Epic Destinies

[Bowser_Koopa]

If you already have been levels 21-25 and you have say X epic destiny xp, while your re-leveling to 25 does the xp gained for leveling back to 25 also count towards increasing your over all epic destiny xp?

Example if i had 5,000 epic destiny xp, then tr'ed and got back to 20 and then gained 5,000 more "epic xp" do I also earn 5,000 more epic destiny xp and now have 10,000 epic destiny xp?

[LeLoric]

The biggest fundamental flaw with the regrinding from lev 21-25 is it furthers the rift between those doing tr lifes and those playing at endgame.

I like to stop in between lifes and do some endgame stuff try out my build for a bit and see how it plays at endgame etc.

The problem is that in order to get to endgame after I have lev 20 capped my tr I would now have to grind out 5 more levels at the significant xp increase over regular levels that was stated earlier.

So I cant hop in a lev 25 Lloth raid in between lives like I do now with an epic dragon or chrono or velah.

Sure while I do the levels 21-25 I can also unlock another destiny if I want but I could do that anyways.

It also means that if I am a lev 25 already it puts more of an opportunity cost to each tr meaning that if a new class comes out I am less likely to buy it to try it or to spend tp to get another heart of wood to grab that 3rd monk life for +1.

Lastly it creates a power gap between those who may already have gotten all their tr's and becomes rather daunting for newer players.

[Cetus]

i guess i just don't see it the xp for lvl 21-25 is the same for first lifers as it is for completionists it's not like there will be a shortage of epic quests for xp be happy they let you tr at 20 and don't make you go to 25.

I'm not sure how to convey my perspective on this.

You will obviously want to get to 25 eventually right? The most efficient way to pursue your journey to 25 is to get all of you TR's out of the way FIRST, agree?

Right there is a flexibility issue, I have to do one before the other if I don't want to redo anything.

Now, you got your trs out of the way, and completed your journey to 25.

If a time comes along when you want another past life, what TODAY takes 20 levels to do, you now have to do the same 20 levels and an additional 5 epic levels AGAIN for the same past life to return to your former standing.

The end result is- a wasted grind for 5 epic levels each and every time after the second because you gained your epic destinys the first round.

Thats my fundamental point, there is absolutely zero gain for re grinding the 5 epic levels after you gain your destinys the first time- for the SAME BENEFIT of a past life that we have now, doing 20 levels.

[arkonas]

seriously why cant people read? is it that hard?


David: In case anyone is wondering, any Epic Destiny progress made on a character will remain even after True Reincarnation. Until reaching level 20 again, you can't restart work on Epic Destinies. Until you re-level to 20, all Epic Destiny progress on that character is paused.

Max Nichols: Also, like re-doing a character through True Reincarnation, if you take an Epic Destiny and later decide it's not for you, it's not a dead-end. You can always branch out in another direction. You're never locked into any Epic Destiny, and eventually you can unlock them all.

[Nick_RC]

Nobody wants free god mode anything. You earn your levels (which, according to an earlier post by MF, will not be a trivial overnight thing to do) and then have to RE-ACQUIRE them each and every time you decide to add on a past life....

The fundamental problem here is redoing a grind that you have already done. NOT a request to get something for free.

Hey mate,

I think you and lelo are spot on about the rift between endgame and tring peeps - the break for a week or so at cap will be useless now. However for a once off live - say to reaquire completionist wont be such a big deal. Honestly despite what the devs say I cant imagine the 21-25 will be all that tedious. They put completioinist in the game as a joke...now look how many there are. Seems like there is a new one cropping up every week now (Dunno how you or the other old school completionists feel but my achievement feels cheaper with all these xp bonuses - but talk for another day). They(devs) told a guildie of mine that there was no way you would be finished a TR2 before the timer was up when it was introduced...not so much. You know grind. I know grind. Many of the vets do. I dont think the 21-25 will be that big of a deal. But....

**** What I DO want to know is if epic timers will be removed...because It will really suck trying to level in epic content and being on timer constantly.

N

[MadFloyd]

If you already have been levels 21-25 and you have say X epic destiny xp, while your re-leveling to 25 does the xp gained for leveling back to 25 also count towards increasing your over all epic destiny xp?

Example if i had 5,000 epic destiny xp, then tr'ed and got back to 20 and then gained 5,000 more "epic xp" do I also earn 5,000 more epic destiny xp?

Yes, as long as your 'active' destiny is not maxxed out (in which case you could activate another). The only exception here is if you've maxxed out all destinies - which would be equivalent to, say, 50 levels (approximate).

