Why a indifference towards player with disability

[morticianjohn]

Allow me to be blunt. You should say you have a hearing disability right after you join the group.

That lets others know immediately that they need to type to you.

Low levels may not be an issue with instructions, but high level quests and raids sometimes require instructions or directions and if you don't say that you can hear the party leader, they may assume you're just not paying attention and kick you.

However in regards to the user in the OP, they were a jerk. It's no loss.

Your best bet to finding a group that will learn to work your disability is to find a good guild that runs a little of everything. This way you don't need to constantly explain any issue and you have players that know how to work with you and you with them.

tl;dr
Pugs suck, find a guild.

I agree with this poster

I also have no issues with people who can't hear. Often if someone is listening to music or has sound off due to family members sleeping or whatever they will announce it as soon as they join a quest. "hey, I'm going to be playing with my sound off so please type anything relevant."

Some group leaders will specify "must be able to hear" in the lfm. I do think that people should take into consideration those who are hearing impaired but unfortunately not all party leaders are kind considerate people.

[chance2000]

On Argonnessen my Guild Circle of Destruction.
I am the guild leader.
I would say 1/2 of us or more have disabilities of some sort or the other.
Me I have Brain Damage.
I do use voice and sound.
I say that the people you dealt with were jerks.
Also tell people in groups no mic/ears and you should not have many issues.
I know a couple of women who play that refuse to use voice for the fact they end up getting picked upon.
People seem to forget we play this game to have fun.
Some have fun picking on the disabled.
Do not let a few run you off.

[rayworks]

Joined a group for harbor elites i was standing in near the quest area and went in quick started fighting quest was about to finish killed mobs healed party members and quest completed when came out of the dungeon i was just about to type that i am deaf handicapped guy i cannot use headset i was just about to type i got kicked out of the group i asked why he kicked me he said he asked something and i did not answered i told him i was about to type that am a deaf handicapped guy cannot use headset he said go find yourself a HANDICAPPED GROUP GL is this how a disabled person being treated been playing for 6 years who uses voice chat in crappy lowbie quests and never had difficulty in playing first time someone said

"find yourself a handicapped group gl"

Am asking why there is indifference towards players with disability

So you're basing an entire universe on one experience? Seems to me you're over-reacting.

[Buggss]

Oooooo tough one.

One person's considerations end where someone else's begin as the old phrase goes. Same as one person's rights end where another person's begin.

I've been in this line of work for a long time and we're looking exactly at the problem of disability discrimination and equality. Biggest minefield after human rights.

I see the annoyance of the OP in being annoyed at being asked to separate themselves from the community:

..."find yourself a handicapped group gl"....

This basically is saying the group leader would rather not have to deal with the added effort (justified or not) in having to type instruction they may have done a million times before but said in a totally unacceptable way. The message is understandable, the words are not.

As the vast majority of players have no sensory disability (an assumption made by my experience since pre-release and I believe a fair one) then most players will assume no significant disability in a group unless someone states one or something makes it obvious during the group's gaming. This is the curse of "normal" and one we won't solve on a gaming forum.

Like I say I've dealt with many many cases of one person's rights against another person's rights where both sides have understandable (although not always moral) reasons for their actions/beliefs. In this case the only course of action I find works is one of openness and honesty right at the outset.

So in the OP's case I think the right/most harmonious course of action (after all it's a game to be enjoyed, right?) would have been:

For the OP to join the group, mentioned immediately that they had a hearing impairment meaning that anything said to them would require a fast tell or message in party chat and if that was too much for the group leader to cope with, (who knows, maybe they had a writing or some other impairment) then they could have asked them to leave straight away (every group leader's prerogative).

Given that the situation was declared and transparent the group knew what it was doing and everything would've been simpler and more enjoyable whether the group stayed together or not. At least everyone would've known where they stood.

Again everything is my opinions formed from my personal, work and gaming experiences as well as dealing with countless similar situations, including no small number of instances within DDO.

Hope anything I've said helps and doesn't offend, I did my best.

[katz]

the group leader did the equivalent of a "left handed compliment". he was rude and insensitive, but followed it up with the polite "good luck". i'd stick him on my special 'friends' list and avoid him in the future.

you should let groups for more complicated quests/raids know when you join that you can't hear them. that does NOT mean you have to tell them you are deaf. you can say you have no sound. your sound isn't working.. any phrase that pleases you. some people will STILL be jerks about it (get your system fixed, get a headset, etc...) you can tell them you are deaf if you want to.

i would actually recommend NOT turning off voice. it seems counter-intuitive... but NO ONE pays attention to that stupid little tiny green speaker icon being missing. if you have voice on, at least you can see names light up green and you can remind them you can't hear them.

where does my experience come from? my husband is hearing impaired. all these things have happened to him. it's hard, but no reason an insensitive jerk or two has to ruin your enjoyment of such a cool game

[Phidius]

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could check a box to use Voice-To-Text software to output the voice channel to the Party tab? In addition, output what you type in the Party tab to the voice channel too.

