150+ HP Wizard at level 5? I haz one!!!

[Enoach]

At level 5 my Wizard's base HP with equipment was 122 HP:

http://i.imgur.com/jd2cK.jpg

With a yugo pot I had 147 HP:

http://i.imgur.com/rylz6.jpg

^^ I was daft enough to completely miss the +2 con shrine at the ship though which would have given 152 HP My group was running elite tangleroot gorge at the time and we got party wiped by one of the red names in the last part, so I got myself buffed up for the retry.

It was my fault we wiped though, I got killed first by a normal big mob so the group had no CC at the boss mobs. But we succeeded the second time

And I only just noticed my terrible fortification with the essence of cunning oops. At least I could CC everything though and kill casters fast with niacs cold ray so no one was taking any damage.

I had an empty belt slot all the way up to level 11 though. Where can I get a (non crafted) ML4 Moderate fort belt from?



Multiple hits from a large mob that I leeroyed into

It wasnt a '1 hit kill'. Nothing does 1 hit kills to me.

I survive elite lightning bolts, spells, traps, and single damage ticks, just not leeroying at level 5. Then the rest of the party dropped like flies to a boss mob doe to having no more webs.

Im not going PM anymore this life either, I have 85% chance to activate serious wands at level 13 and am going to stick to Archmage, but Necromancy primary and conjuration secondary for these epic webs and instakill CCs.

Oh, and I'd have more HP if I was a PM. I was once told by a 115 HP level 12 wizzie that he had so much lower HP than me because he was an archmage and I was a PM, but now I have 300 HP at level 12 and I'm an Archmage too? Lol.

So first - nice job on getting 150+ hp at level 5

Next, I think the lost message of this post is even with lots of HP for your level using the wrong approach will still get you soul stoned.

There are many techniques to avoid/reduce damage.

Critical melee hits by enemy monsters are rare and are closer to 1/30 (Natural 20 with confirmation) so at this level even 25% fortification makes sense. If 25% seems low to you, than consider why so many want blur which is only a 20% miss chance.

Next is learning how to avoid line of sight from casters. Against Lightning the worst place to stand is out in the open with a wall behind you. Keeping it so that the caster cannot get a bead on you. Next is to get the best reflex save you can get. For a wizard that has dumped Dexterity that could be solved using Insightful reflexes.

Next consider the HP of an Ungeared character at Level 5

w/ Heroic Durability (20 HP)

d4 - 50 (14 Con) -- 55 (16 Con) -- 60 (18 Con)
d6 - 60 (14 Con) -- 65 (16 Con) -- 70 (18 Con)
d8 - 70 (14 Con) -- 75 (16 Con) -- 80 (18 Con)
d10 - 80 (14 Con) -- 85 (16 Con) -- 90 (18 Con)
d12 - 90 (14 Con) -- 95 (16 Con) -- 100 (18 Con)

Now Starting Constitution will vary with build and the addition of Toughness or Barbarian Past Life Feat will also change the HP. As for HP, a False life Item will generally be more HP than a +2 Constitution item at level 5. I would recommend against using Yugo pots at any level below 15 mainly due to their cost vs benefit. Also not everyone has access to ML0 Greater False Life or ML0 +5/+6 Constitution Items.

When weighing whither or not someone's HP are too low, first remove from the equation items that would be highly unlikely for them to have at that level/life. Consider if they are 28 or 36 point builds.

So of your 122 HP 50%+ came from other than your base (7 Toughness + 15 Con Item/Might of Abashi set + 30 GFL + 10 Tier 1 Racial Toughness)

[DDOisFree]

1.The difference between 6 starting con and 14 starting con at level 5 is 20 hp. That is next to nothing.
2.At low levels AC is a much more important focus than anything else for survivability.
3.At low levels when playing an arcane (or melee really) things die very fast even on elite
4.At low levels spike damage is not high at all so high HP is not needed.
5.The best way to prevent spike damage is to get 100% fort-or at least not be at 0% fort....or -50% fort.
6.Often as an arcane and TR, you will have highest HP-you can dump cha or int, dex/str/wis and just pump casting stat/con. Few melees have that luxury. Also yugo pot -5% attackspeed doesn't matter.
7. Kite stuff, dodge stuff, have good saves, AC, use AOEs...very little reason to die at low levels.


Honestly, just stop. The weird mixture of bragging without real cause (who cares if you have above average but not spectacular hp?), spreading bad advice/example (NO ONE uses a fort item before minos? mobs hitting you for ONE HUNDRED DAMAGE in tangleroot ) and nubbery (/koboldvoice dying in tangleroot and bragging in same post, really? /stopkoboldvoice) is probably why you are sensing some agression towards you in this thread.

I didnt get hit for 100 in tangleroot, I got ganked by a large mob.

Kobold Shamans with double hit lightning bolt, traps, and several red names with deal close to, it not over 100 damage on level 5 quests on elite difficulty.

