Evasion Barbarian

[SoSoh]

Can I get feedback on this naked melee build? Its going to be for a static group with no twinking and no AH, so tomes will be rare and probably late.

I think he could make a useful amount of reflex saves with:
9 base (according to my character planner)
+5 Racial Spell Save
+2 from 14 starting dex (at the expense of 2 con)
+3 from +6 dex item
+1 Haste
+4 Resistance
+4 Morale
+2 Luck
+4 Holy Aura (thanks MrMechMan)
________
34 with gear and buffs
40 with Improved Uncanny Dodge turned on

The static group already has a trapper, so I'm skipping those skills. Is his spot skill too low to be useful for spotting enemies? I realize the lack of intimidate is a glaring omission, but I've never found it very useful without a reasonable charisma.

The most closely related thread is http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=255015, but its from 2010.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
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Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(18 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 450
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 11
Will: 5

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 23                   23
Dexterity            14                 14                   14
Constitution         18                 18                   23
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma              6                  6                    6

                   Ending           
                 Base Skills        
Skills           (Level 20)         
Balance              25             
Bluff                -2             
Concentration         6             
Diplomacy            -2             
Disable Device      n/a             
Haggle                2             
Heal                  1             
Hide                  2             
Intimidate           -2             
Jump                 12             
Listen               -1             
Move Silently         2             
Open Lock            n/a            
Perform             n/a             
Repair               -1             
Search               -1             
Spot                 17             
Swim                 10             
Tumble                6             
Use Magic Device    n/a             

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+6)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Rage


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Indomitable Will


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Tireless Rage


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III

[OldCoaly]

no twinking

(quoted to remind others)

Is his spot skill too low to be useful for spotting enemies?

I don't think your Spot will be useful as you are leveling up. Once you've got 11 ranks and you equip some decent +Spot gear, it will be useful.

If you'd like to have a useful Spot, consider dumping Balance and instead putting a full point into Spot each level until you get to 11 (or whatever your target is) and at that point ceasing to invest in Spot and back-filling Balance.

Full Disclosure, I'm a huge fan of Spot. I find Spot to be much more useful in levels 1-11 than Balance.

With +6 Reflex Save from Improved Uncanny Dodge and +5 racial spell save bonus, I thought he could make a useful amount of evasion saves. He gets +3 reflex from his 6 dex at the expense of 2 con.

11 Base
+5 resistance (item)
+3 Dex Stat Item
+4 GH
+1 Haste
=========
24 Reflex Save

If the spell save bonus applies to the current attack, your Reflex will be relevant for a lot of content.

Between Barbarian Rage, Death Frenzy, Regular Frenzy, Damage Boost and your two Cleaves, you've already got a lot of timers to manage.

If you can remember to activate your Improved Uncanny Dodge boost, it'll help a lot, but I suspect that it will be something you activate after you discover that you should have clicked it earlier, and that you won't often find it useful during active combat.

no twinking

(quoted again to remind others)

[Ilindith]

Anything 20 or higher will usually be useful on saves against spells. You should reach that easily with buffs and gear.
I wouldn't trust it too much on traps though.

[Doomcrew]

Maybe invest a little in Open Lock early, with good items and +5 tools,
it will be some what useful through the life of the character.

[Cauthey]

CON is great, don't get me wrong. But, if you want to make good use of that Evasion, you might want to try squeaking in a little more DEX. A couple more successful saves with no damage will make up for the somewhat lower HPs.

I'm running a Warforged Barbarian (first TR) with 2 levels of rogue. I think I managed to get his DEX up to 14 base at character roll up, but I still miss my reflex saves a lot (+2 DEX Tome, no DEX item though).

*shrug* Take it for what it's worth.

[SoSoh]

Maybe invest a little in Open Lock early, with good items and +5 tools,
it will be some what useful through the life of the character.

Its a static group with a full-time trapper, so I won't use those skills. I'll edit the first post to mention that.

[SoSoh]

CON is great, don't get me wrong. But, if you want to make good use of that Evasion, you might want to try squeaking in a little more DEX.
*shrug* Take it for what it's worth.

I'm nervous about losing more con. A guildie has suggested putting all level ups into con, so I'm already low by his standards. From reading the forums, I see a strong bias toward level ups in strength though. Any advice on the level ups?

[Ilindith]

Its a static group with a full-time trapper, so I won't use those skills. I'll edit the first post to mention that.

