Posting this for my own reference but if you find it useful, enjoy!
Ezekiel Holyblade of Cannith
Defender of Siberys Build
Solo or Tank role in group
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Ezekiel Holyblade Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male (20 Paladin) Hit Points: 362 Spell Points: 407 BAB: 20\20\25\30\30 Fortitude: 24 Reflex: 16 Will: 18 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 16 23 24 Dexterity 10 12 12 Constitution 14 16 16 Intelligence 10 12 12 Wisdom 14 16 16 Charisma 14 16 20 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Balance 2 12 12 Bluff 2 5 5 Concentration 2 3 6 Diplomacy 2 5 5 Disable Device n/a n/a n/a Haggle 2 5 5 Heal 2 3 3 Hide 0 1 1 Intimidate 6 28 28 Jump 3 14 14 Listen 2 3 3 Move Silently 0 1 1 Open Lock n/a n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a n/a Repair 0 1 1 Search 0 1 1 Spot 2 3 3 Swim 3 7 7 Tumble n/a n/a n/a Use Magic Device 4 16 16 Level 1 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Intimidate (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+2) Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL) Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General) Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I Level 2 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I Level 3 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I Level 4 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead Spell (1): Bless Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds Spell (1): Divine Favor Spell (1): Lesser Restoration Spell (1): Lionheart Spell (1): Protection From Evil Spell (1): Resistance Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest Spell (1): Virtue Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I Level 5 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II Level 6 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I Level 7 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II Level 8 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (2): Angelskin Spell (2): Bull's Strength Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom Spell (2): Remove Paralysis Spell (2): Resist Energy Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II Level 9 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty Level 10 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III Level 11 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds Spell (3): Dispel Magic Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil Spell (3): Prayer Spell (3): Remove Blindness Spell (3): Remove Curse Enhancement: Human Versatility I Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III Level 12 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Level 13 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I Level 14 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Spell (4): Break Enchantment Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds Spell (4): Death Ward Spell (4): Holy Sword Spell (4): Neutralize Poison Spell (4): Restoration Spell (4): Stalwart Pact Spell (4): Zeal Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I Level 15 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV Level 16 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV Level 17 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 18 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III Level 19 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 20 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+1.5) Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar III
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05-23-2012, 12:54 PM #1Community Member
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Pure Paladin Defender of Siberys Build
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05-23-2012, 04:30 PM #2Community Member
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Hey Lead-Arm,
I've been playing and playtesting Paladins for a long time now, and have a few tips for you to consider:
Starting stats:
I recommend dropping wisdom to 8. Your ability to cast spells is based on your modified wisdom score, which is your base score + tomes + items, etc. I REALLY wish that the developers would mention this in the character creation screen when someone goes to build a Paladin, because it is misleading and a build mistake to put so many, or any points really into wisdom on a Paladin. So you can cast 4th level Paladin spells with an 8 base wisdom +2 tome + 6 item = 16, and you only need a 14 to cast 4th level spells. This would allow you to increase your starting charisma to 16 instead of 14 which will improve your LoH, increase your chance to hit of your smites, and give you access to a higher tier of divine might for an extra +2 to damage on every hit, before crits. I'd also recommend spending the 2 remaining points on intelligence to 12 so that with a +1 or +2 tome you can qualify for the combat expertise feat.
Feats:
You're likely going to have to-hit problems the 1st few levels because of power attack and tower shield, both of which give penalties to hit. Generally, I like picking up power attack up at 3rd or 6th level. As for the tower shield feat, you can get away with dropping this feat because once you get to higher levels and your UMD is high enough you can use master's touch scrolls (which you can buy in the portable hole) to give yourself proficiency in tower shield. It's a little annoying to have to recast it every time you rest, but it does save you a feat. You could pick up combat expertise, or extend or improved shield bashing instead. Just a thought.
Enhancements:
Paladin Charisma II and III and Energy of the Templar II & III, are not worth the AP investement. For spell points, you can start out by getting a SP trinket item, and eventually craft yourself a spell point greensteel item. Instead, I highly recommend to pick up divine might II or III. This is your #1 best DPS enhancement that a Paladin gets. It is a pain to cast it over and over, and lots of people on the forums have pleaded with the developers to improve the game play of this enhancement, but it is still very worth using. I also recommend getting extra smite I & II so you can take Divine Sacrifice I (which is awesome) and Exhalted Smite I, because these are very useful to take out dangerous targets such as enemy casters quickly.
