what to do with my human Pal 11/Rog 3/Ftr 2?

[GlassJaw]

Hi all. I'm just returning to the game after a LONG hiatus (almost 2 years) and have been getting up to speed on all the changes. Previously, my main was a 28-pt Paladin that I built for both soloing and grouping to get to 1750 favor.

Anyway, as the game changed, I monkied with the build more and more and started multi-classed with Fighter and Rogue to get UMD, Evasion, and more feats. The character was exceptional at soloing and very survivable but I will admit dps started to be a problem in the end-game content at the time.

So now, what to do? I have since moved on to other characters but with Greater Reincarnation and +2 tomes readily available, it seems the character could be worth saving.

Here are some ideas I had if I GR:

either Pal 16/Ftr 2/Rog 2 or Pal 15/Ftr 2/Rog 3 (not sure if Pal 16 or Rog 3 is better)
take KotC II

Feats
TWF/Imp TWF/Gr TWF
Oversized TWF
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Toughness
EWP: Khopesh
Imp Crit
Skill Focus: UMD

One possible problem is that I took the Fighter and Rogue levels late in the build so I'm not sure if that would screw up my respec at all. Does GR+ let you change the level you took a certain class? I was thinking I could do a GR+3, take Rogue at level 1 instead of Paladin for the extra skills and then swap 2 levels of Rogue later on for Paladin depending on how many Rogue levels I want.

Thanks!

[AylinIsAwesome]

A GR+3 tome would let you change 3 levels, but it remembers the order.

If you take Rogue at level 1 now (but you didn't previously), that counts as one of your three class-level swaps. Putting that Paladin level back in when you took your first Rogue level counts as a second one.



Anyway, right now Paladins aren't considered to be DPS characters. KotC only works against Evil Outsiders, which make up such a small percent of the end game at the moment. Most Paladins now take Defender of Siberys for that reason, and get the extra +STR/CON, as well as the bonus 10%/15%/20% HP.

Unless you're planning on sticking with mostly Should and Shavarath, then I'd suggest DoS (especially since right now it's more DPS against more end-game content than KotC is).

As for a final level split, if you can't get to 18 Paladin, then 15 Paladin (Bulwark of Good 4 and Divine Might 3) or Paladin 14 (casting Zeal) is fine.

Looking at what you've got, your options seem to me to be:

1. 18 Paladin/2 Fighter (dropping the Rogue levels)
Pros: Get DoS3, 2 bonus feats from Fighter, longer duration on Zeal and Divine Favour
Cons: Lose UMD and Evasion
2. 18 Paladin/2 Rogue (dropping the Fighter levels)
Pros: Good Reflex save with Evasion, UMD, situationally higher DPS (from the above), longer duration on Zeal and Divine Favour
Cons: No bonus feats
3. 14 Paladin/4 Fighter/2 Rogue (take Rogue at 1, turn 2 of the other Rogue levels into Paladin levels)
Pros: Get Zeal, Weapon Specialization: Slashing, UMD, Evasion, Haste Boost 2
Cons: Lose AC potential (if that's important to you, though it is highly gear dependent), only 1 level 4 spell slot, lose DoS3
4. 15 Paladin/2 Fighter/3 Rogue
Pros: Most Sneak Attack, UMD, Evasion, ect.
Cons: Lose DoS3


To be honest, if you can live without Extend and either OTWF or SF:UMD, I'd suggest going with the 18 Paladin/2 Rogue.

18 Paladin/2 Fighter is also pretty potent.

Out of options 3. and 4, I think right now 3. is a little bit stronger, but 4. offers you the option of using a LR+5 tome to switch to pure Paladin should you want to when the enhancement revamp comes out.

[hcarr]

I wouldn't mess with greater reincarnating. Grind out the levels to lvl 20 and get ready to true reincarnate.

once motu hits and everyone is leveling their druid you should have little trouble finding groups to level with.