[LeLoric]

seriously why cant people read? is it that hard?


David: In case anyone is wondering, any Epic Destiny progress made on a character will remain even after True Reincarnation. Until reaching level 20 again, you can't restart work on Epic Destinies. Until you re-level to 20, all Epic Destiny progress on that character is paused.

Max Nichols: Also, like re-doing a character through True Reincarnation, if you take an Epic Destiny and later decide it's not for you, it's not a dead-end. You can always branch out in another direction. You're never locked into any Epic Destiny, and eventually you can unlock them all.

Yes why can't people read it can't be that hard.

Read the thread it has been stated by devs that while your epic destiny progress is kept your epic level progress is reset.

[Bowser_Koopa]

Yes, as long as your 'active' destiny is not maxxed out (in which case you could activate another). The only exception here is if you've maxxed out all destinies - which would be equivalent to, say, 50 levels (approximate).

Thank you sir. So at least to me it would appear re-leveling from 21-25 would in fact have a gain attached to it so long as you were working on a destiny you were not maxed out on or had maxed them all out. Which seems fair to me.

[NytCrawlr]

Theres still incentive to further level at 25 with getting another destiny up to tier 5 but requiring each tr to have to also level 21-25 means that a tr cant just get to 20 and play a bit at cap then tr again.

Call me weird, but if I know I want multiple lives on a character, then I am going to spend ZERO time at 20 once I achieve it, and continue to TR. I can't be the only one that sees this.

Besides, "a bit" of time at cap doesn't necessarily mean you are getting to level 21, let alone level 25, so I don't really see the issue since they have already stated that leveling up in epics is going to take quite a lot more XP. Knowing this, I would at least make sure I don't spend too much time at 20 to get 21 and TR for another life.

Never mind, as Madfloyd stated, that it makes sense that you would have to re-earn those levels, just like you have to re-earn 1-20, and I am not sure why anyone would assume otherwise.

[arkonas]

Yes why can't people read it can't be that hard.

Read the thread it has been stated by devs that while your epic destiny progress is kept your epic level progress is reset.

exactly i dont care if i dont get 21-25 it has nothing to do with my tr. they dont have to hit 21-25. they can just tr like their planning on anyways. so since you dont lose anything who cares. grind out the last levels later. you get to keep destines. who cares if you lose the xp.

[dragonofsteel2]

No I don't. Guess what? The XP you gained from levels 1-20 have to be re-earned too - and if it's your third time around, it's significant. The amount of XP required for levels 21 and up is static.

Woot it static at least they did not triple the xp that does not even matter TR getting the completionist. Sarcism Off.

This like the Tomes all over again, og I might want to TR this guy again. Though if level to 25 just have to make that xp again, if TR now I can do less of a grind. Why do think people held on to Tomes did not use them, oh wait because the grind to get them sucked. Oh biggie its a static xp grind we will have to do another 2million, 3million, 4 million? So if want to play end game right away I really just wasting my time now, since do not need the levels to TR again and get my completionist feat back. Woot great work.

[Cetus]

The biggest fundamental flaw with the regrinding from lev 21-25 is it furthers the rift between those doing tr lifes and those playing at endgame.

I like to stop in between lifes and do some endgame stuff try out my build for a bit and see how it plays at endgame etc.

The problem is that in order to get to endgame after I have lev 20 capped my tr I would now have to grind out 5 more levels at the significant xp increase over regular levels that was stated earlier.

So I cant hop in a lev 25 Lloth raid in between lives like I do now with an epic dragon or chrono or velah.

Sure while I do the levels 21-25 I can also unlock another destiny if I want but I could do that anyways.

It also means that if I am a lev 25 already it puts more of an opportunity cost to each tr meaning that if a new class comes out I am less likely to buy it to try it or to spend tp to get another heart of wood to grab that 3rd monk life for +1.

Lastly it creates a power gap between those who may already have gotten all their tr's and becomes rather daunting for newer players.

Exactly. You cannot mix and match then. You either do one or the other with anything in between resulting in a re-grind with nothing to show for it.

I mean, once you hit 25 you now have all your epic destiny stuff. Now what? Doing the actual grind from 21-25 each subsequent time after TR'ing just restores you to where you were, with absolutely zero further gain.

If they want us to regrind levels 21-25 after each TR, then give us a reward for doing so. The past life only rewards regrinding levels 1-20, twist of fate tokens or extra AP's should be granted then for regrinding epic levels. It is just utter nonsense that it, essentially, is work for free.