No one uses a heavy fort item before minos is what I meant to say.

And time and time again, I have to repeat, AC is going to do nothing for you against casters and elite red names, but ofc people here just cant read and only assume whatever they want to believe.

When weighing whither or not someone's HP are too low

I dont care what people (not you but others on this forum) want to think, the following examples of HP are far too low for elite and not welcome in my groups:

28 HP at level 4 on a sorc / wiz.
50 HP at level 7 on a rogue.
90 HP at level 10 on an arti
120 HP at level 15 on a sorc / wiz.

If people are new to the game, play on normal difficulty not elite. Dont make a gimp character and join peoples Elite groups, claiming while you are in them that you dont more HP because you will never get hit.

[OsOscarius]

No one uses a heavy fort item before minos is what I meant to say.

I have a single character with minos (got Necro IV a few months ago, I hate the dull rare farming). Most of my characters actually get a certain heavy fort necklace at 9, and there is little reason to not get that one. (~20-30 minute single run)

And time and time again, I have to repeat, AC is going to do nothing for you against casters and elite red names, but ofc people here just cant read and only assume whatever they want to believe.

No, but casters usually die in moments and spells can in most cases be evaded (the WASD way). Red names are in most cases single mobs that are easily avoided.
Why would you ever get pummeled by a single mob if you can't survive it?

However, AC cuts down normal mob damage to close to nothing (and crits too. ) which means that instead of focusing on the dozen warriors behind you you can focus on the boss or the mages.

I do agree that high hp is good and that players should put some focus on it, I doubt anyone on the forums (a few exceptions of course) would say otherwise.

[SoloPhalanx]

I didnt get hit for 100 in tangleroot, I got ganked by a large mob.

Kobold Shamans with double hit lightning bolt, traps, and several red names with deal close to, it not over 100 damage on level 5 quests on elite difficulty.

No one uses a heavy fort item before minos is what I meant to say.

We tried, but it just seems you're beyond saving. It's nice to see how you're trying to take back something you said or play it as something else though!

Also, refer to the necklace post above. And that still doesn't explain why you think mod fort is useless.

I dont care what people (not you but others on this forum) want to think, the following examples of HP are far too low for elite and not welcome in my groups:

28 HP at level 4 on a sorc / wiz.
50 HP at level 7 on a rogue.
90 HP at level 10 on an arti
120 HP at level 15 on a sorc / wiz.

These examples are silly, and relate to <1% of the population.

About your specific case, let me tell ya, I'd rather have a 90 hp @ lvl 5 Wizard with 75% fort, than a 150 (should be 130 here due to the yugo pot anyhow) with 0% fort, and I'm pretty sure most (if not all) here would agree with me.

You seem to think you're marvelous. Yet you still claim damage from lightning bolts from kobold shamans, even when it's clear to everyone you have access to 30 resists from ship, or that red names are a problem.

Let me ask you, are you one of those guys who hit 20 and rapidly TR'ed and now thinks he's a big shot?

[Delt]

Dont make a gimp character and join peoples Elite groups, claiming while you are in them that you dont more HP because you will never get hit.

If you are dying in elite Tangleroot in a group...hell, or solo, you really shouldn't be casting the gimp stone. Just saying.

[Gizeh]

This is the lowest ML heavy fort item in the game, and its level 9 req:

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Nightforge_Gorget

[...]

A Heavy fortification shard via crafting requires 100 elemental crafting which I simply will never have because I dont do crafting.

Light and Moderate fort are both a waste of an equipment slot, they dont always work and you can still take full damage from a sneak attack ...

[...]

As far as I know the lowest ML heavy fort item in the game is a crafted heavy fortification item with masterful craftsmanship (ml 7). The fact that you don't want to level your crafting skills doesn't mean this item doesn't exist. And yes, I know it's a long grind to get your crafting levels up that far.

While I agree that light fortification is very unreliable, I find moderate fortification items to be quite useful for the levels "before heavy fort".

[twigzz]

Hovever feel free to show me your 6 con drow surviving elites with BB with a fortification item, I'm dying to see how effective it is at keeping you alive better than me

So you want me to make a gimp toon to see how it compares to your gimp toon?

[fco-karatekid]

So youre embarased for me when I wasnt even killed by sneak damage, but your telling me to use fortification items at level 5 ... really?

So fortification works on lightning bolts now, thats great to hear.

no, but medium fort plus +20 lightning pots and lightning protect pots do. just soloed shadow knights tonight to see if this new character could survive (one level under, nothing impressive).

The bard farmed the first two invisible stalkers about 10 times (1k exp for about 45 secs is good xp farming). med fort kept me alive.

Those stupid wraiths throw tons of lightning and hurt at level 7 - but I didn't die.

Now if I had some long-lasting level drain prot...

At low levels, I'd rather my measly 153hp +85% fort +30 lightning protect than 250HP without the other protection.

