14/6 TWF KoTC 28pt feedback

[Leshracc]

So this is a little thing I've been screwing around with. I want to see how viable twf paladins are with a 28pt build. I don't have 32 point builds and I dont really care if my build is up to cookie-cutter standards. Just looking more for feedback or ideas for overcoming the obvious limitations.

Some things I should mention
6 in ranger for the free twf feat lines to free up some stat points and make up for being starved feat-wise
I didnt put anything in about tomes because its a 28 pointer and people may not have funds for it

I dont really think you could do this pure with a 28 point build, but feel free to prove me wrong

Character Generated Using: DDO Character Generator
Direct Link to Build: http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=20201

Paladin 14 / Ranger 6
Female Elf - Lawful Good
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LEVEL 1:
Race Selected: Female Elf
Alignment Selected: Lawful Good
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 14, DEX: 13, CON: 14, WIS: 11, CHA: 14
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (2), Concentration +2 (2), 
Jump +2 (2), Search +4 (4), Spot +4 (4), Tumble +2 (2)
Feats Selected: Toughness, Favored Enemy (Undead)
Enhancements Selected: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I, 
Ranger Favored Damage I, Ranger Favored Defense I
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LEVEL 2:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (2.5), Concentration +1 (3), 
Heal +2 (2), Tumble +0.5 (2.5)
Enhancements Selected: Ranger Sprint Boost I, 
Ranger Tundra Lore I, Ranger Desert Lore I, Ranger Swamp Lore I
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LEVEL 3:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (3), Concentration +1 (4), 
Search +1 (5), Spot +1 (5), Tumble +0.5 (3)
Feats Selected: Dodge
Enhancements Selected: Racial Toughness I, Elven Dexterity I, 
Elven Perception I
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LEVEL 4:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 4)
Abilities Raised: STR: 15
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (3.5), Heal +1 (3), 
Search +1 (6), Spot +1 (6), Tumble +0.5 (3.5)
Enhancements Selected: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I, 
Elven Ranged Attack I
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LEVEL 5:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (4), Concentration +2 (6), 
Jump +1 (3), Tumble +0.5 (4)
Feats Selected: Favored Enemy (Elemental)
Enhancements Selected: Ranger Favored Damage II, 
Elven Perception II, Elven Enchantment Resistance I
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LEVEL 6:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (4.5), Concentration +1 (7), 
Search +1 (7), Spot +1 (7), Tumble +0.5 (4.5)
Feats Selected: Mobility
Enhancements Selected: Racial Toughness II, 
Ranger Desert Lore II
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LEVEL 7:
Class Selected: Paladin (Ranger 6 / Paladin 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (5)
Enhancements Selected: Follower of the Undying Court, 
Paladin Extra Smite Evil I, Paladin Toughness I
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LEVEL 8:
Class Selected: Paladin (Ranger 6 / Paladin 2)
Abilities Raised: CHA: 15
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (5)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Charisma I, Paladin Devotion I, 
Improved Heal I
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LEVEL 9:
Class Selected: Paladin (Ranger 6 / Paladin 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (5.5)
Feats Selected: Spring Attack
Enhancements Selected: Ranger Tempest I
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LEVEL 10:
Class Selected: Paladin (Ranger 6 / Paladin 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (6)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Energy of the Templar I, 
Paladin Extra Smite Evil II, Paladin Courage of Good I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 11:
Class Selected: Paladin (Ranger 6 / Paladin 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (5.5)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I, 
Paladin Extra Turning I, Paladin Toughness II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 12:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 6 / Ranger 6)
Abilities Raised: CHA: 17
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (6)
Feats Selected: Force of Personality
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Divine Might I, 
Paladin Exalted Smite I, Paladin Divine Sacrifice I, 
Paladin Divine Light I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 13:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 7 / Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (6.5)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 14:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 8 / Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +0.5 (7)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II, 
Paladin Devotion II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 15:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 9 / Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (6.5)
Feats Selected: Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Devotion III, 
Paladin Extra Remove Disease I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 16:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 10 / Ranger 6)
Abilities Raised: STR: 16
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (7)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Divine Might II, 
Paladin Energy of the Templar II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 17:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 11 / Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +1 (8)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Courage of Good II, 
Paladin Extra Turning II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 18:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 12 / Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (7.5)
Feats Selected: Improved Critical (Slashing)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II, 
Paladin Divine Light II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 19:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 13 / Ranger 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Tumble +0.5 (8)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 20:
Class Selected: Paladin (Paladin 14 / Ranger 6)
Abilities Raised: STR: 17
Skills Ranks Raised: Heal +1 (4)
Enhancements Selected: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II, 
Paladin Exalted Smite II, Improved Heal II
Stats at End of Level 20:
HP:310 SP:260 AC:14 FORT:20 REFL:15 WILL:13 BAB:+20/+20/+25/+30
STR:17(+3) DEX:14(+2) CON:14(+2) INT:8(-1) WIS:11(0) CHA:17(+3)
Balance:9, Bluff:3, Concentration:10, Diplomacy:3, 
Disable Device: n/a, Haggle:3, Heal:6, Hide:2, Intimidate:3, 
Jump:6, Listen:2, Move Silently:2, Open Lock: n/a, 
Perform: n/a, Repair:-1, Search:10, Spot:9, Swim:3, 
Tumble:10, UMD: n/a

