sold in the DDO store.

I have no problems with tomes being sold in the DDO store.

Please ignore the OP.

Please sell any and all tomes in the DDO store.

[Zorth]

/not signed

I will buy +4 tomes if they are ever sold in the DDO store.

I will buy +5 tomes if they are ever sold in the DDO store.

I will buy +6 through +10 tomes if they are ever sold in the DDO store.

I have no problems with tomes being sold in the DDO store.

Please ignore the OP.

Please sell any and all tomes in the DDO store.

+3 tomes in the DDO store was a quick buck for Warner Brothers and in the long run The game should NEVER SELL PLUS 4 or above, My reason is:

I. Right now there are five things going on.
1. When we get 1750 favor the plus 2 tomes are already obsolete. reaching 1750 favor right now has no purpose.
2. Plus 3 tomes bought in the ddo have ruined some some content already. Plus 3 tomes are very, very ,very rare but tha game made them as easy As Loth teleports without error and if we continue then plus 4 tomes are as easy as Lloth casts teleport without error.

3. Is this game making us a bunch of Demi-gods. This will ruin the game.

4. Think before you speak.

5. Think.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I don't like the DDO store...
... but I don't like the Auction House either.

both are pay-to-win, just one pays with real money. And is more blatant about it.

However, the DDO store has kept this game going.
as much as I dislike it, I would dislike not having DDO even more.



Then there is the grind.
Which I have never thought should exist, or reward players who paticipate in it,

"hey let's go beat up Thor another 100 times till every one of us has one of his hammers!"

not very D&D to me.


and I do nt want to feel forced to repeat quests over and over again..
for some vegas stype chance that someday I may.... just may... get some piece of loot that I want..

oh.... wait.... not that I want!
That everyone else says I need!

That they won't let me group with them if I do not have!

"LFM need 100 DC caster!"

Sorry, you didn't spend every waking minute gridning for a +4 tome, your too gimped to run with us.


So.... uhm...
nope.

If they want to sell them in the store one day, it's fine with me.

[biggin]

+3 tomes in the DDO store was a quick buck for Warner Brothers and in the long run The game should NEVER SELL PLUS 4 or above, My reason is:

I. Right now there are five things going on.
1. When we get 1750 favor the plus 2 tomes are already obsolete. reaching 1750 favor right now has no purpose.
2. Plus 3 tomes bought in the ddo have ruined some some content already. Plus 3 tomes are very, very ,very rare but tha game made them as easy As Loth teleports without error and if we continue then plus 4 tomes are as easy as Lloth casts teleport without error.

3. Is this game making us a bunch of Demi-gods. This will ruin the game.

4. Think before you speak.

5. Think.

1. They are only obsolete to people who have eaten a +2 in every stat. That isn't everyone by any stretch.

2. No +3 tomes have ruined any content. They are only rare now because end game is all about TR and going back to 1. If players cap a few toons and keep them on raid timers they will soon have multiple +3's. It may take a bit to get them in the preferred stats, but extremely rare is not the case.

3. No arguement there, but the demi-gods on each server come from people who have spent the time to make them that way, and it's the gear, not the tomes. Strip those players of gear and they are gimpy, bust every +3 and +4 down to a +2 and someone from the outside looking in probably wouldn't even notice. .5-1 DC is nice but not game breaking.

4. Looks like I'm doing the thinking for both of us.

5. Refer to 4.

[~Quilny]

I agree I do not want the +4 tomes to be in ddo store but i disagree with the pay to win sayings. I've seen some people with +3 to all stats and this and that and they still are horrible players. gear and stats do not make players good don't get me wrong it HELPS but it does not make the player.

[Thrudh]

For every +4 tome the OP doesn't buy, I'm going to buy TWO.

Put them in Turbine, and you'll make $100 from me at least...

If 10,000 people are like me, that's a cool $1 million for almost zero work.

Pretty hard to resist, eh Turbine?