New PvP System

[ThePrincipal]

I think there should be a social alternative to the Guild that focuses soley on PVP.... the Ludis

functions same as a guild - leader, officers, members - but instead of renown, you get infamy points in the pvp pits. Instead of guild ships you get a Ludis training house. You get Ludis infamy points and with them unlock bonuses that work in PVP only. Various spellike wards, speed boosts, weapon boosts, etc effects that would essentially balance PVP. Top level shrines like- Shrine SR45 vs Profane AC +20 vs Light DR/45 etc therefore you can build up your Ludis to grand heights and be the KING of PVP ---- have Ludis wars --- but at the cost of not being in a Guild. Guild and Ludis would be mutually exclusive.

Plus dev can regulate PVP behavor using the infamy points. Ganking noobs? Minus points. Killing over your level, positive points. Winning capture the flag, positive points. etc.

Also, Guild buffs would not work in PVP anymore. It would be one or the other.

[BitkaCK2]

My thoughts mirror Memnir's.

• There should never be tangible rewards for PvP in DDO because then people will want class balance in PvP. Class balance in PvP can't happen. Besides, PvP is its own reward isn't it?
  
• PvP zones should have their own instance.
  
• My suggestion, PvP should have it's own chat channel.

Other than that, as long as PvE development is not impeded in any way, I don't really care. Have fun theorycrafting.

bitkaCK

[ThePrincipal]

class balance in pvp is simple.

1. all spells and spell like abilities require saves
2. remove auto targeting on ray spells
3. vorpals/slayerarrows/touchofdeath and similar negated deathblock/deathward
4. allow sneaking and stealth affects

done and done

[Syllph]

class balance in pvp is simple.

1. all spells and spell like abilities require saves
2. remove auto targeting on ray spells
3. vorpals/slayerarrows/touchofdeath and similar negated deathblock/deathward
4. allow sneaking and stealth affects

done and done

I think you forgot: All spells can no longer do 3000 damage to toons who have no more than 1000 HP (and most have much less than this). That's the issue with balance. And are you really proposing adding a save on Power Word spells? Wouldn't that defeat the point of the spell?

[ThePrincipal]

It can still be a high save. Also immunities. Such as 500+hp immune to PWS, 600+ immune to PWK.

PVP vendor who you can buy SR45 or +10 Profane AC or Evasion Buff cookie from would also be very nice plat sink and also help balance the game.

[brickwall]

Pvp Is A Joke Fun For A Time Killer Or A Laugh Not Much Else.

[Syllph]

It can still be a high save. Also immunities. Such as 500+hp immune to PWS, 600+ immune to PWK.

PVP vendor who you can buy SR45 or +10 Profane AC or Evasion Buff cookie from would also be very nice plat sink and also help balance the game.

Interesting thought, but then if casters had over 500 HP they'd be immune to stunning blow/fist and would be buying cookies that gave immunity to knockdown/trip and +45 AC cookies.

It just sounds like another power-creep / balance issue.

[McFlay]

Congo Bowl is a 4v4 very well regulated pvp event that is giving away 20,000 TP and registration been open for a while now, only a few days are currently left to get in. As it stands we have only 5 registered teams out of the 16 spots that are up for grabs at no cost to the participants.

If I can’t fill all 16 spots, which are only 32 players, with an incentive like 20,000 TP up for grabs and it’s free to enter then what kind of message does that send Turbine? You want pvp to be better? Maybe try doing something about it. Come out and support the Congo Bowl… worst thing that could happen is that you will have a good time.

Sounds pretty epic but I'm far too lazy to roll new toons on another server when I'm going for completionist on Orien

[McFlay]

It can still be a high save. Also immunities. Such as 500+hp immune to PWS, 600+ immune to PWK.

PVP vendor who you can buy SR45 or +10 Profane AC or Evasion Buff cookie from would also be very nice plat sink and also help balance the game.

I'm kinda confused as to why you think selling buffs that screw non-casters over in pvp even more would be a good thing. Last I checked you could already get enough ac to be unhittable 95% of the time vs players anyhow. Evasion cost a 2 level splash, which is a trade off for most builds. Take your capstone, or take evasion. I'd hate to see capstoned evasion fvs and sorcs in pvp.

But, I would agree PWS is lame in pvp. Its scaled to inflated mob hp so when you apply it to players its broken. If it was like 0-100hp for a long stun, 100-200 for a medium stun, 200-300 for a short stun, and 300+ was immune I woudlnt have any issues with it, but when it amounts to pws = win, I think everyone not looking for an easy win button would agree its stupid. I couldn't even count how many times I go to play around in the brawl area, and beat up on an arcane a few times, then they simply resort to pws, pws, pws. Its like they don't want to use it until they realize its the only way to win. At that point, all you can really do is log on your arcane and try to pws them first...fun?

