Story time...

[Braegan]

Yeah, I think you're a little off base. A lot of negative responses have absolutely nothing to do with the almighty Vet Status (Though that was pretty sweet how he mentioned Xoriat. No one ever does that ). It's getting a little old this whole "Save The Vets" stuff. You guys are getting way too defensive about that.

No the negative responses to this thread are about the following:

1. Some guys from decent guilds had a bad run on a bad day.
2. OP is the ubers
3. This thread and it's intent are pointless

Two instances of the OP allowing people from decent guilds in to his parties and bad things happen doesn't justify a thread. OH THE NOES! THOSE GUILDS ARE FULL OF NUBS! THEIR GOING DOWN HILL! MY GUILDIES NEVER DO THAT STUFF!

Maybe if it was the same guys, sure start a thread, find a guild officer in game. But you seriously think this has any sort of value after actually processing what was said in the original post?

SPOILER: Even good players do stupid things.

You had two bad runs, WELCOME TO MMO's.

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

But I don't recall me spouting any "save the vets," nonsense. I was merely pointing out to those that were describing Werk as being mean and unhelpful to new players is an incorrect arguement. As from his post these were not new players. There are plenty other arguements that can be chosen that would have been more fitting. Read LordArkan posts, he countered the OP with something thoughtworthy.

[FranOhmsford]

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

But I don't recall me spouting any "save the vets," nonsense. I was merely pointing out to those that were describing Werk as being mean and unhelpful to new players is an incorrect arguement. As from his post these were not new players. There are plenty other arguements that can be chosen that would have been more fitting. Read LordArkan posts, he countered the OP with something thoughtworthy.

I'd been playing this game over a year before I felt comfortable running Tempest Spine on any difficulty {took me that long to figure out the map}.

I still don't feel comfortable in Xorian at level in a group.

I still loathe Wiz King with a passion and The Pit for that matter.

VoN III without an AA and a decent trapper worries me every time I run it.

Yet I've run these quests on multiple characters {I've probably run them just as often as someone who farmed each one on his way to 20 then did the same two more times whilst TRing.}.
Well maybe not Wiz King and The Pit - I really loathe those two quests.

New is a relative term AND I've seen plenty of guilds on all servers that would be considered big name guilds recruiting in K-Town and The Harbour - I'm not talking about blind invites here.

I am assuming of course that the OP isn't talking about guilds with 6 players or less.

[Braegan]

I'd been playing this game over a year before I felt comfortable running Tempest Spine on any difficulty {took me that long to figure out the map}.

I still don't feel comfortable in Xorian at level in a group.

I still loathe Wiz King with a passion and The Pit for that matter.

VoN III without an AA and a decent trapper worries me every time I run it.

Yet I've run these quests on multiple characters {I've probably run them just as often as someone who farmed each one on his way to 20 then did the same two more times whilst TRing.}.
Well maybe not Wiz King and The Pit - I really loathe those two quests.

New is a relative term AND I've seen plenty of guilds on all servers that would be considered big name guilds recruiting in K-Town and The Harbour - I'm not talking about blind invites here.

I am assuming of course that the OP isn't talking about guilds with 6 players or less.

You are correct in that New is a relative term. And believe me all those quests you mentioned get easier and more fun once you get to know them, well maybe not the Pit I still hate that one, lol.

But I am willing to bet communication was a big fail there. I would bet cash money that if some folks were running through the pre-quest and rolled a 1 on a sonic blast arrow and got stunned and laid down and said so in party chat or voice that hey they had a bad roll the tone would be completely different. But then again alot of folks just hate communicating in this MMO lately, sad but funny, mostly sad.

[LordArkan]

But then again alot of folks just hate communicating in this MMO lately, sad but funny, mostly sad.

Yeah, that's part of why I quit playing Vindictus.. someone saying or typing a single word during a PUG was a rare exception rather than normal behavior.
Or Guild Wars... where everyone just soloed with henches/heroes and didn't bother grouping for 99% of the game's content, lol.

I'd really hate to see DDO turn into something like that, since D&D has always been a cooperative game.


I disagree on the Pit, though. Once you take the time to learn it and can make the climb yourself, it really isn't a bad quest. PUGging it can be a real crapshoot, though-- it's reputation means you don't really get a lot of takers in the midrange, only people who know it well and people who have never heard of it.

[Braegan]

Yeah, that's part of why I quit playing Vindictus.. someone saying or typing a single word during a PUG was a rare exception rather than normal behavior.
Or Guild Wars... where everyone just soloed with henches/heroes and didn't bother grouping for 99% of the game's content, lol.

I'd really hate to see DDO turn into something like that, since D&D has always been a cooperative game.


I disagree on the Pit, though. Once you take the time to learn it and can make the climb yourself, it really isn't a bad quest. PUGging it can be a real crapshoot, though-- it's reputation means you don't really get a lot of takers in the midrange, only people who know it well and people who have never heard of it.