Anyone who says that "oh, you're regrinding 20 levels anyway" is missing the point. The point is that today, 20 is the level at which you can tr AND are at the peak of your power.

In MOtU, 25 is the peak of your power, and that will be the point at which you'll want to be. 20 is now just a point where you can tr. Separating the two milestones without providing incentive to grind the 5 level difference, but making it a requirement is the problem that I have with it. And it is a very discouraging problem.

[LeLoric]

Thank you sir. So at least to me it would appear re-leveling from 21-25 would in fact have a gain attached to it so long as you were working on a destiny you were not maxed out on or had maxed them all out. Which seems fair to me.

Not really as you can also get that same gain even while at a lev 25 cap. Re-levelling has nothing to so with unlocking a second destiny.

What if some very eager completionist build also unlocks all destinies then turbine releases a new class and now they have to do a life to 20 in the new class and then back 1-25 in their preferred class and get no gain from 21-25.

[MadFloyd]

Thats my fundamental point, there is absolutely zero gain for re grinding the 5 epic levels after you gain your destinys the first time- for the SAME BENEFIT of a past life that we have now, doing 20 levels.

This is also the fundamental point some of us are arguing against. There IS gain in doing the epic levels again because you're ALSO earning Epic Destiny XP, which does gain you abilities.

Another way to look at it: someone mentioned that they like to 'take a break' from TR'ing when they hit level 20 - presumably doing some other in-game activity for a week or so. Currently in the game, whatever you do for that break period, you're certainly not earning XP. If we added a feature that allowed you to (optionally) not earn any progress at level 20 would that be better?

[tihocan]

Got another question which is actually quite important for current build design: once you start advancing in one destiny (without maxing it out), if you TR into another build, can you always keep advancing that destiny (after reaching 20 again)?

[NytCrawlr]

Anyone who says that "oh, you're regrinding 20 levels anyway" is missing the point. The point is that today, 20 is the level at which you can tr AND are at the peak of your power.

So if they said you couldn't TR until level 25, would that make things better?

Now you have 25 levels to grind out each TR, fun!

[Nick_RC]

This is also the fundamental point some of us are arguing against. There IS gain in doing the epic levels again because you're ALSO earning Epic Destiny XP, which does gain you abilities.

What about when they unlock them all? Don't underestimate the playerbase - many of us will have that knocked out quick And yes I feel as if I can say that without even knowing what the xp will be like. We will knock it out quick because yall tend to balance around the average player. What is 'more' xp than heroic levels to a 28 pointer is completely different to 'more' xp to a 36 pointer. And since Epic xp levels dont change based on tr's...you can bet many will unlock em quick.

Again the majority of all this looks awesome.

[arkonas]

Not really as you can also get that same gain even while at a lev 25 cap. Re-levelling has nothing to so with unlocking a second destiny.

What if some very eager completionist build also unlocks all destinies then turbine releases a new class and now they have to do a life to 20 in the new class and then back 1-25 in their preferred class and get no gain from 21-25.

yes but their releasing more later on if you read the article. im sure there will be some added. we have to be patient. unlocking all destines would be the advantage. i dont see why people are complaining if since you will have that option. you dont have to level 21-25 each life that is your call

[My2Cents]

I'm so totally confused (not unusual for me) but I have three basic questions:

- I found myself at a distinct disadvantage to casters in some of the current content, will I still be at extreme (or worse) disadvantage versus casters with the epic destinies (or the epic content for that matter?)

I'm working on a divine but I'm slow and I don't know how hard to push for the Xpack.

- Second, my schedule and Life Situation require me to solo a lot as I have a lot of distractions. Will I still find myself able to do so in the same way I do now with epic destinies (and epic content?) or will they be so epic I stand no chance? I haven't been able to get in a group for the current epics yet.

- And lastly, I haven't played PnP DnD since long before there was such a thing as Epic Destinies (or even PrE's!) and all the names mean nothing to me at this time. I will of course learn but I suspect there are a great many players who are like me or have never even played paper DnD, I wanted to mention this early on so we don't create another split of knows and know-nots.

I was pleased to pre-order the expansion and support DDO, but I confess I'm a little worried that I will be able to enjoy it fully and want to put my input in now -- at least it will make me feel better

[arkonas]

Got another question which is actually quite important for current build design: once you start advancing in one destiny (without maxing it out), if you TR into another build, can you always keep advancing that destiny (after reaching 20 again)?

yes you can unlock them all at one point