I'd pay TP for that.

[Buggss]

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could check a box to use Voice-To-Text software to output the voice channel to the Party tab? In addition, output what you type in the Party tab to the voice channel too.

I'd pay TP for that.

It's a nice idea but that kind of software is hard enough with one set of dialects or accents within one country, with all the languages and accents etc etc in DDO it'd be pretty much impossible without slowing everything down to a crawl along with it.

[Impaqt]

Joined a group for harbor elites i was standing in near the quest area and went in quick started fighting quest was about to finish killed mobs healed party members and quest completed when came out of the dungeon i was just about to type that i am deaf handicapped guy i cannot use headset i was just about to type i got kicked out of the group i asked why he kicked me he said he asked something and i did not answered i told him i was about to type that am a deaf handicapped guy cannot use headset he said go find yourself a HANDICAPPED GROUP GL is this how a disabled person being treated been playing for 6 years who uses voice chat in crappy lowbie quests and never had difficulty in playing first time someone said

"find yourself a handicapped group gl"

Am asking why there is indifference towards players with disability

you say you've been playing for 6 years.... It doesnt sound like you run into this on a regular basis.... So why today have you decided this is some sort of epidemic? Some people are just jerks. Squelch em and move on.

[Gkar]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

You are completely wrong about that. While sex and race don't matter, language and hearing DEFINATELY matter. They impact your ability to communicate. That's something its fair for people to know because it limits your ability to join the party.

In the case of the disability, it actually makes an even bigger difference. If you just refuse to listen, I'll boot you. If you tell me you're deaf, I'll let you stay but warn you that I'll probably automatically comment in voice chat and may forget you can't hear so it may be a bit rough. If you are good with that, so am I. (Actually I'd do the same thing if you said "I'm on my laptop travelling and have no speakers")

Same with language really. If English is not your first language and you tell me I'll be much more understanding if it appears you aren't "getting" something or are having trouble with instructions and I'll repeat and rephrase. Otherwise, I'll just assume jerk and boot you. I've been the "english" guy in a non english group, I hold them back because I can't fully communicate with them and they, and fairly so, sometimes forget to toss out some english in the middle of an <insert language here> conversation.

If a leader requires party members to hear voice then it should be posted in the lfm. Then be sure all members respond to a voice check before proceeding.

No need to put that in the posting, its the default. Do you know how few people don't have ears turned on? Almost none. And they did a voice check, and booted the person who ignored them. (although I would have typed something as well first)

I have pugged quests from levels 1-20, raids as well. None require to hear voice, sure, for some it may make things easier but not necessary.

REQUIRE, no. But it makes it MUCH easier. I've played with a number of deaf people. Some of them were very good. But frankly it was always a slower and more difficult run. No one should be required to run with a disadvantage in their party if they don't want to. This is a GAME and it is for people to have FUN. I'll accomodate as much as I can, but not everyone has the patience for that, nor should they be required to.

edit: I'm responding in general - for harbor elites, you can run it with 1 player and 5 blind and deaf monkeys who don't even have a keyboard so really no excuse to kick there unless you are non responsive for quite a while or are in obvious pike mode.

[alexthegood]

Joined a group for harbor elites i was standing in near the quest area and went in quick started fighting quest was about to finish killed mobs healed party members and quest completed when came out of the dungeon i was just about to type that i am deaf handicapped guy i cannot use headset i was just about to type i got kicked out of the group i asked why he kicked me he said he asked something and i did not answered i told him i was about to type that am a deaf handicapped guy cannot use headset he said go find yourself a HANDICAPPED GROUP GL is this how a disabled person being treated been playing for 6 years who uses voice chat in crappy lowbie quests and never had difficulty in playing first time someone said

"find yourself a handicapped group gl"

Am asking why there is indifference towards players with disability

i am 80% deaf i feel your pain.
that guy was a jerk dont let it get to you,

[LOOON375]

Nobody that plays this game can see through to the people on the other side. There is no way to know if a person is lying or telling the truth.

You can't tell if they are lying and just trying to be a PITA.

You can't tell if they are being genuinely honest about an issue.

The reason I say this, is I have seen a ton of different types of griefers using the most amazing reasons/excuses to grief other players.

All I can suggest is that you be upfront about about your hearing disability when you join a group.

People that don't have speakers get booted all of the time for that reason alone. (not being able to hear instructions)

I have seen LFMs with "need voice" etc and people without that ability (speakers) still click on the LFM and rightly get kicked when it turns out that they can't hear the instructions or are just flat out ignoring the leader.

Life is too short to get bent out of shape regarding some insignificant idiots that happen to find their way into your group.

