healing outside combat..

[decease]

well personally i find it rather terrible that we have to drink potion even outside combat.. my suggestion it to allow tavern food to function anywhere while you are out of combat(hp ones only and only 1/2 efficient).. or at least make a new line of food which function in dungeon while no combat.. just like ham which we already have... thanks

[Fomori]

/not signed

I think that we need less regeneration sources usable in dungeons not more.

[decease]

/not signed

I think that we need less regeneration sources usable in dungeons not more.

well.. regeneration source are a joke.. really.. stack of 100 csw pot are not that expansive you know? less regeneration source won't do this game any good.. well other then push away some new player who can't self heal and unable to form team for whatever they needed.

well i only ever use shrine to regain usage of action boost etc.. infact without heal skill none of the toon will gain full hp after resting at shrine, especially for barb...

p.s. when doing epic none of the cleric hardly ever heal much out of combat, they don't cure disease, remove curse or what so ever.. when asked they ask you to bring pot.. not sure if am always with a bad healer or thats just how things are..

[Destroyer_Omega]

How about just making tavern food work in areas where you can switch spells (and as an effect - just after using a rest shrine)? If using a rest shrine is meant to be the game's way of saying that the characters are taking a longer break inside the quest, i don't see why aren't we allowed to use tavern food there...

Just make all hp and sp regaining buffs vanish once you get too far from the rest shrine, cast a spell etc., just like the buff that enables one to switch spell does. This wouldn't affect sp regeneration in the quest at all (shrines regenerate all sp, and casting a spell makes you loose the buff that enables you to switch spells, so it would also remove the sp regeneration buffs), but those with little self-healing would at least be able to regenerate to full health after each shrine, without relying on others.

[Mastikator]

Get healing amp gear and/or stronger potions if it's time consuming.

[Phidius]

... less regeneration source won't do this game any good.. well other then push away some new player who can't self heal and unable to form team for whatever they needed.
...

Why is it that new players can't self heal? They can pick a dwarven cleric the same as anyone else.

Most people who get good self-healing had to give up something to get it. Giving the raw-DPS-classes equal self-healing just cheapens the game, and removes diversity. Adding more HP regenerating abilities is an attempt to do that.

Imagine if they changed the rage spell to copy the barbarian rage, only not-stacking with it.

[Ravoc-DDO]

/signed

Pots are good but work instant and are fairly weak at high level/hp. Silver flame pots are not always an option for everyone.
Having a heal-over-time alternative is also very useful. It should be vendor available and come in several flavors. The tavern menu (food only) fits this perfectly. Add a slower "eating" animation and make it interruptable to balance its usage to avoid using it mid-combat.

[glouky]

well personally i find it rather terrible that we have to drink potion even outside combat.. my suggestion it to allow tavern food to function anywhere while you are out of combat(hp ones only and only 1/2 efficient).. or at least make a new line of food which function in dungeon while no combat.. just like ham which we already have... thanks

When you will you also want to do it for mana, it will be time to switch to something easier...like wow

[mute_mayhem]

p.s. when doing epic none of the cleric hardly ever heal much out of combat, they don't cure disease, remove curse or what so ever.. when asked they ask you to bring pot.. not sure if am always with a bad healer or thats just how things are..

It's called being prepared for the quest. The cleric/FvS/bard/whatever else has healing capabilities... is not there to babysit you or your red bar.

[letour]

/not signed
it will make heal/repear skill even less valuable than now.

[axel15810]

/not signed

This is what a divine is for. Giving melees any form of self healing effectively nerfs divines and radiant servant especially. Make sure to stay in your cleric's aura. If a FVS is healing they should be healing you if you get down to 1/2 or so out of combat in quests once CSW pots lose their effectiveness (post lvl 11 or so). If a FVS expects you to chug 10 pots between each fight then they aren't healing enough in combat. Nothing wrong with them requiring you to drink 2 or 3 to top yourself off though.

[Gkar]

I do think that cure crit and heal pots should have been added to the game long ago (yes, I know SF pots exist, I'm talking vendor available, buff the SF accordingly upwards).

