Bluebar Self-Healing TWF Kensei II DPS Fighter

[Macrovox]

12/6/2 Fighter/Favored Soul/Evasion

The goal of this build is to knock out a few fighter past lives without having to rely on a healer or scrolls to do it. DPS will come from speed boosted Kensei Khopeshes and reflective damage. Healing will come from a regenerating bluebar (GS Con Op & Torc), and land hard with healing amp (DT, Paly PLs x3 & Human amp) Fvs enhancements and ardor clickies.

At the moment I have it narrowed down to the following two possibilities and am leaning toward 12/6/2 Fighter/Fvs/Rogue. I'm still a month or so from finishing my third life as a Paly who has a similar playstyle, which works very well. So I'm seeking comment on feasibility and possible tweekage.

Note: I recognize that the current level order effectively eliminates Kensei II before TRing again. This is unfortunate, is it critical?


12/6/2 Fighter/Favored Soul/Monk

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 393
Spell Points: 450 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    29
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                9                    11
Charisma              9                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    14
Bluff                 0                     3
Concentration         7                    23
Diplomacy             0                     3
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            0                     3
Jump                  7                    17
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  4                     9
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      2                    12

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Favored Soul)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 7 (Favored Soul)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Casting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) III
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

12/6/2 Fighter/Favored Soul/Rogue - for some S/A damage, better skill point & possibly OL.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 435 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    26
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    19
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         5                    20
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        5                     6
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            3                     4
Jump                  8                    16
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             7                    15
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                     6
Spot                  3                     4
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                7                     7
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Favored Soul)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 7 (Favored Soul)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

[wax_on_wax_off]

Kensei II is really nice but I don't see that you will get it before level 20 on just about any build.

Accepting that, there's no reason to get more fighter levels than what is absolutely necessary to qualify for the PL; I'd suggest stopping at 7 (which should work in most cases due to F being close to the beginning of the alphabet ...)

7 fighter/7 x/6 y leaves a lot of possibilities depending on gear and playstyle:
Ranger: Tempest I (+10% offhand), Feats (ITWF/Manyshot), Ram's Might (+2 strength, +2 damage) makes this one of the best 6 level splashes.
Monk: AC, Stunning Fist, Light buffs/Shadowfade, healing amp, what's not to love?
Artificer: BEI, weapon infusions, UMD, W&SM; very strong choice
FvS: AoVI
Cleric: RSI
Rogue: 7 rogue is really nice if you have a strategy to land SA such as stunning fist, improved deception or radiance weapons (4d6+9 SA*1.5 for helpless from stunning fist is amazeballs).

I get that you're not keen on scrolls but with decent heal amp and vampiric wraps with cure critical wand to fall back on ... makes for a very sturdy, high AC, fast moving character with an almost never fail success rate stunning fist for 1.5x to all damage.

[Macrovox]

Good input – thank you. You’re right about Kensei II. In fact with banking levels I technically won’t see level 19 or 20. So, the only way I can see fitting in another PrE is if it comes from the healing class, currently at level 14.

The goal is bluebar healing. I don’t mind using scrolls I just don’t want to have to rely on them. Rangers don’t get heal spells until lvl 8, and then only CLW. Paladins get CLW sooner but still really don’t work as healers w/o also becoming the main class. So that means I will need some levels of Cleric, FvS or possibly Bard.

Healing Options:

Originally I choose Fvs 1) thinking it meshed well with the melee focus of the build 2) because the added spell points couldn’t hurt and 3) because I mostly just need CMW & CSW. However their PrE is probably not useful here (in fact I didn’t even plan to take it).

With Cleric I will get the same BAB as Fvs but one less feat, more spells but less spell points and a marginally useful PrE. I don’t think Clr outweighs Fvs.

