8 strength

[TheHolyDarkness]

Short term? Yeah, you might get enfeebled a bit. Your carry limit might annoy you a bit too. I'm leveling an Arty at the moment and I confess that I can be found helpless every now and then.

So what? Carry some lesser restoration potions. Use the deathward goggles from Tangleroot.

Long term? Once you get to the endgame, all it takes is a common +2 Tome, a ship buff, the rage spell, and a +6 Str item fitted on somewhere and you're settled. I have both a Sorc and a FvS with 8 base Str and they never have any issues carrying a full backpack of stuff. Ever.

At this point, even if you (were caught without deathward for some reason and) got hit by some form of energy drain, your UMD constistency with Restoration and Heal Scrolls with should be enough to render it moot anyway. Afterall, its not like you'd be helpless after one enfeeblement (oh no, my total modified str of 18-20 went down to say, 11 or something. Whatever shall I do? /chucks heal scroll; /clickies Tangleroot Goggles; /nags healer for forgetting our deathward).

So unless you've pre-intended to TR, don't waste valuable attribute points on str when you are a caster.

Max your Cha, max you Con, put the remainder in Int. There, you are done.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[FranOhmsford]

Y'all do realise that you cannot actually drink a Lesser Resto Pot if at 0 str right?

Quite often I've come across this exact scenario {and not on dumped str toons either}.

This apparently goes for 0 Cha too as my Clerics and Paladins have been reduced to this in one hit in VoN 2 - Cannot drink a Pot or Cast a Spell or even Burst.

BTW I personally like being able to TU so do not dump Charisma.

[wax_on_wax_off]

My Elven Wind stance Monk - Certainly not dumped str but not maxed either - constantly dropped out of stance thanks to Ray of Enfeeblement - This spell is a huge Pain in the Proverbial.

I would never recommend dumping str - I would also say that 18 con is overkill, 16 is frankly overkill too unless Dwarf / Warforged.
14 Con is the safe point for anyone else but Elves / Drow.
12 Con is acceptable on the Elven races.
Anything less is BAAAAD!

If you wish to have skill points and Str it's not too much of an issue to drop Con to 14, keep your Cha maxed and put the rest into Str and Int.

Obviously this is under the proviso that you understand Toughness is a must have feat {enhancements too} and False Life / Toughness items are also highly recommended.

This is true except for arcanes. 16 minimum unless drow palemaster. 17-20 is better.

[FranOhmsford]

This is true except for arcanes. 16 minimum unless drow palemaster. 17-20 is better.

So how about an Elven Arch Mage?

Yes I know - Hardly a top build.

Would you really put the full amount of points in to get that 6 con up to 16?

Or would you accept that 14 con was doable {or even 12} and round out your character?

I fully understand that to an arcane once you've maxed your casting stat there's little else to worry about other than Con BUT why not have a usable Str, Wisdom for Saves and Charisma for those all important Heal Scrolls on your Elven Arch Mage rather than simply saying MOAR HP!

[wax_on_wax_off]

So how about an Elven Arch Mage?

Yes I know - Hardly a top build.

Would you really put the full amount of points in to get that 6 con up to 16?

Or would you accept that 14 con was doable {or even 12} and round out your character?

I fully understand that to an arcane once you've maxed your casting stat there's little else to worry about other than Con BUT why not have a usable Str, Wisdom for Saves and Charisma for those all important Heal Scrolls on your Elven Arch Mage rather than simply saying MOAR HP!

One of the first characters I ever rolled in DDO was a 12 con elf wizard. It's since been deleted as it is completely unviable. I'd absolutely want 16 base con on an elf wizard and I wouldn't roll an elf wizard if it wasn't a palemaster (archmages can't heal very well).

18 base int, 16 base con, elf, palemaster, pure is one of the strongest first life end game wizard builds imo. That, along with a web spamming WF AM are about the only first life wizards that are properly viable at cap without excessive gear (I have a drow but I hurt in elite end game content and some epics due to only 29 spell pen).

[FranOhmsford]

One of the first characters I ever rolled in DDO was a 12 con elf wizard. It's since been deleted as it is completely unviable. I'd absolutely want 16 base con on an elf wizard and I wouldn't roll an elf wizard if it wasn't a palemaster (archmages can't heal very well).

18 base int, 16 base con, elf, palemaster, pure is one of the strongest first life end game wizard builds imo. That, along with a web spamming WF AM are about the only first life wizards that are properly viable at cap without excessive gear (I have a drow but I hurt in elite end game content and some epics due to only 29 spell pen).

So what you're saying is that an Elf ArchMage is a gimp no matter what?

in DDO a game based on Dungeons and Dragons?

An Elf - Already the worst race possible for pretty much every class has to be a Pale Master to be viable as a Wizard?

And this is OK by you?

You not only accept this but use these forums to tell people not to make a character they actually want to play?

My first character in DDO is Larystessian Caravardian {Elf Wizard 14 / Rogue 3 Arch Mage} and yes I know he's hopelessly gimped. I will not under any circumstances be deleting him though.
I will also most definitely not be turning him into a PM or losing a Rogue Level - It would make him into a completely different character.