Hope that helps & best of luck with it
Last edited by Ralmeth; 05-23-2012 at 04:34 PM.
The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
"From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."
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05-23-2012, 05:40 PM #3Community Member
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Thanks for the advice. I will consider that and possibly make some changes if and when I TR.
Originally Posted by Ralmeth
Hey Lead-Arm,
I've been playing and playtesting Paladins for a long time now, and have a few tips for you to consider:
Starting stats:
I recommend dropping wisdom to 8. Your ability to cast spells is based on your modified wisdom score, which is your base score + tomes + items, etc. I REALLY wish that the developers would mention this in the character creation screen when someone goes to build a Paladin, because it is misleading and a build mistake to put so many, or any points really into wisdom on a Paladin. So you can cast 4th level Paladin spells with an 8 base wisdom +2 tome + 6 item = 16, and you only need a 14 to cast 4th level spells. This would allow you to increase your starting charisma to 16 instead of 14 which will improve your LoH, increase your chance to hit of your smites, and give you access to a higher tier of divine might for an extra +2 to damage on every hit, before crits. I'd also recommend spending the 2 remaining points on intelligence to 12 so that with a +1 or +2 tome you can qualify for the combat expertise feat.
Feats:
You're likely going to have to-hit problems the 1st few levels because of power attack and tower shield, both of which give penalties to hit. Generally, I like picking up power attack up at 3rd or 6th level. As for the tower shield feat, you can get away with dropping this feat because once you get to higher levels and your UMD is high enough you can use master's touch scrolls (which you can buy in the portable hole) to give yourself proficiency in tower shield. It's a little annoying to have to recast it every time you rest, but it does save you a feat. You could pick up combat expertise, or extend or improved shield bashing instead. Just a thought.
Enhancements:
Paladin Charisma II and III and Energy of the Templar II & III, are not worth the AP investement. For spell points, you can start out by getting a SP trinket item, and eventually craft yourself a spell point greensteel item. Instead, I highly recommend to pick up divine might II or III. This is your #1 best DPS enhancement that a Paladin gets. It is a pain to cast it over and over, and lots of people on the forums have pleaded with the developers to improve the game play of this enhancement, but it is still very worth using. I also recommend getting extra smite I & II so you can take Divine Sacrifice I (which is awesome) and Exhalted Smite I, because these are very useful to take out dangerous targets such as enemy casters quickly.
Hope that helps & best of luck with it
I have not had any problems hitting actually but PA can always be turned off if I encounter that. Since I plan to use sword and board most of the time the extra damage comes in handy.
Actually, there are other reasons why you might want a wisdom higher than 8. I wasn't really thinking about the ability to cast spells. It effects skills, saves, and the ability to use runes in dungeons too. I do agree however that Charisma would probably be more useful, especially for intimidate and a lot of Pally abilities and attacks but I thought it would be high enough this way when I rolled him up. I never like to minimize a stat because you never know when the game will change and you might wish you hadn't, LOL! I know there are some changes being tested now in Beta.
I was going more for tank than DPS but it never hurts to have more DPS. Since most of what you are saying is about enhancements, it is a simple matter to reset them and try your ideas out.
This is my first Paladin and I am surprised at how much better they are than how I thought they would be, LOL. I was planning on doing a KoTC Pally like you suggested for DPS. Can you link a build like you suggest for me to study?
Thanks again.