I am also on Argo and if you ever see one of my LFM's, feel free to join but just make sure to tell me that you can't hear. That way I will know ahead of time that I need to type instructions. My toons are listed in my sig line along with my guild name.

Good luck and I hope to see you around.

Edited to add: Im a disabled veteran.

[Lleren]

You mean to say is that what he told me is right what if you had been suffering from disability and faced the same situation how would you have felt that time sorry to say i had always typed in party chat that i am deaf guy i cannot use headsets and voice chat that i always do and been playing for 6 years never faced such thing and never heard from anyone from saying go find a handicapped group this is totally rude and wrong

As a 6 year veteran you should be aware that sometimes people are not nice or fun to play with. The forum approved advice if someone is not nice or fun to play with, is to kick them after the quest and squeltch them.

Someone insisting on voice chat in the harbor, may not view the quests as crappy newbie quests. While they should not have made fun of you, you should not of zerged their quest for them.

[davidolson22]

I feel like the Op didn't include some important details as to why he got kicked. People don't jsut kick silent players who are an asset to the team in every other way. They boot people who don't listen (which is what it sounds like they thought you were doing, how were they to know you really couldn't listen?), don't help out enough, are soloing the quest, die a lot, etc.

What exactly did you do that was making them so mad? Were they trying to get ransack but you zerged to the boss and finished the quest in record time? They could have been yelling at you not to finish the quest and you inadvertently ignored them. Did you finish the quest before everyone got in? Were you not healing your fellow party members? Were you turning into a soul stone over and over?

What exactly happened?

[Artrish]

I am posting to let you know, original poster, that i feel the way the group leader handled that scenario was in a very unkind nature. My belief, is that as easily as you could choose to inform the party you cannot hear the voice chat, others in the group can easily choose to ask via text if you can hear them speaking before booting you in such a scenario.

Disabilities can be quite hard to get a feel of what is involved with them. To those that experience very few barriers to achieve their goals, they may not be aware of how exhausting things can become once they are your only choice or path to proceed forward.
I mention this part about disabilities as a lot of advice reads as a need to inform others about the barriers that are there, when i feel the complete opposite. This game is a place to enjoy a bit of a time out and enjoy a fantasy adventure dungeon crawling. If every moment i had to write a disclaimer to the party, it really would not feel fun and places a bit too much focus on the disability more then the abilities you posess with the game knowledge you have.

[CodyGenX]

My wife is a teacher for the Deaf. I don't think any of you know the frustration involved with hearing impairment or complete loss of. Goodluck with your future grouping man.

[Falco_Easts]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

For arguments sake, if someone had a bug where they could not read party chat should they tell the group up front as soon as they join? Same deal.

[Doxmaster]

Am asking why there is indifference towards players with disability

Pretty much everyone here doesn't care anymore. Typically, people in this game don't care if you were just stabbed, if you are giving birth or if you actually needed that item yourself so you wont pass it.

The solution is to be upfront with anything that might change interaction with the group. You don't even have to say you're deaf either: "No voice, No speakers, type to talk." Covers everything important.

It will be a bother to put that in chat every time, but if this is a large problem for you it is the only real solution.

[Nyxianne]

If your question is indifference to disability, yes there should be. No offense, but people with disabilities the world over keep asking not to be treated any different. Plus, if you've been playing for 6 years its obvious that you either aren't held back by this disability or are incredibly lucky.

Yes, that party leader could have worded things a bit better, but I think that was more a question of tact than malicious intent. A lot of people rely on voice chat to give instructions, and often can't (or won't) make the switch back to using text. And trust me, when you've been giving instructions over voice chat over and over again and someone is ignoring them (either by choice or because they can't hear) it does get frustrating - which is made even worse when the player doesn't make any indication that they can't hear.

You did make an attempt, but I'm afraid I'm in agreement with some of the other posters here, that if you can't use voice chat then an effort to type "can't hear" or "voice chat doesn't work" should be made.

*Please note that neither of those terms indicates a disability of any kind - it just indicates that instructions should come in typed form.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

My wife is a teacher for the Deaf. I don't think any of you know the frustration involved with hearing impairment or complete loss of. Goodluck with your future grouping man.

I second this. Me, I'm almost deaf on one ear.

And no, I don't like voice chat that much. I prefer to type - and I'm quite fast at it !

My inner Cynic says : "Using voice chat is often to me like ... "oooh, I'm too lazy to type ..." "

[Failedlegend]

My inner Cynic says : "Using voice chat is often to me like ... "oooh, I'm too lazy to type ..." "

I work on my PC for a living so I type quite fast as well but when I'm playing DDO both my hands are occupied so every second I spend typing is a second I'm not contributing to the group. My mouth on the other hand is completely free to talk.

Oh and FYI without my glasses I'm legally blind, I'm photosensitive and I have very poor depth perception. I also have various other issues but nothing related to senses.