Epic Destinies

[Deamus]

Gotcha... so like a sense that the carrot isn't at the end anymore where as before at the end you got the feat?

Alright so let me ask it this way (and don't take this to mean that there are any plans or anything around this).... what would happen if there was a carrot at 25? Does that help or hurt? Obviously we don't wanna take the one at 20 away.

To answer your question , it hurts the carrot on 25 . It hurts the other who do not want to do more grind .

As with the previous post not all people want to grind and tr all the time so as not to be gimped .

The status as it is now if you don't have 3 past lives at least you are consider by some people a gimp . Let me explain , a caster with no past lives cannot finger of death on epic lob so he is considered a bad player so he is not invited . With adding a new carrot on lvl 25 you creating an incentive for the 1% of the people who like grinding and discouraging the rest 99% .This is ddo now with tr mechanism .

With Epic destinies is ok as you can be at end game content all the time . So still enjoy the end game and not grind the same lowbie quests for a long time .

[BlackSteel]

Answer on the epic timer for quests would be nice.

wats up N

personally I wouldnt be too worried about the timer, considering we're getting a second challenge pack with epic exp in it. repeatable non-declining exp isnt too shabby

[Nick_RC]

Once the MotU goes live, Epic will simply refer to content that is level 20 and up - and that it has a min level of 20. It will have difficulty options.

In fact, even existing epic content will now offer Casual, Normal, Hard & Elite, where the epic difficulty in the game today is somewhere between Hard and Elite. So expect this content to be much easier to play as long as you choose something below Elite.

Interesting. What about something like carnival and fens? The quest chains are MUCH lower levels than the epic version. Will there be a dificulty setting like norm/h/e (like now) than epic Norm Hard Elite? Im guessing the timer is removed if it looks like you are making epics into just regular questing?

[Scraap]

In fact, even existing epic content will now offer Casual, Normal, Hard & Elite, where the epic difficulty in the game today is somewhere between Hard and Elite. So expect this content to be much easier to play as long as you choose something below Elite.

The point being that the goal is to make it solo-able for people like you and me.

Planning on killing off eipc ward, by chance?

[DemonMage]

First of all, thanks for your support.

In the live game today, 'Epic' refers to an extreme difficulty level - something beyond Elite.

Once the MotU goes live, Epic will simply refer to content that is level 20 and up - and that it has a min level of 20. It will have difficulty options.

In fact, even existing epic content will now offer Casual, Normal, Hard & Elite, where the epic difficulty in the game today is somewhere between Hard and Elite. So expect this content to be much easier to play as long as you choose something below Elite.

The point being that the goal is to make it solo-able for people like you and me.

I'm really glad about the existing epic content change, it'd be confusing to have these two totally different tiers of epic. That said, how are Epic Tokens going to be handled? Are all 20+ quests going to give them? Are the existing epics only giving them on Elite? etc.

[jejeba86]

Are you always in such a elite endgamegroup that you could not play it at lvl20 like you do now? With a maxxed out completionist?

Atm your toon is the max. Just grind out 65-85 levels and you are there again.

If you can't do epic content without the 5 epic levels on a completionist at 20... then I want to know why.

Totally true.

Besides, don't you guys think you have more than enough characters to play end game with friends while waiting for TRs?

If you are already the top end players in the game, you shall be fine with a few epic abilities, remember that devs said not all epic enhancements would need level requirements.

If people could skip those levels when done once, what would become of the new players when they get to 20? If you think you're going to limbo, ha...

TRing was created as a band aid for the lack of epic advancement, right? Why should they mess things up even more?

[Dagolar]

In fact, even existing epic content will now offer Casual, Normal, Hard & Elite, where the epic difficulty in the game today is somewhere between Hard and Elite. So expect this content to be much easier to play as long as you choose something below Elite.

The point being that the goal is to make it solo-able for people like you and me.

Heh. That's a mixed blessing- on the one hand, easier soloing, easier access to certain items in the more challenging quests, thus making it more reasonable to get old gear over potentially better expansion gear.
On the other hand, certain epics were already easily soloable, and I would have preferred (no casual) and current difficulty to base firmly at (hard).
Ah, well!