Communication is huge, even if I am not always on mic I have sound and type. Most times good comminication is what leads to group/raid winning. Most times failure is fostered by poor comminication. And even if the group fails, the fellowship of folks sharing voice chat versus groups that do not takes the sting out of a fail mission and sometimes some lessons are learned.

As far as the Pit, heh. I do like tackling that which was hard for me in the past, but the Pit has been my downfall for a long time. I always fat-finger hops and wind up missing where I need to be.

[Chilldude]

So now I'm in a fight, by myself, with red skull, 2 dead pugs and 2 piking at entrance. I just stopped fighting, died, released, and dropped group.

You died? Stories that extol your greatness should never end in your death. This is how I read your story...

So, I'm super awesomesaucin' it up tearing through content on elite with my almost equally awesome bud. We get bored with how easy it is because we are so super totally awesome. We decided to let some other people revel in our majesty, but not just anyone you know, only the creme de la creme of course. So I'm running background checks on people before I let them join my level 9 quest on elite just to make sure they are awesome enough to be near me, and low and behold... a couple of them die like noobs! I clean up their mess all by myself of course and finish the whole thing solo because I'm, well, you know, super awesome and better than everyone else.

Then I move on to another quest, I throw up a LFM and immediately zone in, invis, and run deep into the dungeon before anyone else joins. Then, completely and solely because of my own actions I die in a DA RED, so I blame everyone else in the world but myself and even feel the need to write a forum post to absolve myself of all blame.

Cool story bro, but... would have been cooler if you hadn't died in the end.

[werk]

Glad I could help facilitate a little discussion while I was gone for the holiday weekend.

Whether I'm a heartless devil kicking puppies or an overconfident narcissistic madman, at least I'm the guy setting up the torches rather than the bumbling drone blindly trying to follow their trail.

We'll be at it again, life after life, after life...

I tried to make the LFMs a little clearer.


See you in game!

[Captain_Wizbang]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something.

I think that explains a lot, no offense.

I've known the op a very long time. He does help people a lot.
He's being modest about his gaming abilities, as I'd put him in the upper tier of gamers on the server.

His frustrations are genuine, and becoming more common place than ever.

If newer players were more honest about their abilities (or lack of) help, advice and support is freely and generously given.

And as the OP and others have pointed out, we used to be able to generally judge someones abilities by the guild they belonged to. Not anymore.

All is not lost though. He's talking about it, and that is the first step in therapy! LOL (sorry werk, I couldn't resist)

Maybe this thread needs a Thelanis Cowbell.

[mobrien316]

I think that explains a lot, no offense.

I've known the op a very long time. He does help people a lot.
He's being modest about his gaming abilities, as I'd put him in the upper tier of gamers on the server.

His frustrations are genuine, and becoming more common place than ever.

If newer players were more honest about their abilities (or lack of) help, advice and support is freely and generously given.

And as the OP and others have pointed out, we used to be able to generally judge someones abilities by the guild they belonged to. Not anymore.

All is not lost though. He's talking about it, and that is the first step in therapy! LOL (sorry werk, I couldn't resist)

Maybe this thread needs a Thelanis Cowbell.

So I should have read the following post and assumed the poster was a helpful guy?

So Alter and I are lvl 10, banging out level 8 quests on elite. I'm on a pally, racking up healing amp past lives.

I decide to put up an LFM, and as usual try to make it as unappealing as possible.
"IP - TR-elite-xp-BB grind - bring pots and running shoes" and list what quests we will be doing, setting the LFM to the current quest.

There are no healers and you should be able to tell by the tone that there will be no hand holding. ...or so I thought.


Xorian Cipher.
4 pugs join...and die in the entry quest.
Immediately, like they didn't get past the first group of drow and skellies

...while I killed everything and completed the quest.


These are not nobodies. I only accept people from reputable guilds. These are not fresh off the turnip truck newbs or folks from the guilds that throw invites as people come to the harbor...these should be experienced players, or at least their uniforms say that they are.


Whatever, must be bad luck...I boot everyone when they recall and proceed to complete XC elite with just myself and Alter. I leave the LFM up and have 2 people join...who after about 5 mins of standing around simply drop group without saying anything.

Sigh.


VoN 1
As soon as I change the LFM a flood of people start hitting it. I accept 4 more people and start soloing the quest while they buff, etc.

I explain in party chat that I am invisible and running, so there will only be two troll fights and the arena fight. A couple decide that they will stay at entrance, cool, whatever you are able to do.

I get into the last fight with a rogue that clearly is unable to heal himself. I ask if he read the LFM and he says that, oops he feels like a newb. Correct.

I waste the first two waves of mobs from their pens, and while fighting the final mixed wave I see the dungeon alert skull pop up, green -> yellow/orange -> red, then ding as one of the pugs dies. Dead pug says, they harried me.
DUH! What did you think would happen if you ran past 50 live mobs completely visible?

So now I'm in a fight, by myself, with red skull, 2 dead pugs and 2 piking at entrance. I just stopped fighting, died, released, and dropped group.

I'm going to go work out and get something to eat.

Xoriat, why have you forsaken me?