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05-23-2012, 06:15 PM #4Community Member
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+1
I really wish I had seen this post before I TRed into my paladin on my way to completionist. There's a couple questions I had: Originally Posted by Ralmeth
Hey Lead-Arm,
I've been playing and playtesting Paladins for a long time now, and have a few tips for you to consider:
Starting stats:
I recommend dropping wisdom to 8. Your ability to cast spells is based on your modified wisdom score, which is your base score + tomes + items, etc. I REALLY wish that the developers would mention this in the character creation screen when someone goes to build a Paladin, because it is misleading and a build mistake to put so many, or any points really into wisdom on a Paladin. So you can cast 4th level Paladin spells with an 8 base wisdom +2 tome + 6 item = 16, and you only need a 14 to cast 4th level spells. This would allow you to increase your starting charisma to 16 instead of 14 which will improve your LoH, increase your chance to hit of your smites, and give you access to a higher tier of divine might for an extra +2 to damage on every hit, before crits. I'd also recommend spending the 2 remaining points on intelligence to 12 so that with a +1 or +2 tome you can qualify for the combat expertise feat.
Feats:
You're likely going to have to-hit problems the 1st few levels because of power attack and tower shield, both of which give penalties to hit. Generally, I like picking up power attack up at 3rd or 6th level. As for the tower shield feat, you can get away with dropping this feat because once you get to higher levels and your UMD is high enough you can use master's touch scrolls (which you can buy in the portable hole) to give yourself proficiency in tower shield. It's a little annoying to have to recast it every time you rest, but it does save you a feat. You could pick up combat expertise, or extend or improved shield bashing instead. Just a thought.
Enhancements:
Paladin Charisma II and III and Energy of the Templar II & III, are not worth the AP investement. For spell points, you can start out by getting a SP trinket item, and eventually craft yourself a spell point greensteel item. Instead, I highly recommend to pick up divine might II or III. This is your #1 best DPS enhancement that a Paladin gets. It is a pain to cast it over and over, and lots of people on the forums have pleaded with the developers to improve the game play of this enhancement, but it is still very worth using. I also recommend getting extra smite I & II so you can take Divine Sacrifice I (which is awesome) and Exhalted Smite I, because these are very useful to take out dangerous targets such as enemy casters quickly.
Hope that helps & best of luck with it
1. Paladin dual wielding: How? I have a 5th life toon and ate a full volume of tomes and I am STILL spread thin on everything else... I didn't put much into Wisdom to start so I am just baffled as to how to achieve that.
2. I want to do decent DPS, but I don't want to THF it because I lose out on some AC from not having a shield, and Paladins to me should always carry shields (just me, I am NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE ELSE. When I build a toon, I picture what they should be in my brain bowl then roll it up. Got me through 4 lives so can't be all bad). I took bastard sword proficiency because I use my time wisely, but now I am wondering if there is another way? I was thinking longswords, since I have an abundance of them, or khopesh, because I hear the kiddies talking about them all the time...
3. My AC - It's terrible. I don't understand why.
4. Armor - I see a lot of paladins wearing robes. I want to wear heavy armor because it looks cool and matches my perm, but if they know something I don't...
I really appreciate any help I can get. I am not above and beyond begging for help even after playing the game for a couple years, and I have been dreading my Paladin life because I know NOTHING about them. If you could look up Llewndyn on Ghallanda and critique/ insult/ squelch me, that would be great, I am open to most things as long as they don't involve a lot of rerolls. I am currently going Hunter of the Dead, then will swap to KotC around 16 or so when I start needing xp :P
Oh, and finally, how do these paladins seem to have 850-1k Hitpoints all the time? I have barb past life feat, but darned if it does anything like that!
Thanks in advance,
LlewndynGhallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
Originally Posted by jandhaer
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05-23-2012, 06:40 PM #5Community Member
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1. its hard to make a twfing pali, but not that bad. start with like 16-17 str, 15 dex, then con than chars, 8's onn the rest Originally Posted by Llewndyn
2. Kopesh is by far the best one handed weapon 17-20 times 3=win
3. dex bonus to armor, pali aura enchanments, prot 5 item, dodge +2 and +3 item, defender pre= ac
4. robes = monk splashes or rogue splashes, or ppl who don't care for ac at all :P
5. defender pre, don't dump con, get as many hp items as u can, gs 45, gfl, toughness, toughness feat+ enchanments, exc con, human human adapabilty. A non defender should have around 500+ hp at 20, a defender should have 700+ , 800 well geared, multi classed with more than one toughness = 1000 hpMost ppl call me Az. Captains crew on G-land.