--Edit: Nevermind, didn't think that one much xD --

[Phidius]

I know you said you'll be in a static group with a trapper, but 4 skill points in your first level of rogue is enough to open every non-epic lock in the game (I don't do heavy epics, so I can't speak to that part).

Personally, I think 23 ranks in intimidate will be more useful than Balance. As a raging Barbarian, you should have sufficient Strength to avoid needing to make a Balance check against trips and such.

Now, if you're planning to run a lot of Titans, I'd say otherwise. However, I can't imagine this would be the case.

UMD would be hawt, too... have you considered putting those ability points into Int and taking Insightful Reflexes instead?

[Bardgellor]

Can't mix monk and barb... monks have to be lawful and barbs have to be non-lawful

[MRMechMan]

If you want evasion on a barb, gotta go rogue rather than monk.

Look into the following items/effects to boost reflex saves:

+10 reflex "madness item"-ML16 (said no twinking but its BTA, and a pretty big boost-just a thought)
+4 Holy aura spell stacks with everything ML15clr 16fvs
+2 exp reflex (GS item or occult set-ok, kinda twink gear)

If you are sprinting through a trap or something can equip the Eswashbuckler (ML20) for

+4 insight all saves
+1 (+2 exp dex)

As for skills, spot is only OK i have found, and OL doesn't really need more than 4 ranks anyway...UMD is your best bet for sure, and a huge part of why splashing rogue is useful.

Even if rage disallows use of most UMDable items, being able to NOT rage and self heal is situationally incredibly powerful.

[MRMechMan]

I know you said you'll be in a static group with a trapper, but 4 skill points in your first level of rogue is enough to open every non-epic lock in the game (I don't do heavy epics, so I can't speak to that part).

Personally, I think 23 ranks in intimidate will be more useful than Balance. As a raging Barbarian, you should have sufficient Strength to avoid needing to make a Balance check against trips and such.

Now, if you're planning to run a lot of Titans, I'd say otherwise. However, I can't imagine this would be the case.

UMD would be hawt, too... have you considered putting those ability points into Int and taking Insightful Reflexes instead?

I very much doubt he can fit insightful reflexes.

Even if he could, without int item/exp int/levels to int/high starting int etc...just isn't worth it. Awesome on a wizard with 40+ int, pretty mediocre choice for a feat-starved class that has no other reason to pump int.

[Ilindith]

Can't mix monk and barb... monks have to be lawful and barbs have to be non-lawful

oops you're right, had a little derp moment there

[SoSoh]

+10 reflex "madness item"-ML16 (said no twinking but its BTA, and a pretty big boost-just a thought)
+4 Holy aura spell stacks with everything ML15clr 16fvs
+2 exp reflex (GS item or occult set-ok, kinda twink gear)

I've added Holy Aura to my original post. In the back of my mind, I might get +1 exceptional and combine that with +1 Rogue Dex Enhancement. +2 exceptional is a little fancy though. I'm not familiar with how hard the madness items are to get.

[Chai]

Roll a human barbarian instead which gets one more feat. Put the 14 into int instead and dump the dex. Use the extra feat for insightful reflexes. Now you have the same reflex save, and more skill points for rogue skills.

Human versatility has a + to saves clicky which stacks with improved uncanny dodge, for +11 to reflex saves total.

Moar damage boosts.

[TheDjinnFor]

I'm nervous about losing more con. A guildie has suggested putting all level ups into con, so I'm already low by his standards.

A barbarian needs to be able to hit things more than he needs 40-60 extra hp. Put level ups in strength, I still miss things unless I drop power attack.

Evasion barbarians are certainly viable although keep in mind that losing out on the capstone is a significant loss to strength as a THF. I recommend going TWF in that case.

Regarding your reflex save breakdown, note that you can get +5 resistance bonus. In fact with cannith crafting you can get a +6 to reflex save.

9 base (according to my character planner)
+5 Racial Spell Save
+2 from 14 starting dex (at the expense of 2 con)
+3 from +6 dex item
+1 Haste
+5 Resistance
+4 Morale
+2 Luck
+1 Ship
= 32 with gear and buffs

That's a really good reflex save for most of the game, enough to no-fail against most spells in nonepics and normal (but not hard or elite) raid bosses.

Ideally you'll be able to sqeak in, say, a +7 dex item and a +3 dex tome (something I have on my barbarian) for an extra +2 reflex.

Personally, I think 23 ranks in intimidate will be more useful than Balance. As a raging Barbarian, you should have sufficient Strength to avoid needing to make a Balance check against trips and such.