ML should be high, maybe 13 for cure crit and 17 for heal, but they shoudl exist. While I'm not big on too many deviations from P&P, the stat/HPflation in this game has rendered useless the potions that should still be useful at high level.

[Gkar]

/not signed

This is what a divine is for. Giving melees any form of self healing effectively nerfs divines and radiant servant especially. Make sure to stay in your cleric's aura. If a FVS is healing they should be healing you if you get down to 1/2 or so out of combat in quests once CSW pots lose their effectiveness (post lvl 11 or so). If a FVS expects you to chug 10 pots between each fight then they aren't healing enough in combat. Nothing wrong with them requiring you to drink 2 or 3 to top yourself off though.

I'm confused. How does it nerf them? It means less babysitting and more killing

[SiliconScout]

/NOT signed with emphasis.

I'd explain why but honestly you probably won't get it. If you did you wouldn't have posted the idea.

[decease]

/not signed

This is what a divine is for. Giving melees any form of self healing effectively nerfs divines and radiant servant especially. Make sure to stay in your cleric's aura. If a FVS is healing they should be healing you if you get down to 1/2 or so out of combat in quests once CSW pots lose their effectiveness (post lvl 11 or so). If a FVS expects you to chug 10 pots between each fight then they aren't healing enough in combat. Nothing wrong with them requiring you to drink 2 or 3 to top yourself off though.

no way.. first you have to be out of combat to use food, second it take several minutes to regenerate your health back to full. as i state above divine are for combat emergency healing ... plus everyone is getting pot/umd scroll anyawyz.. it will not change anything end game.. only early game for new player..

/not signed
it will make heal/repear skill even less valuable than now.

do they even have any value at all to begin with? i see no reason for anyone to take this.. 1umd scroll or several cheap pot from guild vendor is all you need..

Why is it that new players can't self heal? They can pick a dwarven cleric the same as anyone else.

Most people who get good self-healing had to give up something to get it. Giving the raw-DPS-classes equal self-healing just cheapens the game, and removes diversity. Adding more HP regenerating abilities is an attempt to do that.

Imagine if they changed the rage spell to copy the barbarian rage, only not-stacking with it.

not everyone like hireling, hireling are dumb are foolish.. and hireling can't enter every area.. like sub in middle of market. many things could get your hireling kill, leftover, trap, hireling ai.. etc XD

p.s. we already have potion that are viable in combat healing, and all sort of healing scroll/wand.. adding food will not change anything end game.. no one will wait you 3 minutes to regenerate with food while running epic/raid.. it is for new player who want to solo early stuff without a silly foolish hireling..

/NOT signed with emphasis.

I'd explain why but honestly you probably won't get it. If you did you wouldn't have posted the idea.

oh.. am glad that you didn't bother to explain. you were right that i or any being with sane mind could get it.. so you might just want to keep it to yourself.. as a secret =)

[axel15810]

I'm confused. How does it nerf them? It means less babysitting and more killing

There's a few reasons why IMO any form of reliable self healing for melees can't work.

Passive healing is the only thing clerics really bring that FVS doesn't (spell versatility doesn't count for much). Passive healing is the #1 advantage to running a cleric. If you give everyone passive healing then you're really just giving everyone their own personal healing aura. Passive healing is the main advantage to running a cleric and if everyone has this then there is no longer a reason to run a cleric.

Also every time you give other classes more self healing ability you reduce the divine's role, taking away their usefulness in parties. Yeah divines would have more time to kill stuff but if all you're doing is CCing all the time there's no reason to run a divine over an arcane.

Also pallies, battleclerics and clonks would all be nerfed since they all sacrifice DPS to get self healing. If pure melees get decent self healing then there's little reason to run any of these builds.

Also if melees have passive healing in quests then they would also have it in combat, which would create a huge balance issue. You could build a super high AC tank with tons of HP and healing amp, use a passive healing item and be nearly indestructible in a lot of situations. Even if you gave it a slow consumption time like someone else suggested you could just eat it before you ran into a mob. I don't think there's anyway to balance it.

IMO giving melees any kind of reliable self healing at midgame and endgame just can't work...that's why I'm always against these ideas when they come up. I could go on and on but I'll stop here.