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05-23-2012, 07:03 PM #6Community Member
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1.) dual wielding on a 36 point build human paladin 15 str, 14 con, 15 dex, 12 int, 8 wis, 16 cha. You lose some CON but gain some DPS. If you have any +3, 4 tomes you can swap some stats around. It really depends on your end game gear, enhancements and playstyle though. TWF pally is more for dps and less for tanking (though I guess if you want to tank you can do that too but you might plan differently). If you want a tank I suggest bastard sword and THF or something else other than TWF khopesh Originally Posted by Llewndyn
2.) If you want to do decent DPS as a S & B the only real option is to go Bastard Sword and the full THF line IMO. This also gives you the option of switching to greataxe or falchion for DPS purposes when you don't feel the need for a shield (if your AC is useless or so high that it doesn't matter). I play a TWF pally who frequently uses a shield for AC purposes when useful and I have khopesh. It really is great damage and can be beneficial however, if this is your preferred method then I would choose bastard sword.
3.) My paladin has like 40 AC running around but in ~6 seconds I can get it up to 60. First I swap from PA to CE (combat expertise 13 int needed to qualify gives 5 AC), second I drink a barkskin pot +3 to +5 whichever I happen to have on hand (usually only +3 because you can't buy +5 except on the AH), Put on my shield +10 AC. 2 from greater parrying insight bonus and 7 because I use a heavy shield and +1 from stone of change ritual, +3 from a +6 dex item (which I unfortunately have had trouble putting in a permanant slot at level 19 so epic augments are unavailible). Also I can swap armor for another +4 AC but that takes longer to do than the other swaps and boosts. I could also hit AC boost (only lasts 20 seconds so rarely gets used).
60-70 AC is still abysmal for end game content but for leveling purposes I've been happy with it. Generally it's enough to stop 80% or more attacks from orthons even on elite amrath quests. It stops devil attacks only 20-30% of the time probably on those same quests so you need to push it to 75+ if you can to be (mostly) safe for elite amrath IME. It could even go higher for a pure paladin using full plate armor. I'm a splashed build using light armor. Glancing blows makes AC a little less useful but I've noticed a major difference between someone with a useful AC and someone without. Don't sacrifice too much for AC though you still have to be able to kill stuff.
Here is what I would do with a traditional paladin as you describe
Gear
+5 mithral full plate (craft mobility and a stone of change ritual here)
+5 mithral tower shield (craft greater parrying stone of change ritual and maybe lifeshield or something else useful)
+5 protection item
+1, +2 dodge items (+3 and +4 if you can slot it but may be difficult to acquire and find a slot for)
temporary boosts
+3 barkskin pots (or higher if you can find them on the AH or get a ranger to cast on you)
Feats
Combat expertise
Dodge (probably not recommended on a paladin but depends on your build)
Enhancements
DoS III
Bulwark something or other
Combine this with a dex mod of +4 at least and you'll have a useful AC at least all the way through the vale (if not all the way to cap).
5.) HP is really more of a gear thing. As long as you are hitting 650+ (not hard as a DOS III) IME you'll be just fine. Whenever I see 800+ I always worry that they've wasted feats on getting more than one toughness feat or that they've put too many build points into constitution. There are some good players who can reach 800+ with a good build and proper gearing but there are also many bad players who get that high with a bad build and utilizing the wrong gear. For example at level 13 I could choose between minos or teraza's sight. There is more to the story (like slotting a wisdom item or heavy fort obviously there are more options with the wisdom item) but when you break it down it's essentially +2 to hit and damage or 20 HP (these two effects you're not likely going to be able to slot anywhere else at that level). IMO the right choice is the +2 damage but many players just want to look good with gobs of HP when they join a party.Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion
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05-24-2012, 09:17 AM #7Community Member
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Whoa...
Thats an awesome response. I got a lot of work to do :P Originally Posted by morticianjohn
I went khopesh (before reading your response) and now feel silly because I didn't keep bastard sword, which I originally took because I had a lot of nice ones laying around. So if you take bastard sword and THF it helps that out? I will note at least this early on when I went from Bastard back to Khopesh my dps went up significantly... well maybe not significantly but noticeably.