Trips are one thing but spells like cometfall still knock you down if you fail a reflex save. Air elementals are annoying too, and even with high strength they can knock you down through sheer attrition i.e. a pack of them rushes you down and waits till you roll a 1.

Intimidate, on the other hand, is never valuable unless you spec for it.

[Cauthey]

I'm nervous about losing more con. A guildie has suggested putting all level ups into con, so I'm already low by his standards. From reading the forums, I see a strong bias toward level ups in strength though. Any advice on the level ups?

The only time I would do level-ups into CON would be if I was making a specialized HP tank, and I was specifically trying to hit 1000+ HPs. 18 CON is great. But, with all of the racial and class enhancements you have action to, ticking down to 16 won't be wussy. Still, I am hesitant to tell someone to dial down on CON. The facts are that CON is important.

Even if you could squeak in a little DEX, I would still concentrate level-ups into STR. After all, you're going to want to pummel stuff. I added my original comment only because it has become my observation that I can't "count" on my Evasion like a true rogue or a true rogue-splashed DEX character can. Metalbone often DOES evade, but I'm usually very tentative when I'm required to count on it (Gooooo TRAPBLASTS! ). He'd do a fair bit better if I gave him a DEX item.

I know you said you'll be in a static group with a trapper, but 4 skill points in your first level of rogue is enough to open every non-epic lock in the game (I don't do heavy epics, so I can't speak to that part).

Personally, I think 23 ranks in intimidate will be more useful than Balance. As a raging Barbarian, you should have sufficient Strength to avoid needing to make a Balance check against trips and such.

Now, if you're planning to run a lot of Titans, I'd say otherwise. However, I can't imagine this would be the case.

UMD would be hawt, too... have you considered putting those ability points into Int and taking Insightful Reflexes instead?

If this character will ALWAYS static, then yeah - there's no point. But, as Phidius said... even a little bit of Open Lock can go a long way with items.

I will HEAVILY echo that UMD is hawt. Totally hawt. Metalbone is level 17 now, and can situationally scroll reconstruct himself. I've got to get him a stack of heal scrolls... but he can do that, too. Granted, it take a GH and my GS Con-Op +CHA skills item to do it. But, the versatility is terrific. I have Don1966 to thank for that.

(max UMD, seriously, when you level up start at UMD and put points there first then put what is left elsewhere.)

*snip*

with that umd and a few easy to get items, golden cartoche, charisma item and maybe a heroism pot i was able to use heal and teleport scrolls along with a lot of other things.

Here's the thread where I worked up Metalbone's Barb life, should you wish to peruse: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=355356. He is QUITE EXCEPTIONAL at trapping (I know that's not necessarily the OP's goal).

[OldCoaly]

Roll a human barbarian instead which gets one more feat. Put the 14 into int instead and dump the dex. Use the extra feat for insightful reflexes. Now you have the same reflex save, and more skill points for rogue skills.

Human versatility has a + to saves clicky which stacks with improved uncanny dodge, for +11 to reflex saves total.

Moar damage boosts.

The OP has repeatedly implied that his focus is on Reflex Saves Vs Spell damage.

All of his reflex save calculations include the racial bonus to save vs spells.

This could be because his perception of the importance of saving vs spell damage is colored by the fact that he "mostly plays casters", or perhaps he has planned his encounters before hand and has chosen a path that in which reflex saves vs. spells will account for the majority of reflex saves.

Choosing Human is not compatible with this implied goal.


Human Versatility does give boosts that can use a different timer than class boosts, but Human Vers Damage Boost does not stack with Barbarian Damage Boost.

As long as you are aware of this and plan to use it after the Barb boosts run out and not at the concurrently with them, you won't be disappointed.

[SoSoh]

Roll a human barbarian instead which gets one more feat. Put the 14 into int instead and dump the dex. Use the extra feat for insightful reflexes. Now you have the same reflex save, and more skill points for rogue skills.

Tempting, but I'd lose +5 passive racial bonus to spell saves and some HP I think.

[Kinerd]

I'm nervous about losing more con. A guildie has suggested putting all level ups into con, so I'm already low by his standards. From reading the forums, I see a strong bias toward level ups in strength though. Any advice on the level ups?

Especially in a no twink group, it's not the barb's HP you have to worry about. Level-ups in Con is overkill, and it's super overkill when combined with dwarf and scads of enhancements. Are you sure your guildie wasn't just messing with you?