[fco-karatekid]

You ***** dont know what you're talking about! Trying to give "good" advice when we all know it's bs.

I also didn't get the memo that fort only starts working at lvl11 with minos.

Me, neither - need to get the Orien mail checked, Been running light fort for 4 and part of 5, switched to med mid-level 5 (low ml outfit i think it was).

[fco-karatekid]

...I was also completely unaware that fortification works on 100+ spell damage...

Phiarlan Mirror cloak works wonders, tho.

30 Resist and Prot pots prior to the fight with the red named would further mitigate, protection from evil if they're slinging magic missiles.

NOT taking sides or trolling, just offering alternatives to those 90HP readers to whom you are referring.

[Delt]

NOT taking sides or trolling, just offering alternatives to those 90HP readers to whom you are referring.

It's funny, I took my newest TR gimp up to 5 the other night, made sure to not grab toughness and was sitting at 88hp. No resists, no buffs of any kind besides haste pots (oh ya, and a few invis pots for a little xp farming). Knocked out an easy & quick solo elite completion...which is odd, because without 150+ hp, I should have been absolutely ruined in such a *difficult* quest chain...

To be fair though...I was wearing an ML2 mod fort robe...

[wax_on_wax_off]

amateur tip: not when you're level 5.

(seriously, just use AC; throw a shield spell and a mage armor, drink barkskin and shield of faith pots (or have the spells cast), keep haste active, cast cat's grace. you'd be surprised how effective mid-20s AC is even on elite at those levels...)

Nope, fortification all the way, much easier than AC (on casters anyway).

Moderate fortification+Large Guild Augment of Shielding (+20%) =95% fortification. That means you're getting crit'd ~1/400 hits which is much better than 1/20. Throw on Stalwart Trinket for 105% (probably immune to SA too with this).

I run that (replaced by a heavy fortification ring at level 7) along with a lifeshield of invulnerability on my armour and I have to try very, very hard to die. This tides me over until I get named armour at level 10-14 (depending on class).

Other important gear to survive Tangleroot elite (and other "dangerous" quests) include +6 enhancement vs enchantment accessory (I like my LGA Bracers with this), 30 resist electricity shrine (this is the only one our guild has) and ... yeah, that's all that I can think of.

HP at levels 1-10 is overrated, toughness really isn't needed. Mind you, this is from my perspective, I don't invest anything into HP but still end up with more than the casual pugger. As long as you get the basics right you should be golden, if you don't have a guild ship/guild augments etc then maybe grab toughness at 3 but any decently twinked toon should be able to skip it until later.

That said I am looking forward to seeing how much HP I have at level 3 when I take barb PL next life ...

[MRMechMan]

Most mobs do not have a 20/x2 crit range.

19-20/x2
20/x3 are pretty common

20/x4 as well (heavy pick dwarves). I don't recall any having 19-20/x3-but it is certainly possible.

I wouldn't be suprised if some mobs had the IC feat, either.

[Maegin]

Hi Welcome

[Sirgleno]

Heavy fort @ level 5 (4 if you have a spare Cannith Mark):

Moderate fort item: ML 5 (3 w/ masterful craftsmanship)
Crystal Cove trinket (plus 10 hp)
Medium or better armor (robe) or shield (small mithral ftw) with guild gem

Equals 100% fort

I do it on all my lives till L11 when I can put on my Min 2 helm

Amateur tips ftl

[Faent]

Heavy fort @ level 5 (4 if you have a spare Cannith Mark):

Moderate fort item: ML 5 (3 w/ masterful craftsmanship)
Crystal Cove trinket (plus 10 hp)
Medium or better armor (robe) or shield (small mithral ftw) with guild gem

Equals 100% fort

I do it on all my lives till L11 when I can put on my Min 2 helm

Amateur tips ftl

I thought the OP said nobody paid attention to Heavy Fort before Minos? Are you calling him a liar!? I mean, when you can have it at level 3, why wouldn't just just wait until level 11? Silly you...

[t0r012]

Phiarlan Mirror cloak works wonders, tho.

30 Resist and Prot pots prior to the fight with the red named would further mitigate, protection from evil if they're slinging magic missiles.

NOT taking sides or trolling, just offering alternatives to those 90HP readers to whom you are referring.

1. mirror cloak only provides SR which does not work against damage spells.
2. protection from evil stops mental control and compulsion only , and only from evil mobs. It will do nothing to stop magic missiles.

[Sirgleno]

Yes

And, wise forum goers, how do you get to 100% at L3?

[Faent]

Yes. And, wise forum goers, how do you get to 100% at L3?

Answered above? Was that sarcasm?

[Micki]

Fort comes at level 11 with Minos Legens. Pretty much no one uses a fort item before then.

My monk has had heavy fort since lvl 8 (heavy fort robe/ outfit ML8). My sorc got 100% fort at lvl 9 (mod fort belt + WF racial fort).