I am not sure what I am going for. Paladin seems to require more planning than I am used to... I literally have gotten to my fifth life just winging it, which would explain my WF virtuoso bard and my cleric who had 27 wisdom at cap... I would like to have decent-ish AC but that DOS pre looks like it would slow my movement speed down and I am NOT interested at all in joining a group and shield blocking until I get XP (that is the most boring strategy I have ever seen...) I am willing to give up some tanking ability to do decent DPS, and I am willing to give up a tiny bit of DPS to see a couple of misses every once in a while... I'm fickle like that.
Thanks for all the advice, sorry to Bogart your thread OP, it really wasn't my intention, I just don't understand Paladins at all so wanted to learn a little more and this was the perfect opportunity.Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
Originally Posted by jandhaer
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05-24-2012, 10:49 AM #8Community Member
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Morticaljohn covered a lot of what I was going to say, I do not have a pure Pally but I instead am doing a 18/2 (2 fighter) with THF lines and I took Bastard sword.
because THF does work with Bastard sword and dwarven axes for glancing blows. My paladin is a DoS and can switch it up to either a Falchion for better DPS or keep with the bastard sword/shield for when I need to be in stance and tanking. but still be able to use the THF feats that I took. The other thing you can do is take the dragon marks and use a Chimera Fang.
Yes Rogue or Monk might be better for the evasion, but honestly Paladins are feat starved so the 2 extra feats is nice along with Tower Shield Proficiency.
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05-24-2012, 12:04 PM #9Community Member
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Khopesh works fine if you want to be TWF but it is much more difficult to plan for because you need the dex to qualify for the TWF feats as well as (probably) OTWF so that you will miss less often. Khopesh will be higher DPS (generally speaking) than the Bastard sword unless you have the THF feats. So basically the choice is if you want to be TWF, THF, or S&B. Really just TWF and THF though because either build can pull out a shield when needed. If you plan to be TWF then go khopesh. If you plan to be THF then go Bastard sword. If you're going THF and don't plan to use a shield often then you don't need to waste a feat on exotic weapon prof. Originally Posted by Llewndyn
You don't have to shield block to make using a shield worthwhile. First if the shield grants you a useful AC it is most likely going to be the prefered weapon set for those mobs. Example: In the quest you're working on the average "to hit" bonus amongst the enemies is 40 and you have your Greatsword out with an AC of 45. By putting a +5 tower shield on you get +9 AC so before the enemies could hit on on a roll of 6 or more now they need a roll of 15 or more. In this scenerio you are most likely better off going S & B even though you lose some DPS by doing so.
Another way to make S & B nice even when you're not shield blocking is to have the sheild mastery feat. If you have the feat and are using a tower shield you get 20% less damage.
DoS slows your movement speed but it's not that big of a deal usually IME. Also you get plenty of charges so you can turn it on and off at will. Turn it off while runing and turn it back on when you get to the next encounter.
I also recommend the 2 fighter levels as mubjon says. It will give you tower shield prof and 2 more feats. I think those extra feats are ultra important for a paladin. Pally capstone is nice but I think the two feats are nicer.Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion
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05-24-2012, 01:47 PM #10Community Member
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DoS does slow down your speed but is easily offset with striding items at least as far as I have played mine, which is only up to lvl 8 right now.
THF and Bastard sword work well together for Sword and Board and you have the flexibility of switching to a 2 hander for more dmg when needed.
Combat expertise is good but requires a feat. Defensive fighting works too and it is a free feat.
You don't have to be uber and have max dps, AC, etc. Pally is a pretty strong class even if you just wing it the first time through. Me, I like more AC than DPS as a Tank Pally.
I personally like stronger overall stats than min/max but that is just my own preference. The whole point in playing D&D or DDO is to have fun and forget about the troubles of the real world for a while. If you stress out over maxing everything, are you still having fun? Nothing wrong with that of course and a lot of people like to be the best at whatever they are doing. I like to just play and have fun and role play when I can!
LOL, nevermind me. I am no expert or anything. I am just an old timer who feels like being less than perfect is fun too.
