What would you consider useful Bluff score?

[brian14]

For level 18-19 mobs
For level 18-19 bosses

For level 20 mobs
For level 20 bosses

For epic mobs
For epic bosses

And I mean "useful", not "perfect"

[erikbozelie]

not sure, but i think bluff has the same dc as intimidate minus the penalty for size difference.

[brian14]

Nobody cares about their Bluff scores?

[erikbozelie]

its just an underused skill .

[brian14]

Good! So I will have a real "flavor build"

[SableShadow]

My rule of thumb has been:
- max ranks = non divines/bosses on elite/epic, but can still hit them
- max ranks + item = everything reliably

Never did any real data gathering, though.

[brian14]

My rule of thumb has been:
- max ranks = non divines/bosses on elite/epic, but can still hit them
- max ranks + item = everything reliably

Never did any real data gathering, though.

What are your rogue's stats and items?

The build I am thinking of will have at level 20 following Bluff value:

Base: 23
CHA 18: +4
Improved Bluff: +4
Golden Guile: +15 competence +5 enhancement
Epic Ring of the Buccaneer: +2 luck ==> 53

Reliable boosts:
Greater Heroism: +4 morale
GS CHA skills stick: +3
Human Versatility: +5
Yugoloth CHA potion: +1 ==> 66

Unreliable boosts:
Abishai cookie set: +2 profane
Potion of Eagle's skill: +1-3 alchemical

So she will have 53-57 bluff continuously, 66 for brief periods, and up to 71 when resources are available.

I hope someone can tell how good is this, and can I get away with only 11 base, which would reduce above to:

41-45 continuously, 54 for brief periods, and up to 59 when resources are available. (I think this would not do well in epics)

[SableShadow]

From memory:

23 ranks
4 18 cha
15 cove hat
5 ex cha skills GS item
6 Assassin III
1 SoS skills bonus
------------------------
54
4 GH
------------------------
58

[brian14]

Thank you, this helps!

Sounds like I may get away with fewer than 23 base skill... which is important, as bluff will not be a class skill for most of her levels

[SableShadow]

Thank you, this helps!

Sounds like I may get away with fewer than 23 base skill... which is important, as bluff will not be a class skill for most of her levels

Keep in mind, I only find combat bluffing useful if I don't have to think about it.
I need it, hit the hotkey, bam!

So if you want to get mileage out of it (other than the automatic threat reduction just for using it), you'll want to make sure any gear bonuses are all gear you'd be wearing in a fight anyways. My seeker, for instance, is on the cove hat...my cha is from the ToD ring that's got the +1 and +2 ex con on it ... etc.

I've got to take a pass through all my gear and get it in better order ... organically acquired, as it were. :P

[brian14]

So if you want to get mileage out of it (other than the automatic threat reduction just for using it), you'll want to make sure any gear bonuses are all gear you'd be wearing in a fight anyways.

I see your point, as yes it is important. The toon in question is going to be helf AA 18 / Bard 2, with ranger past life, rogue past life, and rogue dilettante. My playing style is: manyshot for 20 seconds, then sneak/bluff/backstab for 2 minutes, repeat. So equipment switches will occur when going from bow mode to sneak/bluff mode -- but not many. Ring of the Buccaneer will be on all the time. Golden Guile -- probably. Going into multishot mode I will hit "bow" of course, going to bluff mode hit weapon set with CHA skills stick.

[Cap_Man]

To bluff the guards at the start of Schemes of the Enemy on Elite you need a Bluff of 63 (according to DDOwiki).

That's the highest I have seen.

I cann't get that high but I can get them on hard which requires a bluff of 54.

I just have max ranks and usually wear the Golden Guile. But I need a skill boost and a GH to hit that high.

In combat, I don't recall ever missing a bluff check. I use bluff often, especailly when solo, it's a good way to get an assasinate in if you have aggro (Hey! What's that over there? ). It's my number 1 hot key and mapped to a mouse button.

[xSeverinax]

Bluff is just not a skill that I have used on any of my rogue lives. Even with huge dps, as long as you get some threat reduction items and some of the subtle backstab enhancement line - the max is not needed, you will be fine. Certain quests require bluff or intim, I can do crucible elite with a 22 skill no GH, so about there is fine for elite. The epic partycrasher quest needs a 36 bluff / diplo / intim so again fairly easy to get with a +15 item, GH and a skill boost.

What are your rogue's stats and items?


Reliable boosts:
Greater Heroism: +4 morale
GS CHA skills stick: +3
Human Versatility: +5
Yugoloth CHA potion: +1 ==> 66

A tier 3 GS item with exceptional charisma skills will actually give you a +6 as the 3 tiers stack, giving you a +1 a +2 and a +3.

[Candela90]

Well.... on my last life - rogue one 54 bluff and diplo was enough to work on all elite bosses, and at sth like 70% rate of epic ones.

It seems that 50+ is the goal.
There are some thing where you need 60+, but rare, and well... its not that easy to get that high,.

[.Revenga.]

It's not that hard to bluff most epic trash mobs even without full ranks in bluff, i mostly only wear a +6char skill item and not a bluff item ( do have full ranks tho).

The intresting part are bosses/red names. The combination of improved deception and bluff lets me almost perma sneak attack them while holding aggro, not your standard questing situation, but i've been shortmanning epics quite a bit now and it's very useful in such situations (much like solo'ing).

Also the threat reduction on bluff might make you spend a few less points on the subtle backstabbing line. Although for this purpose diplo is still the boss

On a side note, i think the bluff dc still goes up with 4 or 5 after each succesful bluff, so you need it to be quite a bit higher then the base amount for longer fights.

[ElbionTcob]

Useful bluff score?

Mine is 40 and its plenty useful.

The current bluff mechanics are even on a failed bluff check you get a 25% hate reduction for 6 seconds. So what I do is click Bluff, Haste Boost, Dmg boost and then continue attacking. Depending on the situation it gives me 4-5 seconds of an additional 25% hate reduction on top of my 50% reduction.

I find this is useful because on bosses it drops my hate for a short period of time during boosted dps speed.

Bluffing trash? Dont bother. Just let someone else run in first and assassinate something then carry on with dps.

[MrCow]

The formula for the bluff score you need to meet or exceed to get success on a critter:

Bluff check = 10 + Monster's Hit Dice + Monster's WIS modifier

In general, a monster's Hit Dice is equivalent to their Challenge Rating.
Often, a monster has a low WIS modifier unless they are divine or would racially have a high WIS (such as hellhounds).

In general, this means that your target bluff is going to be around the monster's Challenge Rating + 12. Add more for high WIS targets and raid bosses.

[SableShadow]

The formula for the bluff score you need to meet or exceed to get success on a critter:

Bluff check = 10 + Monster's Hit Dice + Monster's WIS modifier

In general, a monster's Hit Dice is equivalent to their Challenge Rating.
Often, a monster has a low WIS modifier unless they are divine or would racially have a high WIS (such as hellhounds).

In general, this means that your target bluff is going to be around the monster's Challenge Rating + 12. Add more for high WIS targets and raid bosses.

Thanks!