[axel15810]

no way.. first you have to be out of combat to use food, second it take several minutes to regenerate your health back to full. as i state above divine are for combat emergency healing ... plus everyone is getting pot/umd scroll anyawyz.. it will not change anything end game.. only early game for new player..

If it takes several minutes to regen your health then it would be slower than CSW pots so it wouldn't change anything. And if it's passive what are you gonna do just make the item suddenly stop working when you get some set amount of distance close to trash mobs? That wouldn't make sense...lol do all mobs have some special kind of anti-food aura?

And like I was saying in my prior post if it's passive but still working in combat then there's a huge range of balance issues to deal with. I just don't think it should or can work.

Edit: Yes I agree that new players who choose melee classes and can't afford pots have some major problems. I do think we should make all healing pots (except silver flame pots) cheaper to make them something accessible to new players early game.

[marybee]

This seems a little "one sided" discussion, so here's my take on it. I play an epic level cleric. Some Epic quests tax all my healing resources including auras and healing bursts. Simply put there is not much left for remove curse and remove disease. However, if I think I have enough spell points for the quest without using costly pots myself I will happily remove curses as I see them. It depends on the quest and depends on the party.

Outside combat I would expect a fighter or whoever needs it to regain hit points from my aura as that does not use spell points. I will mention this fact before we get too far into the quest so everyone is on the same page. The term "Hug the cleric" is quite literal as you do get a benefit from that. If people race on ahead then complain they are not healed before the next fight I have not too much sympathy for them. We can all move to the next fight together by which time everyone is healed up, if not I make sure they are.

A cleric sometimes faces a choice, cure a curse or heal the fighters. To me, healing always comes first. Often it is not possible to do both, certainly not at the same time. It is always best to come prepared to any quest with remove disease and remove curse pots and healing pots in your inventory. I do carry spell point pots, but I do ask the party in general if we should use them. I only do that for epics and raids or perhaps a rare high level elite quest, anything less then it is to me not worth using a pot. If I end up solo healing the shroud in part 4 then I will use pots and also not be afraid to ask for donations. Everyone should carry Spell point pots in my opinion for such times as these. If you find yourself without curse pots or healing potions you could always offer one to the cleric to make up for the extra healing they may have to do.

[Airgeadlam]

p.s. when doing epic none of the cleric hardly ever heal much out of combat, they don't cure disease, remove curse or what so ever.. when asked they ask you to bring pot.. not sure if am always with a bad healer or thats just how things are..

Well... To be honest, general consensus is BE READY before entering epics. That means you should have as many sides covered as possible. A minimum stack of various potions (remove curse/disease/poison, CSW/SF... etc) are a must. The more you can carry, the better. Not everyone can use heal scrolls, or GH scrolls (or have clickies)... whatever, so is understandable to ask for some buffs, we all get that. But by the time you hit lvl 20, there is NO WAY you can't afford at least a stack of potions. If you happen to forget to renew your stack of curse removal (we've all been there) and you say "hey, i forgot to renew stack, can you help me with this curse" I will throw a remove curse without hesitation. If you're the tank I'm taking care, and you didn't see the curse on you, I will throw a remove curse without hesitation. But on the general gameplay, you should be taking care of your curses/diseases/poison.

Also, out of the combat... You won't get any damage, so no need to constantly topping off the HP. If you are veeeery low, a heal is certainly expected, but if you're at 60%+, you can walk in the cleric's aura on your way to next fight, or wait a bit and be healed on the first mass/burst then (this assuming your hp is not amazingly low to start with, though)

[SiliconScout]

oh.. am glad that you didn't bother to explain. you were right that i or any being with sane mind could get it.. so you might just want to keep it to yourself.. as a secret =)

No Secret, it's just stated all over this thread more or less and pretty obvious to me. Given your vigorous defence of the idea I don't see you changing your mind about it.

Therefore you either won't "get it" or won't agree with it. Therefore no point in piling on :^)

I get where you are coming from but just don't agree. Might as well make a shrine just heal you to full HP and SP with a rest, and no I am not suggesting that actually happen either. LOL