On the plus side, multiple difficulty options for xpack quests is a welcome confirmation (though, again, I'm a bit hazy on casual fitting in, unless xpack quests have the comparative difficulty scaling of House C raids currently).

On that note, given the richness of the FR setting for it, it'd be nice to see a few more solo-only quests (Ala Raid the Giants) pop up, if only as a small gift to those of us that appreciate them

[LeLoric]

A few people want somethings, a lot of people want others. You can't appease everyone all the time.

Leloric, you do realize the tomes of learning were introduced to lessen this pain right? Bravery bonus was the first implementation of lessening it. This is a clear intention for anybody not so angry about a new system being implemented. Crystal clear. So let's take those back and then move the TR system to level 25. That would awesome wouldn't it?

This system isn't perfect, and it's certainly not geared for those that race to cap, tr, race again and hit the waiting period to tr again. That's not the average player, not even close. They are designing a system for the masses, not a small fraction of 1%. Is it frustrating for players such as yourself? Of course. Does it make the system inconsequential or broken? Absolutely not.

Gain some perspective and realize it's not just about you.

Why are you inferring I am angry?

I am not angry and do not intend in any way to be.

That being said am I not allowed to voice what I may see as a failure in the system?

I have plenty of perspective and I realize that the issues I bring up hurt many others too not just me.

Please follow forum guidelines with your next post this has nothing to do with me and stop making it about me.

[MadFloyd]

I could swear I read somewhere that initially, you would have access to different destinies depending on your class split (18 levels in one class vs. 6 levels). I can't find this dev post anymore. Has it been edited out? Am I just crazy?

You are not crazy. I edited it out of my original post because it was no longer accurate.

The way it will work is: your dominant class will determine which of the four spheres you start in (or rather choose your first epic destiny from).

[Vellrad]

You are not crazy. I edited it out of my original post because it was no longer accurate.

The way it will work is: your dominant class will determine which of the four spheres you start in (or rather choose your first epic destiny from).

So my melee bard14/figther6 would have accest to arcane destinies, which he'll probably don't care for, instead of martial ones he would be interested with?

[Monkey-Boy]

You do have to repeat 20-25 see my above post you just dont have to get your destiny back. So if your tier 5 in three different destinies you save that but still have to level from 20-25.

So again this further seperates those on a tr grind as they cant stop at 20 and do some endgames before they start another life as everyone else at endgame will be 25.

Agreed, we need to know how much work it'll be to get 21-25 because as it looks now it looks pointless to pursue this unless your TRs are done.

[tihocan]

So, the point that some people are trying to get across is that the cost to TR back to endgame is increasing, and will increase again in the future whenever the level cap is raised. I think this is a valid concern in the long term (it's hard to say how bad it is now since we don't know how long the journey to 21-25 is, and let's not forget that leveling from 1 to 20 has been made significantly faster compared to last year).

Here is a suggestion: allow TRs to start at a level > 1, where the exact level depends on the current epic level, and is computed so that reaching back the same epic level takes approximately the same amount of time as the current leveling from 1 to 20. This should scale with future level cap increases and will keep TR at a fixed cost.

Edit: oops, for this to work the requirement for TR must be to reach the level achieved before the last TR (20 on first life). You could also let the player decide which level he wants to aim for before TRing (between 20 and his current level) which would then decide the start level.

[Combat_Wombat]

I agree I dont really want epic past lifes etc. I just want to be able to break in-between tr lifes at 20 to be abel to play endgame.

True the levelling at 21-25 could be tougher for first lifers if every tr wasn't also regrinding it. It's also tougher if you are leveling with someone and they want to tr again at 20 and you want to continue on to 25 you just lost your leveling partner.

Play on another toon. "womg you mean wecan have more than one?!"

If they wanted to TR again right away and you didn't you'd lose your leveling partner anyways your point is nonsensical.

[tihocan]

You are not crazy. I edited it out of my original post because it was no longer accurate.

The way it will work is: your dominant class will determine which of the four spheres you start in (or rather choose your first epic destiny from).