Nothing except Tempest and KoTC PrE requirements are set in stone with enhancements. been screwing around with different things to see what fits.

[unbongwah]

Issues I see:

• Your DEX is too low to take GTWF; that will hurt your DPS.
• Your STR is low for a melee char; that will hurt your DPS & to-hit.
• No Power Atk, again hurting your DPS; while FoP & OTWF are a waste on such a feat-starved build.
• You wasted build pts on WIS and then waste lvl-ups on CHA to get DM III. You also arguably wasted build pts by putting 10 into CON on a build for which pts are at a premium.
• Tempest I + Zeal (lvl 4 pally spell) used to provide +20% atk speed; unfortunately, both got nerfed way back in U5 and now only provide +10% offhand proc and +10% double-strike. Compared to Tempest III (+20% offhand +5% dbl-strike), I consider it a wash in terms of DPS - but pure-ish rgrs don't care so much about CHA, so that frees up some build pts.
• I can't figure out what you're after with your skills.

I prefer pally 6 splashes, esp. when build pts are scarce, for reasons I discuss here; you get a lot of what's good about pallies w/out needing so many pts of CHA. I'm not a fan of rgr / pally mixes personally, but what about rgr 12 / pally 6 with a splash of rogue or ftr?

[voxson5]

To be fair, tempest 1 gives 70% off hand proc vs the 80% that GTWF would give 90%, w/tempest). Which is pretty reasonable. If the OP wanted a full offensive spec DPS 28 pointer, a dwarf barb is easy enough.

I agree with the stat distribution, and adding in 2 rogue would immensely help what you can do.

Maybe something like:
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 12

14 con is real expensive on a 28pt elf. You have pally toughness and potential to take DoS 2 to make up the 20 hp difference at cap.

12 INT gives you the option for trap skills, but you will need to use rogue/ranger levels to make up the shortfall in paladin skill points (assuming no tomes).

Feats:
Dodge, mobility, spring attack, iCrit: slash, imp. Sunder, toughness, power attack

These give you a nice edge in helping in boss fights, with pally levels giving you self sufficiency.

Ranger 4? gives you diehard, a pre-req feat for DoS 1, can give a little survival & DPS boost. You could also take HotD 2 for neg level immunity, +20% healing amp and permanent ghost touch.

All level ups into STR, max out search, disable, UMD, hide, move silently, rest into concentration. Prioritise search and UMD on pally levels.

Basic DPS gains:
+2 elf racial weapon
+6 favoured enemy
+3 rams might
+3 divine favour
( that's +14 to damage for every swing BEFORE STR/PA/Weapon +/bard song etc)

+ Smites & divine sacrifice

+4 from DM2, only possible with high end tomes with this stat spread

[Olath_Senger]

I love Paladin/Ranger multiclasses . Take a look at the Archangel build linked in my sig. I've changed it a bit, most notably switched over to DoS instead of HotD, but it gives you a basic idea of what to aim for at least. If you don't have Monk unlocked, you can go 14 Paladin or replace it with Rogue.

For your starting stats, there's a couple issues. Strength and Dexterity are both low; you want 15 Dex with a +2 tome (or 16 with a +1) to qualify for Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, which is a must for any TWF build. I recommend dumping Wis. With items or buffs, you'll be able to cast any spell.