Dots are pretty much on the same level. Its just not fun when someone can drop down in a brawl, slap a dot on you, then run to safety and all you can do is stand there and wait to die. You can't physically dodge them like you can do to a lot of ranged spells, you can't save vs them, and you can fully expect every caster in pvp areas to have maximize and empower on at all times to insure you will die easily to a dot. Wouldn't bug me one bit if dots were uncastable in pvp like BB an FW.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Ok, with the new rules, that's going to be interesting to watch.

Turbine designed a game based on D&D. D&D is a Roleplaying Game, that is a cooperative team game.
It's not a game where the objective is to kill other players, the objective is to cooperate with them to reach objectives.
PvP is not missing from the game, it's there, in a lot of taverns, but the only one used for PvP is the Lobster Brawling Pit, all the other Tavern PvP Zone are empty.

You nailed it, in a nutshell.

There is such a minority that gives a **** about pvp (I'd say less then 1% of the playerbase) that I'd hate to see the devs waste any more time on it.

Id rather all dev time spent on what the vast majority of the community have been doing all along, and thats PvE.

Save pvp for those brainless mmos where epeens are as common as drinking water, those mmos that were built intricately around pvp from the very beginning. D&D, as well as DDO, were not created to pvp, its unbalanced nature prohibits or greatly diminishes the core concept of an even playing field.

[McFlay]

You nailed it, in a nutshell.

There is such a minority that gives a **** about pvp (I'd say less then 1% of the playerbase) that I'd hate to see the devs waste any more time on it.

Id rather all dev time spent on what the vast majority of the community have been doing all along, and thats PvE.

Save pvp for those brainless mmos where epeens are as common as drinking water, those mmos that were built intricately around pvp from the very beginning. D&D, as well as DDO, were not created to pvp, its unbalanced nature prohibits or greatly diminishes the core concept of an even playing field.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=371071

kthx

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=371071

kthx

That really doesnt apply. My comment is a direct response to another poster, and in line with the comment posed by the OP. Cord was talking about people harassing others who PvP. That's not the goal of my post.

Thank you very much.

[Flavilandile]

The uninterest in PvP is mainly due to the very limited current PvP system and the imbalance between classes. With easily accessible game modes, which do not require making groups yourself, and with interesting rewards, you will see that this vast minority will quickly become larger. I think this may even become a quarter of the playerbase, and even more depending on the rewards. If there is some way to track stats (kills, deaths, damage done), then you will get a very competitive environment.

The inbalance between the classes is inherent to D&D and will not be modified... unless Turbine wants to kill the game. ( as such a change in the game would drive people away in mass )

Just go check the forums about class balance suggestion and see how much Flak the person that made such a suggestion received.

As it has already been stated : PvP should not give any reward at all. ( except e-peen waving through the long promised leaderboard eventually )

[McFlay]

That really doesnt apply. My comment is a direct response to another poster, and in line with the comment posed by the OP. Cord was talking about people harassing others who PvP. That's not the goal of my post.

Thank you very much.

Your post had nothing at all to do with the OP, you made 3 points in it.

1. Nobody cares about pvp
2. Its a waste of dev time
3. People who enjoy pvp have found some strange loot named "epeen"

If you bothered to read cord's sticky he says right in it "Please allow players who want to discuss PvP in DDO to have a place to do so. Harassing people for liking PvP, or leading threads off-topic by making posts which amount to, "I don't like PvP and don't think it should be in the game" can be an infractable offense."

All your thread amounted to was you don't like pvp, since you added nothing constructive at all to the thread. Go troll somewhere else.

[loki_3369]

Majority of players? Can I get hard data on that? Of the 40 or so people I know in game. There is one that's a PvPer. The other 39 hate even going into the Lobster. 1/40 does not a majority make.

/Semi-wallo'text "You shall not pass!"



Without taking a full poll of every player on every server, neither of you are totally correct. A "majority" is completely relative to you and the social group you are a part of. The forum population =/= in game population as well, in case someone had planned on using that as a counter-argument.

Shadow, I'd like to see the pvp system changed. Somewhat similar to your/Thirt's idea(s). I don't think there should be any exceptional loot that comes from pvp. Or perhaps as someone's suggested (perhaps even yourself, too tired to look through it) keep the loot that comes from pvp only usable in pvp. I like the idea of giving pvp it's own instance.

As for balance, I don't really see a balance issue within pvp. I know people cry about casters a lot, but I've never really had a problem taking casters down on my main. The cheap people use cheap tactics. There will always be cheap people. That's why I turn into the cheapest person you'll ever find in the Lobster- once someone does it to me of course . When you get into the arena with people who aren't complete ******rs, it is quite fun. It's a great distraction from the constant raiding/epics we do.