Thanks! (for confirming my sanity and providing more useful info )

[DemonMage]

So my melee bard14/figther6 would have accest to arcane destinies, which he'll probably don't care for, instead of martial ones he would be interested with?

Yes, originally. But as you gain a couple levels you'll open up access to Artificer and Sorcerer probably, and then as you get closer to maxing out your first Destiny you'll gain access to Rogue, which is potentially more useful to you. Get some of that rogue and you open up Monk and Fighter as well.

At least that's how I understand it working. And don't be so sure that you won't find useful things in the Bard/Artificer/Sorcerer ones either, it may not be ideal but you can probably pick up some useful things, for your Twist of Fate if nothing else.

[Edit] Bards are a fairly unique case in this respect, because you can make solid melee builds where your spells just provide support in the forms of buffs and ignore them otherwise. Divine/Arcane melee builds usually would be happy to gain some casting benefits, where as a lot of bard builds just don't care.

[MadFloyd]

So, with the advent of Epic levels, I assume that we're going to have more epic quests. With that assumption:

1.) Are any older quests going to be given an epic difficulty setting, along with epic items possibly?

2.) Will the quest timers for current epic quests be changed, possibly lowered to make gaining epic experience more feasible until more epic quests can be made?

Thank you for asking this.

1) It's possible, but not by June. The existing quests that support Epic will be given difficulty choices.

2) Yes they will be changed.

[PsychoBlonde]

Sounds pretty awesome. I like how these Epic Destinies seem to be going to make Epic levels feel truly epic.

I'm anxious to see what this looks like in game, and how it will affect character builds. (Like...I'd love to be able to give my Artificer evasion once he hits epic levels )

I'm really hoping we'll get an extra feat or two (at levels 21 and 24, here's hoping). One of my characters just. needs. a. couple. more. feats . . .

If I'm thinking correctly, though, at levels 21-25 you will:

a.) not level in any class
b.) not gain any benefits from leveling as a class since, well, you didn't
c.) not gain any more enhancement points
d.) not get any more Base Attack or Hit Points or Skill Points

You'll just gain epic point unlocks? Or am I not getting this right? So what, if anything, will people get from those levels if they don't buy the epic destinies? Points they can't actually assign to anything?

[Dagolar]

So my melee bard14/figther6 would have accest to arcane destinies, which he'll probably don't care for, instead of martial ones he would be interested with?

From that, Yes- at first, though you'll be able to eventually unlock the martial ones you want. And, considering that it only takes partial effort (Tier 3 out of 5) to unlock adjacent destinies, it's not quite as intensive as it could be. Assuming you take an adjacent sphere to the central one, you'd need to take three destinies to level 3 to hit your first martial destiny.

It may not seem ideal, but there are many reasons not to worry about it:
1: All destinies are supposed to have something to offer to all
2: Every 3 total combined levels grants one point for Twists of Fate
3: You can earn useful Twists of Fate from the destinies you work on in the meantime
4: Your destiny unlocks never clear, even through TR, so you'll make use of them eventually. Even if you never TR the toon, 2 and 3 still provide powerful motivation.

Now, if for some reason you want to limit your power and just stick to one destiny, then yes, it's a cumbersome design.

[DemonMage]

I'm really hoping we'll get an extra feat or two (at levels 21 and 24, here's hoping). One of my characters just. needs. a. couple. more. feats . . .

This was already covered, the exact benefits were already revealed.

Level/ HP  /Saves / BAB / Feats / Ability Increases

21   / +10 / -    / +1  / Feat
22   / +10 / +1   / -   /
23   / +10 / -    / +1  /
24   / +10 / +1   / -   / Feat / Ability Increase
25   / +10 / -    / +1

Another post (Tolero's I believe) also implies you gain skill points, probably the standard allotment.

[LeLoric]

Play on another toon. "womg you mean wecan have more than one?!"

If they wanted to TR again right away and you didn't you'd lose your leveling partner anyways your point is nonsensical.

Nice snarky response dude you win.

What about my post is nonsensical if two people are leveling up to 20 together and at 20 one decides to tr and another goes on from 21-25 they no longer level together.

My point was in response to concerns over not having people to level with from 21-25 and I pointed out a reason the current system may hurt this as much or more.