FEEDBACK: Active (clickies) vs Passive abilities

[Combat_Wombat]

Clickies for the most part are fine as long as you aren't have to click them more than twice in whatever you would consider a standard encounter. So far in the game I think there has been a good balance with the exception of the paladin bufs whos casting times are outrageous for the purpose of the buffs.

[sweez]

I guess that's a long way of saying I feel it has to be an equal balance so that there is some player skill involved but not so much so that it would put off all the people that don't like FPS / twitch games but still love DDO.

-JJ

Since DDO operates in what is basically a FPS/twitch game engine, making it any less so would be a horrible mistake.

[Gratch]

I like casters, I like melee.

The only thing I mostly HATE about the game (in this respect) are clickies that lock-up and/or slowdown the client to create pure annoyance.

Looking at you: House P Trinket and almost all the spell point regen items.

Is just REALLY annoying. There's already a 6s lockout on using one item after another. No need to cast double-slow on me for 3-4 seconds for some clicky things.

Done.

[Krelar]

I don't know if I would say I love them but I don't mind attack abilities being clicky. Some I think would be better suited to a toggle like power attack is. I generally prefer boosts to be passive or at least a toggle.

If a boost is going to be a clicky please give it a fast activation and a decent duration (My Paladin is begging you!)

[sweez]

Anyway, to address the OP:

1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.

This. More complexity not only suits the game's engine, but it makes it easier for better informed/better practiced players to excel where less informed/practiced players would merely just be another number.

If more combinations exist, more possible ways to do the same thing will follow, and that will in turn allow better players to find new and fun and efficient ways of doing stuff, instead of everything always being cookie-cutter.

Only really big downside I see to this are the lag issues, which really need to be taken care of for the game's active combat system to really shine. I also believe that a lot of the (especially melee) abilities should be streamlined - the activation times and cooldowns on some of them are just plain painful.

I am perfectly aware that people who aren't especially good at games also pay money to play them though, so I'm doubtful that my opinion will carry any relevance.

[Coldin]

Short version: Several active abilities are good as long as they serve a function, though I prefer passive boosts that enhance existing skills.

Personally, I always prefer passive abilities over active, simply because I prefer focusing more on what's going on in game than what ability is going off cooldown. Overall, I like active abilities to have a purpose, opposed to just being "always click this for more damage". Abilities like trip, sunder, stunning blow, I'm using to perform a specific action. Abilities like the monks elemental attacks I feel like I'm just clicking something that could easily just be a passive ability. (Though I suppose finishing moves give them a bit more purpose)

I think DDO has a relatively good balance right now. Spellcasters kind of get to the point of only needing to use about 10 or so spells to function during combat, so half their spellbook is unneeded, but that's probably a separate issue.

[learst]

My answer would be 3-I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.

I'm not a hoarder with 3 haste clickies, rage clickies etc, 100s of potions, boosts etc. I don't spells, but I ALWAYS forget to use the active skills or clickies I have other than the spell I prepared.

I'm somewhere between 3 and 4. I don't mind a few tactics there or there, but I get tired of having to remember to click a certain button to maintain a proper level of damage.

Also, just because casters have more options (spells to cast) at a certain time, do not confuse that with a "clickie" ability. I'd consider the DoT spells to be a clickie style ability because you have to keep clicking it to maintain DPS. I would not consider a normal spell to be "clickie".

Short version: Several active abilities are good as long as they serve a function, though I prefer passive boosts that enhance existing skills.

Personally, I always prefer passive abilities over active, simply because I prefer focusing more on what's going on in game than what ability is going off cooldown. Overall, I like active abilities to have a purpose, opposed to just being "always click this for more damage". Abilities like trip, sunder, stunning blow, I'm using to perform a specific action. Abilities like the monks elemental attacks I feel like I'm just clicking something that could easily just be a passive ability. (Though I suppose finishing moves give them a bit more purpose)

Sums up my feelings perfectly.

[quijenoth]

I like ability clickies alot on a melee - makes auto attack less tedious.

I especially like patterned abilities (i.e. monk finishing moves) it makes the process less tedious.

Less Tedium in the game is good

I dislike the space taken up by potion/wand/gear swap clickies - Would love to see a potion belt and/or wand bandoleer (in inventory and hotkey form) to make these options more friendly to characters that rely on them more than others.

[Kielbasa]

1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.

After having bought and played a monk to level 20 every other melee class seems drab in comparison. It's like going from black and white to Joseph and the technicolor dream coat. My current problem with boosts right now is that many of them share the same cooldown. This is a problem for example if my ranger wanted to pop energy resistance and sprint boost to run through a fire trap can't do it. Another issue I have is certain monk abilities such as Empty Body and light monk finishers cannot be used in antimagic fields or while madstoned. They are spell like abilities not the actual spell and should not be blocked. I'm sure there where tech limitations before but there are none now so they should be updated and usable in these situations.

Of course not every class needs to be as active as a monk but the more abilities I'm using in combat the more engaging the game feels and the more fun I have playing it.

One thing to keep in mind I had to change the way I play ddo after going through the learning curve of how to play an active monk. The key for me to be able to use a ton of active abilities was to have the thumb buttons on my mouse cycle up and down my hot bars. I only have 4 visable hotbars but I use as many as 10+ in some quests/raids. People without the mouse thumb buttons mapped like this probably don't like playing button mashing classes because the default setup does not work well and clicking to active abilities/spells on your hotbar is hopeless endeavor especially when the game gets laggy.