Just sayin
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05-24-2012, 09:15 PM #11Community Member
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oh no you're preaching to the choir :D
I am not going for min/ max at all, i initially wanted to go bastard sword because in my mind paladins use large one handed swords and shields. i figured if i could meld the fantastic advice i have received so far with my own very basic by-the-seat-of-my-pants ideals i would have a fun build.... Originally Posted by Lead-Arm
DoS does slow down your speed but is easily offset with striding items at least as far as I have played mine, which is only up to lvl 8 right now.
THF and Bastard sword work well together for Sword and Board and you have the flexibility of switching to a 2 hander for more dmg when needed.
Combat expertise is good but requires a feat. Defensive fighting works too and it is a free feat.
You don't have to be uber and have max dps, AC, etc. Pally is a pretty strong class even if you just wing it the first time through. Me, I like more AC than DPS as a Tank Pally.
I personally like stronger overall stats than min/max but that is just my own preference. The whole point in playing D&D or DDO is to have fun and forget about the troubles of the real world for a while. If you stress out over maxing everything, are you still having fun? Nothing wrong with that of course and a lot of people like to be the best at whatever they are doing. I like to just play and have fun and role play when I can!
LOL, nevermind me. I am no expert or anything. I am just an old timer who feels like being less than perfect is fun too.
Just sayin
i am going to take all the advice, take my build, and then make a 10 paladin 10 wizard and blame others when i am gimp. thanks all!Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
Originally Posted by jandhaer
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05-25-2012, 08:18 AM #12Hero
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I know it may not be your thing, but here's an 18/2 variant on your build. The only tome in the group that's needed is the Charisma tome if you want DM2 (You do), which you should be able to afford at 20. The splash gives you three feats effectively from the Fighter feats and free Tower Shield Prof. Enhancements are a bit tight, but that's something all Pallys deal with.
Feel free to post feedback.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Ezekiel Holyblade Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male (2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) Hit Points: 372 Spell Points: 230 BAB: 20\20\25\30\30 Fortitude: 25 Reflex: 15 Will: 13 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 16 24 Dexterity 12 14 Constitution 16 18 Intelligence 10 12 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 14 16 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 3 13 Bluff 2 3 Concentration 3 7 Diplomacy 2 3 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 2 3 Heal -1 0 Hide 1 2 Intimidate 4 26 Jump 3 14 Listen -1 0 Move Silently 1 2 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 0 1 Search 0 1 Spot -1 0 Swim 3 7 Tumble 2 3 Use Magic Device 4 14 Level 1 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Intimidate (+2) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+2) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting Level 2 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 3 (Fighter) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery Level 4 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 5 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 6 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting Level 7 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 8 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 9 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Level 10 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 11 (Fighter) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting Level 12 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Level 13 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 14 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 15 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery Level 16 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 17 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 18 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Level 19 (Paladin) Skill: Balance (+0.5) Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+0.5) Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) Level 20 (Paladin) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Intimidate (+1) Skill: Jump (+1.5) Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II Enhancement: Human Versatility I Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
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05-25-2012, 10:05 AM #13Community Member
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I think 14 CON and 16 CHA would be better as that would grant DM III at 20 rather than DM II and it's only a loss of 24 HP which for a DoS is a drop in the bucket.
Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion
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05-25-2012, 10:22 AM #14Hero
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It's really a matter of preference, but getting DM3 would mean giving up ES4 and having one free AP that's not likely to do too much.
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05-25-2012, 11:04 AM #15Community Member
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Smites are almost a waste of time on a paladin. While they do some nice burst damage, you get so few of them it is a drop in the bucket for your overall DPS. DM is a much much better ability to have....slow casting time and all.
Personally, I normally put my Char up to 17 on my builds. It allows me to get to 20 by using a +2 tome and an ability point or a +3 tome and take Divine Might IV. Is it worth an extra bunch of ability points and enhancement points over DM III? Debatable....but the extra DPS is nice.Officer - Eternal Wrath
Burne Level 20 Human Paladin
Sarlona
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05-25-2012, 01:00 PM #16Community Member
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Pretty similar to what I did, save I took Maximize instead of improved shield mastery for the boost to my cure spells. Originally Posted by Tajuh
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05-25-2012, 10:53 PM #17Community Member
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Hey Lead-Arm, Originally Posted by Lead-Arm
It's not such a big deal, but as both feats you selected at 1st level reduce your chance to hit you might get some misses your first few or more levels. Obviously turning power attack off is the thing to do if that happens...Power attack is awesome and I run with it on most of the time for the extra DPS. If you TR at some point you might consider moving feats around a little bit. For example, if I was going human I might go Toughness and Shield Mastery at 1st level for a bonus to HP and your defensive capability, and then pick up power attack at 3rd level once you've acquired more BAB and a better weapon.