Bard is a little interesting and I hadn’t initially given it consideration. It gives the same BAB and one less feat than Fvs. However, it has a significant reduction in spell points. And, bards don’t have access to CSW until level 7. On the positive side it does come with haste, rage, one tier of bard song and Warchanter. I still think the advantage goes to Fvs. (For one thing this means 11 Ftr/7Bard/2 Evasion).

Other Melee Optoins:

I don’t know that I would be able to take advantage of the Monk levels. Stunning fists don’t work with Khopesh and neither does AC for that matter. Plus this build counts on reflective damage so AC is counterproductive.

Extra 5 levels of Rogue: I don’t have radiance weapons and will not be investing 6 LDSs on a pass-tru life, but still 3d6 extra S/A when you can get it is nice. But again, the build play style is partially based on reflective damage which means agro, which of course means no S/A. What I do like about the idea of 7 levels of rogue is that it will open the possibility of doing traps. Trap bonus = faster leveling.

Thoughts?

[Impaqt]

6th level "Blue Bar" healing after level 10 or so is pretty pointless. You'll burn throughyour mana just topping yourslef off between fights. Trying to blue bar during fights will net you nothing unless you not only max rank Concentration, your gonna need to dedicate a slot or 2 to and enhancements.

If you want to do self sufficient fighter, its hard to be Half-ELf w/ Cleric dilettante. Heal scrolls and access to all healing wands.

no reason to go 18 STR if its just a TR template either. those 6 build point will be way more usefull elsewhere.

[Macrovox]

Impaqt – thanks for weighing in. I’ve followed many of your rogue builds with interest for a long time.

My current life is 18/2 paly/monk. With GS Concordant Op & a Torc, Paly PL and other healing amp, devotion enhancements and Ardor clickies I have no trouble healing myself midfight – none. So I am pretty confident I’ll have no trouble with the same gear and 6 levels of Fvs.

You’ll note that i've invested heavily in concentration. And, with torc and con op procs I rarely drop below 50% spell points. So the occasional fizzle isn’t that big of a deal. Should it become one, I can fall back on pots/wands/scrolls/mana potions.

18 Str: I’m open to suggestions here. I would honestly love to hear your thoughts.

My current thinking on starting stats:

Wis - my highest spell is 3rd and I’ll easily hit 13 with gear and tomes, so no trouble casting.

Char - this would give me some more spell points and better UMD, but I’m not sure either are critical.

Intel - could be bumped up I guess but it’s already starting 12 with +2 tome. I’m not sure there’s a big reason to increase that either.


Note: tomes have obvioulsy already been eaten.

[Macrovox]

Artificer: BEI, weapon infusions, UMD, W&SM; very strong choice.

I just realized I missed the Arty suggestion.

The BAB and number of feats are equal to Fvs. Hit points (I forgot to mention this about Bards too) are lower and the spell points are 1/2 of Fvs. The weapon enhancements would be a nice bonus and Arty would also likely open the possibility of traps. But, I’m not sure how well CMW & CSW Admixtures work. Also, I don’t see Arty enhancements for increasing healing power (other than Maximize of course).

As for the Battle Engineer: +2 crit damage and +2 weapon enhancement are really great. But that means I’ve got to spend AP on crossbow damage & attack (prereqs). This is not a deal breaker but I’m a little leery of the healing ability and the significant reduction in spell points. So again I’m inclined to stick with Fvs.

[Nyvn]

My current life is 18/2 paly/monk. With GS Concordant Op & a Torc, Paly PL and other healing amp, devotion enhancements and Ardor clickies I have no trouble healing myself midfight – none. So I am pretty confident I’ll have no trouble with the same gear and 6 levels of Fvs.

You healing will be less. You'll have fewer caster levels, and only have access to Life Magic II. You're looking at 90 - 100 hp before haling amp.

[Macrovox]

That is a good point. I will lose 9 hit points of healing from caster level 6 vs 15 (Heals 3d6+6 hp plus 1 point per caster level (max 15)) and Life magic II (20%) vs. Paly devotion IV (40%) is also a downgrade. However, Fvs have Prayer of incredible life (3% chance of 1.75% heals) which paladins do not.

