Horc str/wis build

[smithj_2020]

I went horc str/wis for some really good DCs for SF, QP, ToD but still able to maintain a very nice str score and some good dps out put.

I know Helf w/ Rogue dilly and human versatility is more dps than Horc but with the DCs ill have I figure, QP will land more oftern, and ToD will hit for more dps then a Helf w/rogue dilly (str build of course).

The point of this build was to not have to put in any levels into str and to still obtain a 40 str or close to it, while having a nice 40+ wis score for those DCs

Let me know questions/concerns what could be better..thanks

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
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Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 334
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom               16                    28
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 13
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 17
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    31
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         6                    42
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  3                     9
Hide                  3                     8
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  3                    20
Listen                3                     9
Move Silently         3                     8
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                  3                     9
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                4                     7
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Void Strike II
Enhancement: Void Strike III
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III

str: 22 + 2 ship + 2 yug + 1 excep + 6 item + 2 rage +3 abashi = 38 (maintained easily) +6 titans = 44 (situation)
dex: 18 + 2 ship + 2 yug + 6 item + 4 stance = 32
con: 18 + 2 ship + 2 yug + 6 item - 2 stance = 26
int: 10 + 2 = 12
wis: 28 + 2 ship + 2 yug + 3 exceptional + 7 item + 2 alchemical = 44
cha: 10 + 2 ship + 6 item = 18

DCs:
SF= 10 + 10 (1/2 monk level) + 10 (alchemical) + 16 (wis) + 5 spare hand = 52 (53 with ship shrine)
QP = 10 + 10 (1/2 monk) + 17 = 37 (38 ship) I think ship is only +1 skills not sure
ToD = 10 + 10 + 16 = 37 (38 with ship)

Gear:
Epic Helm of Moranon
Epic Frozen Tunic
Epic Envenomed Cloak - +2 Good Luck
Epic Charged Gauntlets
Epic Scorched Bracers - Toughness
Epic Goggles of Time Sensing - +1 exceptional Wis
Kyoshos Ring w/ Holy Burst
Alcheimcal Wraps - air/water
Min II Necklace -
Epic Ring of Stalker
Epic Spare Hand
Madstone Boots - Boots of Anchoring

I did not put madstone into the calculations because its not on constantly and short, so you can factor that in, where as I can consume Rage Pots non stop or have caster in party...

Yes I did sacrifice the Shintao Cord and lose +2 hit/damage but I need the Min II somewhere and feel its the best spot....

Let me know thoughts, weaknesses

[UrbanPyro]

Deleted.

[smithj_2020]

I have thought about the power attack enhance and going all the way, and could easily get that in to the build....

as for the void IV, I dont really see it happening, I mean I would need master for every stance, then get void IV, thats 10 more APs and would require me leaving out the healing amp which I dont want to do, no healing amp is never good IMO...

Min II as a belt Im not quite convinced because for epic spare hand to be a swap, as a Monk you use stunning fist every opponent, so it would require you to basically never have the Min II belt on which is an additional 45 hps....

I mean you can swap for 1 on 1 but not epic runs which I do alot.

I also like the Horcrux using of Grandmaster of Sea, Im an idiot I should have thought of that over the Wind

[Potta]

It's a viable build to ignore STR as long as you have the gear to back it up. If you manage to get enough +hit from other sources, +hit from STR is devalued. What doesn't become worthless however is the extra damage per hit.

DCs do become worthless to stack after a while. If a mob has a fort save of 30 and only manages to save a 45 DC on a roll of 15 or above, it's a vast improvement to increase that DC. But there's no point increasing it beyond 50 in that case. The maximum effectiveness of your DC is the Fort Save of the Mob + 19. I don't know that so many mobs have such high Fort saves that would require a DC that high. As someone who has 45 DC currently, my stuns work fairly well. Not 100%, but most of the time - certainly they work well enough that I don't feel like I need another 8 DC for them to be effective. 4-5 maybe, but not 8. I think you're going over the top on Wisdom and could reign it in a bit, increasing your strength instead.