Extra wisdom does have some advantages, but IMHO, a higher starting charisma is much more effective. As for something in the game changing to make it more beneficial to start your wisdom higher, I really doubt that the developers will do that. Paladins already have their stats spread so thin, especially on a tank as you really need every stat. If you start wisdom at 8, eat a +2 tome, use a +6 wisdom item and use a +2 wisdom ship buff, that gets you to an 18 wisdom which isn't bad for dumping wisdom. Originally Posted by Lead-Arm
I play a tank too and it's lot of fun when I can tank and go S&B when it matters. However I recommend to be open to the idea that you want some DPS too and more importantly you want to have a an all-out DPS mode that you can switch to when the need arises. For example, sometimes you will go up against a red-named boss mob where you are taking a LOT of incoming damage and you need to kill the boss as quickly as you can, or the boss mob regenerates or heals. At those times you will have a better chance of winning the fight by putting your shield away and going all out DPS. Also, in certain raids, such as the Shroud you will almost assuredly have two dedicated healers spamming heals on you, and the boss mob has a gazillion hit points. In those fights you want to be able to do as much damage as you can. Originally Posted by Lead-Arm
I was going more for tank than DPS but it never hurts to have more DPS. Since most of what you are saying is about enhancements, it is a simple matter to reset them and try your ideas out.
This is my first Paladin and I am surprised at how much better they are than how I thought they would be, LOL. I was planning on doing a KoTC Pally like you suggested for DPS. Can you link a build like you suggest for me to study?
Thanks again.
For a Paladin tank, the easiest DPS mode is simply to use the best two-handed weapon for the mob you're up against and use power attack and all of your Paladin DPS bonuses (i.e. divine might, divine sacrifice, exhalted smite, zeal, divine favor, etc). About half of my weapons are a single handed weapon for when I want to tank and the other half are two-handed for DPS mode.
Also, the DPS enhancements I suggested are for being a Paladin tank. I use divine might 3, exhalted smite I and divine sacrifice I. The difference between a DoS and a KoTC will be that the KoTC won't have lots of enhancements tied up in defensive auras and will use those APs on higher tiers of divine sacrifice and exhalted smite. In any event if you get a chance I recommend trying these out.The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
"From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."
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05-25-2012, 11:03 PM #18Community Member
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Hey Llewndyn, Originally Posted by Llewndyn
First off, thanks for the +1 Secondly, I think a lot of people mistake Paladin tanks as having to only go S&B, maxing out your defenses, and shield blocking all the time. IMHO, that's a mistake (and IS really boring). You can make a good Paladin tank that has a good AC, good defenses, while also having a decent DPS. The issue is that playing and building a Paladin that's tough as nails and also has a decent DPS is that it takes dedication and a proper balance to the build to make it work well. Could you perhaps post a few things about your current character such as what tomes you have, what greensteel or other significant items you have that you would use while leveling up? Also, what race would you prefer to play and what races do you have access to? I'd be glad to help you with a build.
The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
"From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."
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06-03-2012, 07:35 PM #19Community Member
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I know my build is not optimum but that's OK with me. I will probably make some changes when I TR if I do but for right now I am enjoying this build the way it is.
I want to see how well it goes without really using smites or DM or special attacks other than trip and sunder for the most part. I don't like to mash a lot of buttons when I play due to my arthritis which is pretty bad at times.
I strictly solo, at least for now, so i won't be doing any raids. I just wanted survivabilty mostly and to be able to intimidate to keep my hirelings alive if I use any. I figure that Pally might be the easiest class to solo that way to level 20. I have 12 characters right now but have never gotten any to lvl 20, LOL. I play pretty casually most of the time.
Thank you all for the advice, I do appreciate it.
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