Improve Weapon Finesse

[ahpook]

There have been some comments in the past that Weapon Finesse needed some love. Some countered that 1 stat for defense and offense would be over powered but that was never agreed upon. If it should ever come to pass that high end AC wasn't as effective (ie. only getting hit on a 20 no longer viable) then I believe that it would be pretty clear that weapon finesse could use some love.

The obvious idea is to make Dex apply to the damage mod for finessable weapons. I would be happy with this choice but I could also be convinced that it could be too much. The other choice is to make Dex count as the modifier for tactical feats like trip and stun. I think both of these should be available, one by improving weapon finesse and the other through a 2nd feat. Since dex cannot be buffed the same way as Str (with all the rage variants) a dex character will still not be as effective DPS even after blowing 2 feats.

So lets add Dex as the modifier to tactical feats to buff Weapon Finesse and add Improved Weapon Finesse to use dex to apply to damage mod for all finessable weapons.

[SableShadow]

Just grant it as an automatic feat at level 1.
Done.

[Bogenbroom]

I think it would be prudent to get a feel for how the AC changes shake out before attacking weapon finesse or any other dex dependencies.

In terms of hindsight, my feeling is that the real mistake was using the str mod for both attack and damage bonus. What would have been better, in my opinion, is to have your attack bonus be your dex mod OR half your str mod and your damage bonus be you str mod OR half your dex mod. Then a feat like weapon finesse (or and similar str feat) could then even those out. Again, though... hindsight.

[ahpook]

Just grant it as an automatic feat at level 1.
Done.

THat doesn't really solve the problem though. Getting a feat back so that you can take another toughness doesn't make dex build viable. Dex builds need to be able to compete better in combat.

I would be happy making all finessable weapons use dex as the to hit stat (if that is greater than str) simply a game rule so that no feat is needed. Then we can make Weapon Finesse grant dex as the Damage and Tactical Feat Bonus stat.

[SableShadow]

THat doesn't really solve the problem though. Getting a feat back so that you can take another toughness doesn't make dex build viable.

Ah, got it: fix weapon finesse for fighters.

Dex builds need to be able to compete better in combat.

The biggest hurdle is feat cost (for everyone except fighters).
Fix that. It's easy.
Work on other suggestions separately.

This is a periodic suggestion; it never gets any dev traction, possibly because people stack too many things into it.
Simplify, get a small gain, worry about the rest later.

That's how the barbies do it; seems to work alright for them. :P