I think you’re right the healing may be a little less effective, but paly healing is more than adequate. I think there is room for the downgrade and I’ll still have scrolls, wands & pots to fill gaps.

By the way, 90-100 seems a little low. The 75% from ardor clickies and Maximize alone should be able to get in the 90-100 range before adding Fvs enhancements. And, even if 90-100 pre-crit heal is the right number, after filtering that through my healing amp (Paly PL x3, DT and human recovery II) we’re still talking about pretty significant heals.

[Macrovox]

I took a shot at the math; you’re right without Incredible Life, the heals are going to be quite a bit smaller. I may need to wear my Tempest healing amp instead of Salt guard (that would make my Non-crit CSW range 94 to 210).

The numbers:
12/6/2 Ftr/Fvs/Evasion build:
CSW (12 to 27) x Life magic (1.1 x 2) x Ardor (1.75) x Maximize (2) x Paly PLs (1.05 x 3) x DT (1.1) x Human Recovery (1.1 x 2) = 78 to 176.
With Incredible Life procs = 137 to 308.

18/2 Paly/Monk:
CSW (18 to 33) x Paly Devotion IV (1.1 x 4) x Ardor (1.75) x Maximize (2) x Paly PLs (1.05 x 2) x DT (1.1) x Human Recovery (1.1 x 2) = 135 to 248


Edited math error (Paly CSW should be 3d6+15 not 3d6+18)

[wax_on_wax_off]

I took a shot at the math; you’re right without Incredible Life, the heals are going to be quite a bit smaller. I may need to wear my Tempest healing amp instead of Salt guard (that would make my Non-crit CSW range 94 to 210).

The numbers:
12/6/2 Ftr/Fvs/Evasion build:
CSW (12 to 27) x Life magic (1.1 x 2) x Ardor (1.75) x Maximize (2) x Paly PLs (1.05 x 3) x DT (1.1) x Human Recovery (1.1 x 2) = 78 to 176.
With Incredible Life procs = 137 to 308.

18/2 Paly/Monk:
CSW (18 to 33) x Paly Devotion IV (1.1 x 4) x Ardor (1.75) x Maximize (2) x Paly PLs (1.05 x 2) x DT (1.1) x Human Recovery (1.1 x 2) = 135 to 248


Edited math error (Paly CSW should be 3d6+15 not 3d6+18)

Formula is: base*(enhancements+potency)*(maximise+empower)=out put

So, 22.5*(1+.2+.75)*(1+1)=87.75 average.
Heal amp: 1.05*1.05*1.1*1.2=1.46

Total=127.7, not exactly stellar.

I'd revisit the cleric option, you can get free maximised, empowered, empower healed radiant servant bursts (costs 2 extra feats but):

11.5*(1+.2+.75)*(1+1+.5+.5)=67 (with 14 base charisma you'll have enough of these to blast through most undead content).

Also you get +1 CL on cure spells (included in burst calc there).

You can go up to level 7 cleric getting Cure Critical Wounds, Divine Power, Life Magic III and ... Recitation?

[EpiKagEMO]

IMO, it seems like a weaker version of a paladin :/
Even twf :3

[Nyvn]

IMO, it seems like a weaker version of a paladin :/
Even twf :3

Which is fine if you're wanting to knock out a fighter PL and have some self healing. It's just not as nice as the OP originally thought, but it should do the trick.

[Macrovox]

I'd revisit the cleric option, you can get free maximised, empowered, empower healed radiant servant bursts (costs 2 extra feats but):

11.5*(1+.2+.75)*(1+1+.5+.5)=67 (with 14 base charisma you'll have enough of these to blast through most undead content).

Also you get +1 CL on cure spells (included in burst calc there).

You can go up to level 7 cleric getting Cure Critical Wounds, Divine Power, Life Magic III and ... Recitation?