I don't think it would hinder any of the pve "progress" they would make. I mean, how hard is it to buff one thing and nerf two others? So the "oh noez pvp get in way of pve developemint!1!!!!11" argument really doesn't apply. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinions of course.

Oh, also. For the "DDO is based off of D&D and meant to be a co-op game", etc. The same could be said of Battlefield 3 and most other pvp games (not that I want DDO to become pvp based). Completely different genre, I know. Theory is still the same. Generally you work with your team to defeat the other team. Well, the good players do anyway. I know what you meant though. Pc vs. npc. Just trying to give an example of how a pvp system could also be considered co-op. Most games with decent pvp systems (which aren't 1v1) usually involve cooperation and team tactics. Poor example, I know. Too tired/don't care enough to try to come up with a better example... Sorry.


Good ideas, along with some bad, but unfortunately I doubt Turbine will ever give us any better pvp.

Would be kind of cool if they made an entirely pvp based game with similar combat systems... It would also be nice if they outsourced their customer service to somewhere that speaks logic.

Much longer than I had intended this to be.... Snarfle snarfle.

[Uska]

ZERO dev time for pvp please.

[keveniaftw]

You nailed it, in a nutshell.

There is such a minority that gives a **** about pvp (I'd say less then 1% of the playerbase) that I'd hate to see the devs waste any more time on it.

Id rather all dev time spent on what the vast majority of the community have been doing all along, and thats PvE.

Save pvp for those brainless mmos where epeens are as common as drinking water, those mmos that were built intricately around pvp from the very beginning. D&D, as well as DDO, were not created to pvp, its unbalanced nature prohibits or greatly diminishes the core concept of an even playing field.

I used to pvp alot while waiting for quests (stopped after U9 inbalance to pvp, can't blame devs for that tho), and all I can say is that people who say a very small minority pvp are SO wrong
Yes there are a lot the same players
Yes you see every day new players
Yes the seperate rooms are being used more, far more often than you can imagine so:

/Sarcasm on
I want EVERY non pvp'er, who of course mostly makes non-pvp'er friends (especially haters) get some statistic proof in an experiment with COMPLETELY random players (like 500) to proof that pvp is not being used. Ppl in all level ranges, and split in 3 categories: 'Yes I pvp occasionally', 'No I don't' and 'I didn't know there is pvp'
Any cheating on this (trying to influence) will be shown as a doubt that the hater is wrong
/Sarcasm off

Because generally, haters statements make as much sense as

/Sarcasm on
Only 4% of the player database runs the flag quests of necro I, remove these competely
Don't update paladins, these are only used in 2% of the existing builds
Please remove coal chamber, 99% of the players hate it (Ok, this might be right ;-) )
/Sarcasm off
And to proof these haters are generally speaking hyocrites
Oh, and also only 1% or less of the players ever run epic LoB atm, but that has another reason. You want it removed too haters? No? Why not? Oooh, you're one of this 1% yourself. Well yeah: If it is only played by 1%, then 2 possibilies
right?
1) You are not of this 1%, it must be removed OR no dev time wasted
2) You are one of the 1%, yeah, it must be improved, and don't dare to remove it.

Feel free to neg rep me away, I look at it as a sign where you DO know I'm right

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

all I can say is that people who say a very small minority pvp are SO wrong

Im going to assume you meant that people are "SO" wrong who say pvp are a small minority of the population.

Ok, go to a bar... heck go to all the bars... add up those you see pvping. Then add up all the people LFG and already in groups. What do you get?

Dude, sorry for the newsbreak, but its not even close.

Stroll over the the PvP thread. 'Bout the only action there is a that recommends to limit chat functions of pvpers to a private channel. I think thats brilliant.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

ZERO dev time for pvp please.

Right on the shnozolee!

[Mastikator]

Im going to assume you meant that people are "SO" wrong who say pvp are a small minority of the population.

Ok, go to a bar... heck go to all the bars... add up those you see pvping. Then add up all the people LFG and already in groups. What do you get?

Dude, sorry for the newsbreak, but its not even close.

Stroll over the the PvP thread. 'Bout the only action there is a that recommends to limit chat functions of pvpers to a private channel. I think thats brilliant.

It's not totally uncommon for there to be multiple instances of The Wayward Lobster. Less now than it used to be.
Also worth noting that just because it may be occationally empty doesn't mean that there aren't PVPers online, PVPers need to do quests too. I spend less time in the lobster than doing quests, doesn't mean I'm not a lobsterdweller.