And yeah, I guess there is QP, but the DC on that is so low to be almost worthless, even with a high wisdom. There's a level of cognitive dissonance going on here I feel that says for Stunning Fist to be worthwhile, I need a DC in the mid 50s. But I'll also appreciate a QP DC of 38. No. If QP is good at 38, then Stunning Fist is good at 38 too, in which case your crazy DC on it is unnecessary and you could drop your Spare Hand that you were so desperate to keep in an earlier post.

Also, don't switch to Water stance. It's not worth it. Yes, it's another +2 DC, but you're forgetting the 10% doublestrike works for stuns too. Every stun in air stance has a 10% chance to proc again, forcing the mob to make another save. If your DC was low, the wisdom would be better, but with a high DC like what you have now, this extra proc chance vastly outdoes it.

[smithj_2020]

It's a viable build to ignore STR as long as you have the gear to back it up. If you manage to get enough +hit from other sources, +hit from STR is devalued. What doesn't become worthless however is the extra damage per hit.

DCs do become worthless to stack after a while. If a mob has a fort save of 30 and only manages to save a 45 DC on a roll of 15 or above, it's a vast improvement to increase that DC. But there's no point increasing it beyond 50 in that case. The maximum effectiveness of your DC is the Fort Save of the Mob + 19. I don't know that so many mobs have such high Fort saves that would require a DC that high. As someone who has 45 DC currently, my stuns work fairly well. Not 100%, but most of the time - certainly they work well enough that I don't feel like I need another 8 DC for them to be effective. 4-5 maybe, but not 8. I think you're going over the top on Wisdom and could reign it in a bit, increasing your strength instead.

And yeah, I guess there is QP, but the DC on that is so low to be almost worthless, even with a high wisdom. There's a level of cognitive dissonance going on here I feel that says for Stunning Fist to be worthwhile, I need a DC in the mid 50s. But I'll also appreciate a QP DC of 38. No. If QP is good at 38, then Stunning Fist is good at 38 too, in which case your crazy DC on it is unnecessary and you could drop your Spare Hand that you were so desperate to keep in an earlier post.

Also, don't switch to Water stance. It's not worth it. Yes, it's another +2 DC, but you're forgetting the 10% doublestrike works for stuns too. Every stun in air stance has a 10% chance to proc again, forcing the mob to make another save. If your DC was low, the wisdom would be better, but with a high DC like what you have now, this extra proc chance vastly outdoes it.

Yea, both of you present very valid points, speacially the wind stance, really the DCs are just increasing my QP and ToD, which I dont know if I could ever really obtain a basic no fail DC for QP, would have to be 46+ epic I think...

[edgarallanpoe]

Epic Spare Hand is more of a swap item anyway.

Only a non monk player would say that. +5 DC to SF & IS (& Kukan Do for a light monk) is a swap item for a monk? lol The *only* time that it would make sense to swap that out would be while fighting undead but even then IS is still helpful in lowering AC.

[Revolted]

Only a non monk player would say that. +5 DC to SF & IS (& Kukan Do for a light monk) is a swap item for a monk? lol The *only* time that it would make sense to swap that out would be while fighting undead but even then IS is still helpful in lowering AC.

Sorry but if you have 48 DC without it you really wont need it... Its much more important to get plus 45 hp with a GS belt then get to 53 DC on stunning fist, since with 48 you'll stun everything. My gimp monk has right now 43 DC without Spare Hand, and it's rare for me to not stun any epic mob...

[twigzz]

Looks like a solid build. Personally I'd drop a toughness feat for imp sunder tho.

[Stormraiser]

Looks like a solid build. Personally I'd drop a toughness feat for imp sunder tho.

Agree. Definitely drop the 2nd toughness. The improved sunder makes it easier to stun things as well, even if they make the save.