You missed one paly past life =) Heal amp: 1.05*1.05*1.05*1.1*1.2=1.53, for an average of 134 hps per CSW.

Still a fighter healing himself for 134 hp as often as needed IS exactly stellar – that’s the beauty of it. As the spell points regen, cures can be tossed to keep health up. This interrupts the attack sequence a bit but not as much as backing out, switching to a heal scroll, casting, reequipping and stepping back in. I think it is very workable.

That cleric option does not cost 2 extra feats; it costs 3. Clerics get one fewer than Fvs. Consider that and the fact that Cleric spell points are 1/2 a Favored Soul's and Radiant Bursts start to look pretty expensive.

Cleric 7 does mean CCW and Life Magic III, but at the likely cost of evasion. With this build melee damage is good; magic damage is bad. Evasion is a big part of what I believe will make this work.

[Macrovox]

By the way, this discussion is very helpful to me. Thank you for all the comments so far.

[Nyvn]

That cleric option does not cost 2 extra feats; it costs 3. Clerics get one fewer than Fvs.

Wait, what? You need to check your facts here. FVS get faith related feats;Favored by (your faith), Child of (your faith), etc. However those aren't regular feats.

[Macrovox]

Hmm? I would have sworn I saw Maximize should up as a class feat on the planner. Still that takes nothing from the point I was making; 2 feats, 1/2 the spell points, and bursts landing for 1/2 the value of CSW does not make a strong argument for Cleric over Favored Soul.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Hmm? I would have sworn I saw Maximize should up as a class feat on the planner. Still that takes nothing from the point I was making; 2 feats, 1/2 the spell points, and bursts landing for 1/2 the value of CSW does not make a strong argument for Cleric over Favored Soul.

Not half, that's before heal amp is factored in so it becomes 102 damage healed per burst. Possibly one of the most important things about this healing is that it is not interruptible which is a major issue when healing in melee.

11 fighter/7 cleric/2 rogue works fine. 8 fighter/7 cleric/5 rogue works too. 10 fighter/8 cleric/2 rogue is an option too. A point in favour of FvS is that you could have 9/9/2 or 7/7/6 due to the order issues.

You get 3+charisma modifier turns/day+enhancements+items+feats. With extra turning III (6 AP), 14 base charisma, +2 tome, +2 ship buff, +6 item you're at 13 turns/day which is equivalent to ~1300 damage healed or 10 maximised CSW or 370 SP (before efficient maximise is included). Also, these turns regenerate at 1 every 2 minutes so it will be more than that.

Vs undead the burst becomes a 8*4.5*(1+.75+.3)*(1+1+.5+.5)=221 damage AoE nuke (at cleric level 7).

SP wise, at level 6, cleric has 260 while FvS has 435. Add double returns from archmagi/cunning trinket/GS SP item and the different expands a bit but I still think the cleric will have more healing power.

Going back to the biggest thing for me though: bursts can't be interrupted like CSW spell can. With that in mind, cleric wins.

[Macrovox]

Wax – once again you’ve given me much to think about. But, I don’t have time to look into it this morning.

Off the cuff I’m thinking that taking another non-fighter level means (in my case fighter level 10 due to level banking) costs 1 fighter feat (plus the 2 extra meta feats) and ftr haste boost IV. BAB is a wash b/w cleric 7 and fighter 10.

Cleric: Another cost of taking two more metafeats is the cost to cast from a decreased spell point pool. I don’t have time at the moment but I will run the numbers of simply taking empower healing with the Fvs build. I’ll also figure out my actual sp after gear for each build.

In the meantime, thanks for the input.

[karl_k0ch]

Another thread, which aims for similar things, but comes to different conclusions is this: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=333575

[Macrovox]

Thanks - looks interesting. I'll read it this afternoon.

I will say though that I did consider Bard in the thread above. The pros were buffs, songs and warchanter PrE. The cons were much fewer spell points, less hitpoints, and no access to CSW at level 6.