Then you dont have to worry about when you took what and where with lesser/greater reincarnation

[maddmatt70]

A GR+3 tome would let you change 3 levels, but it remembers the order.

If you take Rogue at level 1 now (but you didn't previously), that counts as one of your three class-level swaps. Putting that Paladin level back in when you took your first Rogue level counts as a second one.



Anyway, right now Paladins aren't considered to be DPS characters. KotC only works against Evil Outsiders, which make up such a small percent of the end game at the moment. Most Paladins now take Defender of Siberys for that reason, and get the extra +STR/CON, as well as the bonus 10%/15%/20% HP.

Unless you're planning on sticking with mostly Should and Shavarath, then I'd suggest DoS (especially since right now it's more DPS against more end-game content than KotC is).

As for a final level split, if you can't get to 18 Paladin, then 15 Paladin (Bulwark of Good 4 and Divine Might 3) or Paladin 14 (casting Zeal) is fine.

Looking at what you've got, your options seem to me to be:

1. 18 Paladin/2 Fighter (dropping the Rogue levels)
Pros: Get DoS3, 2 bonus feats from Fighter, longer duration on Zeal and Divine Favour
Cons: Lose UMD and Evasion
2. 18 Paladin/2 Rogue (dropping the Fighter levels)
Pros: Good Reflex save with Evasion, UMD, situationally higher DPS (from the above), longer duration on Zeal and Divine Favour
Cons: No bonus feats
3. 14 Paladin/4 Fighter/2 Rogue (take Rogue at 1, turn 2 of the other Rogue levels into Paladin levels)
Pros: Get Zeal, Weapon Specialization: Slashing, UMD, Evasion, Haste Boost 2
Cons: Lose AC potential (if that's important to you, though it is highly gear dependent), only 1 level 4 spell slot, lose DoS3
4. 15 Paladin/2 Fighter/3 Rogue
Pros: Most Sneak Attack, UMD, Evasion, ect.
Cons: Lose DoS3


To be honest, if you can live without Extend and either OTWF or SF:UMD, I'd suggest going with the 18 Paladin/2 Rogue.

18 Paladin/2 Fighter is also pretty potent.

Out of options 3. and 4, I think right now 3. is a little bit stronger, but 4. offers you the option of using a LR+5 tome to switch to pure Paladin should you want to when the enhancement revamp comes out.

You left out 18 pally 2 monk which has evasion, 2 feats, and nice saves (note would have to lesser reincarnate so your options maybe better).. I agree that all pally builds are tankish builds at the moment hopefully something we will see addressed in the next few updates. The class should have a dps option and a better utility build option (hunter of dead is kind of the pally utility option but it is not that good either).

[AylinIsAwesome]

You left out 18 pally 2 monk which has evasion, 2 feats, and nice saves (note would have to lesser reincarnate so your options maybe better).. I agree that all pally builds are tankish builds at the moment hopefully something we will see addressed in the next few updates. The class should have a dps option and a better utility build option (hunter of dead is kind of the pally utility option but it is not that good either).

I left it out on purpose because the OP specifically mentioned a GR+3 tome.

But I definitely think that 2 Monk is the ideal split for a Paladin.

[unbongwah]

What about GR +3 into pally 14 / ftr 2 with the plan of going pally 18 / ftr 2? You'd lose UMD & Evasion but could probably turn yourself into a respectable DoS tank.

[GlassJaw]

Wow, great stuff everyone. Lots to think about.

Is DoS still worthwhile even if going the TWF path? The bonuses do seem pretty sweet, even if not going S&B all the time.

What's the preferred method to meet the feat requirements of DoS if you don't take any fighter levels? Shield Mastery?

Levels of monk are intriguing but I've always liked having crazy-high UMD with Rogue levels. Think I'm leaning towards Rog 2 or sticking with Ftr 2/Rog 2. Just not sure what feats to drop if I go just Rog 2.

[78mackson]

Just TR into any other melee build, and save that GR+3 for something usefull.