Do you have Drow unlocked? If so, I highly recommend going that route. It's vastly superior to Elf for a build like this and arguably, Drow is one of the best races for a TWF Paladin. If you don't have it unlocked, it won't take long. At around level 7 or 8 you should hit 400 favor.

As a Drow, I recommend 16 Strength, 15 Dexterity, 14/15 Charisma and as much as you can put after that into Con. On the Archangel build I mentioned earlier, I had 13 Con and 15 Charisma. Or, if you can only get a +1 Dex tome, go 16 Str/16 Dex/13 Con/14 Cha. Up to you. But still, I highly encourage you to make this a Drow instead.

Your skills are kind of all over the place; I recommend putting max points into UMD right from the get-go. After that, Balance and Jump (only get Jump to 10), a point or two in Tumble, and if you have any left over the choices I'd give you are Spot, Intimidate/Diplomacy (depending if you want to be an off-tank), Concentration, and maybe Search. Heal is useless. For your Paladin levels, keep UMD and Balance maxed out.

One small thing to note; you're a melee build, so put every ability raise into Strength.

Now, onto feats. Drop Favored Enemy: Elemental for Evil Outsider. Drop Force of Personality and get Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Your saves will be more than high enough anyways. Drop Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting and get Power Attack. Believe it or not, but these two feat changes will do wonders to your DPS.

Enhancements. Not gonna go into great detail here because they can easily be swapped out. Personally, I'd drop the Elven enhancements aside from the weapon damage ones. Attack enhancements are debatable. I generally won't take them, but if you're having problems hitting things even with Power Attack off you might want to have them. Drop Improved Heal. For Paladin enhancements, the must-haves are whatever you need to fill your Prestige requirements, Extra Smite Evil, Exalted Smite, Divine Sacrifice, Extra Lay on Hands, Divine Might (only if you can get to the third or fourth tier), and of course, your prestige. I also like the Charisma enhancements, Paladin Devotion, and Extra Turning.

Lastly, a couple tips for playing this sort of a build (or any Paladin, really). Divine Sacrifice is your best friend. Spam it. All the time. Put it on hotbar number 1, slot 1, and button mash 1 on your keyboard. Maybe even slot it to the Right Mouse. I'm dead serious, DS is the best skill you have for trash mobs. Exalted Smite is just as good, but I find it more useful for bosses due to the limited amount of them and the slow recharge rate. If a healer looks at your vitals bar and doesn't see your SP and HP pool going down every couple seconds, you're doing something wrong. Seeing those massive numbers from scoring a critical hit with your Divine Sacrifice or Exalted Smite is one of the most satisfying things I've seen playing this game, despite Paladin DPS not being the greatest.

That's about all I have for you. Have fun!

[Leshracc]

So I moved some stuff around and rebuilt it using your advice. I really like elf over drow for slashing VS piercing as far as your smiting weapon is concerned...never been big on rapiers. yeah stuff is still tight but I picked up GTWF along with tempest, this build also has Zeal (pal14) divine might II, a fair number of smites and divine sacrifice. The +1 dex and +2 Cha tomes are required (but cha not until level 16). Without the Int one you just have the issue of 1 fewer skill point per levelup.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(14 Paladin \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 320
Spell Points: 260 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    20
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         13                    15
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    12
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         5                    12
Diplomacy             4                    13
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                2                     4
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                  2                     9
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search                1                     7
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      4                    15

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV

[unbongwah]

I'm still not wild about this combo, but if your heart's set on it, I would probably take IC Slash at lvl 9 and delay Spring Atk / Tempest I to lvl 15. I suspect +15% crit chance w/scimitars is more DPS than +10% offhand proc, but someone who's better at crunching DPS numbers than me should weigh in.

I think I'm also inclined to start STR 16 / CON 12 on this build. Normally I hate starting below CON 14 on a melee build, but this one is so stat-intensive, esp. for a 28-pter, I'll make an exception. Maybe try squeezing in pally Toughness IV to help make up for it.

I didn't look too closely at enhs, but they could probably use some tweaking.

Finally, you may want to consider splashing some pally earlier on to gain Divine Grace & pally Toughness I sooner which boosts your survivability: e.g., rgr 1-2, pally 1-2, rgr 3-6, pally 7-14. That does mean delaying ITWF (& Manyshot) 2 lvls, but you're probably better off using falchions for the first several lvls anyway.