Once again, I must be misunderstanding something if other people are reading that post and thinking, “Gee, what a helpful guy that poster is! Look how he tried to help those other players!”

Maybe the poster is normally a very helpful guy; I’ll take your word for it on that. But in this particular post he certainly did not display his “helpful” traits to any degree. In this post he came across as someone who was completely full of himself and his abilities and as someone who was scornful and disdainful of other players who happened to die in a quest he was zerging.

[werk]

This really wasn't meant to be a thread about me, but I am in fact a helpful guy, but only to people that ask for help or at least don't simply expect it like some sort of entitlement.

My LFMs are crafted in a way, and applicants are superficially screened, so that I shouldn't be forced to explain, teach, assist, nor carry others through quests. I avoid genuinely new players because we're playing different games at this stage.

If you like doing that in every quest, with every person you play DDO with, that is fabulous, but after 6+ years it gets rather tiring in my opinion. I'm not here to hold class or preach like it's church, I'm here to accomplish goals and if I can help others to do the same along the way, so much the better.

I try to grab like-minded folks and we can run up some quick and easy xp.

For instance, If my super friendly LFM says we're doing wiz king (for example) with the usual IP BYOH TR XP blah blah blah, I expect folks to come inside and solo a tower, or if they can't, I expect them to communicate otherwise.
What I don't want folks to do is come inside, get hurt feelings because no one is holding their hand, then immediately die (or /death) and recall while sending profane tells to yours truly. I think that contributes to an overall negative experience for all parties concerned.

Again, you can do that, if that's what you are into...


Moral of the thread was read LFMs, follow directions, and tell an adult if you are unable to do those things.

[Chai]

These are not nobodies. I only accept people from reputable guilds. These are not fresh off the turnip truck newbs or folks from the guilds that throw invites as people come to the harbor...these should be experienced players, or at least their uniforms say that they are.

I dont put any stock in the "reputable guilds" myth. Tried that once, ended up a horrible mess similar to what you wrote about.

Why?

Reputable guild folks =/= pack of zergers who are only interested in getting from point A to point B on the XP ladder as quickly as possible. Most of the best geared people who are very good at completing the toughest raids in the game are not always the best quest zergers and XP/min farmers.

Farming raids with high completion percentages and ability to farm Xp/min in easy quests are two totally different aspects, and I have often found that people who are good at one suck eggs at the other. The common myth is that doing one well should indicate they can do the other well, which is false.

For instance, I have seen people show up to CR21-25 challenges (where zergers usually shine) in epic red scale and eSOS, eChrono gear etc, have a guild tag that is common with pioneering end game content, and fail miserably at zerging, self sufficiency, and staying alive.

Group leader looks at their LFM join list, recognizes folks from the Guild: Ubertastic_Raid_Completion_Masters_Of_The_Known_Mu ltiverse, invites them, and expects them to be on the ball plowing elite quests for Xp/min, hilarity ensues. I was surprised about it on the first, second, and third occurrence, however, it doesnt even surprise me anymore. Completing eLOB with 11 other ubergeared metagamers, and soloing a tower in elite wiz king, are two completely different things. You dont need invis clickies to beat vellah 60+ times, but they sure do come in handy when running to the end fight of VON1 to help you out without creating insane DA, then buying the farm, cows and all.

[mobrien316]

Moral of the thread was read LFMs, follow directions, and tell an adult if you are unable to do those things.

I can certainly agree with those sentiments.

[LordArkan]

We'll be at it again, life after life, after life...

I tried to make the LFMs a little clearer.

Saw that while I was on Bayerische earlier... made me wish I had a 12-14 to join ya.

[backandforth]

it's reputation means you don't really get a lot of takers in the midrange, only people who know it well and people who have never heard of it.

Haha that was funny !

[Inferno346]

Time for a fun, out-of-context screenshot:

[al73r]

Time for a fun, out-of-context screenshot:

I find it flattering when people go out of their way to catch me on a death. It happens to us all. I also tried to make up for the 10% by doing traps but the quest completed before I was able to acquire the needed quota.We had 6 needed 3 more.

I tried to make up for my death (from a trap due to hitting a ceiling while jumping over it). If this is some kind of prod at me then poke all day as I know I was doing right by trying to make up for the loss of xp. Also $h!t happens.

[adam1oftheround]

Thanks for sharing. I have seen things go that way, and I think you did the right thing to drop group. I try to screen shot before dropping group, so I can update my special friends list later. The real friends list fills too fast so I keep a word document up for this purpose. Better luck next time.

[Inferno346]

I find it flattering when people go out of their way to catch me on a death. It happens to us all. I also tried to make up for the 10% by doing traps but the quest completed before I was able to acquire the needed quota.We had 6 needed 3 more.

I tried to make up for my death (from a trap due to hitting a ceiling while jumping over it). If this is some kind of prod at me then poke all day as I know I was doing right by trying to make up for the loss of xp. Also $h!t happens.

Twas a joke.

[LawstCawz]

Tried STRONGS ONLY?

[al73r]

Twas a joke.

oh I know positive rep was given