He has a 14 base Con and a +2 Tome.
This is possibly as a result of the Greater Res I had to do to go from 28pt to 32pt and I had a much lower Con originally.
He has 228 HP unshipbuffed.
Guess what: It's his DCs and SPs that are the problem NOT his HP even though he has no False Life or Minos or Greensteel currently {He does however have 153 Argo favour}.
This with an Int of 33 {22 Base, 2 Inherent, 3 Feat, 6 Enchanted} Unshipbuffed - My ship is Lvl 41 so the +1 shrine evens me out to 34.

Add those up - Greater False Life 30, Minos 10, Greensteel 45 and 9 HP / Lvl from his current unshipbuffed Con of 21
and we get a total of 340 HP at Lvl 20 {Still with just 3 Rogue Levels}.
You can then add on the extra HP from Toughness for another 3 taking it 343 total.

Yes this is low if you absolutely insist on 400HP as a bare minimum no matter what the toon BUT is it really that low as to make him completely nonviable.
More to the point: Is it his HPs that are the big problem or Simply the fact that his DCs and SPs have suffered during the transition after Lvl 10?
Will his DCs and SPs stand up in Epics with 3 Lvls of Rogue?

His second life will probably be Arti but one day he will go back to being a Rogue Wizard - On that day I truly hope Elves have been put back to where they should be - The best race bar none as an ArchMage.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So what you're saying is that an Elf ArchMage is a gimp no matter what?

in DDO a game based on Dungeons and Dragons?

An Elf - Already the worst race possible for pretty much every class has to be a Pale Master to be viable as a Wizard?

And this is OK by you?

You not only accept this but use these forums to tell people not to make a character they actually want to play?

My first character in DDO is Larystessian Caravardian {Elf Wizard 14 / Rogue 3 Arch Mage} and yes I know he's hopelessly gimped. I will not under any circumstances be deleting him though.
I will also most definitely not be turning him into a PM or losing a Rogue Level - It would make him into a completely different character.

He has a 14 base Con and a +2 Tome.
This is possibly as a result of the Greater Res I had to do to go from 28pt to 32pt and I had a much lower Con originally.
He has 228 HP unshipbuffed.
Guess what: It's his DCs and SPs that are the problem NOT his HP even though he has no False Life or Minos or Greensteel currently {He does however have 153 Argo favour}.
This with an Int of 33 {22 Base, 2 Inherent, 3 Feat, 6 Enchanted} Unshipbuffed - My ship is Lvl 41 so the +1 shrine evens me out to 34.

Add those up - Greater False Life 30, Minos 10, Greensteel 45 and 9 HP / Lvl from his current unshipbuffed Con of 21
and we get a total of 340 HP at Lvl 20 {Still with just 3 Rogue Levels}.
You can then add on the extra HP from Toughness for another 3 taking it 343 total.

Yes this is low if you absolutely insist on 400HP as a bare minimum no matter what the toon BUT is it really that low as to make him completely nonviable.
More to the point: Is it his HPs that are the big problem or Simply the fact that his DCs and SPs have suffered during the transition after Lvl 10?
Will his DCs and SPs stand up in Epics with 3 Lvls of Rogue?

His second life will probably be Arti but one day he will go back to being a Rogue Wizard - On that day I truly hope Elves have been put back to where they should be - The best race bar none as an ArchMage.

The questions on the forums are what is best, what will get accepted into groups (epic or otherwise), what builds will people want to have around ...

Do what you like, this is DDO, most of the time no one cares. I put my LFM and accept the first 5 to hit it no matter what for most quests. Sometimes I make a comment about how it is peculiar that my level 15 wizard has 80 more HP than the level 15 fighter (I'm on 360 HP atm) but I could care less.

Take the same character joining an actual difficult quest and I'd think again but those quests are few and far between and I'm more likely to change the quest choice or difficulty than to kick someone.

As far as giving advice on the forums I try to consider what it's like to be a new player without a GS item (-45 HP), possibly no GH pack (-10 HP), no guild (-40 HP from no shrine or guilt slot), no necro 4 pack (-20 HP), no cove trinket (-10 HP) and all of a sudden it can become quite good to be able to get over 300 HP on a fresh level 20 character by having 16 base constitution on an elf palemaster (most epics I'll kick anyone who is under 300 when they join unless the quest is soloable).

As always, player>quest knowledge>gear>build. You can do a lot with a crummy build if you know the quest, gear well, player well etc. Can you get along with your gimp 17/3 build? Only you know. Will you get kicked from difficult content on the other hand? Yes. And that is why I advise the way that I do.

It may not be right that the only viable elf wizard build is a palemaster but that is the way that it is. If you want to play an elf archmage then grind out 3 wizard PL's and splash 2 rogue and then you can have your cake and eat it too, that is the beauty of the game (meanwhile with the same effort at the end my pure wizard will be able to tank most raid bosses and have higher DCs, spell penetration, HP etc).