[esheep]

I like them, they should not be required for success however (least not on normal difficulties).

My main concern is cooldowns, on my barb it seems like I'm piking for 5 seconds when I re-rage/frenzy, I understand quick draw may help this, but show me a pure barbarian that has room for quick draw. This applies to all types of clickies.

Also it is important to keep the (boost) clickies separate, damage boost and sprint boost on a barbarian are on separate counters, but the same timer -- this feels wrong. On the other hand, my acrobat's showtime clicky and haste boost clicky are on independent cooldowns, but the same counter which means that showtime is rarely used.

Also think some form of regenerating the action boost style clickies would be nice...

[Carpone]

I do not like spell caster clickies:

1. There's little to no reason to wear gear with passive spell damage full time, such as Superior Potency VI, when I can just activate my Amrath belt or alchemical weapon clicky before I engage. Even for long fights like Epic Lord of Blades, I have enough clickies to make it through the entire fight doing 75% damage (instead of the static 50% from Superior Potency).

2. With the exception of alchemical weapons, I have to swap in gear to activate the clicky and then swap what I really want to wear back. DDO lacks a good gear set management UI so this process is clunky, especially with the lag associated with gear swapping.

Melee clicky effects (haste boost, damage boost, divine favor past life, fighter past life) are a smooth gameplay experience. My biggest gripe with them is their short duration. 5-7 boosts were fine in shorter raid encounters like Shroud, Abbot, DQ and even ToD, but in longer raids like LOB they really don't factor into the success of encounter.

[Anthios888]

I love tactical in-combat abilities or combat-related debuffs or crowd control, but short buffs get annoying. As someone who will never leave any advantage on the table and who manages these short timers all day long, I wouldn't mind a little bit of a scaling back on the cooldowns, lengthening of durations, or making them tied to other effects.

[Kaytis]

tl; dr; But...

Melee: I always choose passive enhancements/feats over active on melee where I can. I am not a great button pusher. I never trip, sunder, cleave etc. I stopped playing my monk because of the crazy button pushes. I have noticed this though:

PowerAttack must be turned on every time you log in. If Manyshot can be remembered, so can PowerAttack right?

Caster: I honestly don't see any way to avoid clicking or pushing numbers for spells. In fact for some reason I don't have a problem with that on my casters despite my aversion to buttons. But here are a couple things I have noticed for my casters:

1) Gear clicks / equipment swaps take way too long to cool down. So much so that I rarely bother with them unless the situation is dire. I can do as much damage in the time it takes to swap in a superior freeze item and click it and swap it back out, as I would have gained from said action. In fact most mobs would already be dead in the time it took to do that.

2) Caster buffs are an important part of the game. I don't want to downplay them. But after you do the same thing several thousand times, it gets old. I would love a button or macro that aliases to multiple buttons. When I click it, all the others get clicked by themselves in order.

And one other general thing: The toolbars -spawning a new one seems to do the most illogical thing it was humanly possible to come up with. The master bar should stay right where it is, and a new bar with the next unused number should be spawned somewhere. Why on earth does the master bar move and get the next unused number? It makes absolutely no sense.

[Expalphalog]

Classes that requires extensive clicking to maintain a basic level of competence (paladins and monks) is not my kind of character. But I'm happy they are there, for people that like clicking.

This.

The clickie balance right now is perfect. Don't change a thing.

[Malison]

What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

(1) Active combat abilites are good.

When I play classes with few active abilities, I've been known to play a second game at the same time. I know several people who dualbox and actively play both toons. This game needs classes that are capable of micro to hold the attention of players like us.

I do not believe every class needs to be like this. But I am a firm believer that player skill should be a significant factor in a toon's strength.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Divine Might should be made passive.

[karl_k0ch]

I play mainly melees, so this is the bias I bring.

I like active combat abilities with short cool downs a lot. In particular, I do enjoy Wrack Construct on my rogue, Improved Sunder on my Fighter, and Smite as well as Divine Sacrifice on my paladin.

I don't like too much certain middle-lengthy combat buffs, like the active rogue past life feat, divine might and power surge. Keeping an eye on the bar to keep them running can be annoying.

I like lengthy clickies, such as the bard's songs and Haste and Rage.

On my wizard (who is lvl 12 atm), I don't use so many clickie abilties, as I am horrible in managing my spell pool, and I know it. I don't mind using Superior Inferno V clickies on a regular basis to make my firewalls better.

I don't like Barbarian Rage, as it shuts off too many item clickies.

I like it that some classes are quite clickie-depedent, and some other classes can be played without the excessive use of classes. This way, I can pick whatever I feel like.

[Urist]

Personally, I would say that active abilities should be.... active. That is; they should actually do something: trip, search, fireball, etc. Things which just buff abilities, like the AC/damage/to-hit action boosts, I'd prefer to be passive somehow.
I like passive things because I have a terrible memory - especially in the heat of the action.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I gave up on paladin as it felt like I had lots of buttons to mash compared to another DPS class but I wasn't getting any benefit.

A clicky intensive character is harder to play and it should have some sort of DPS advantage at least in some situations (like KotC vs devils).

I love that there is a difference in the amount of clicks that different classes/builds require, it means that I can choose a class dependent on my mood or find a playstyle that suits me.

Overall, I think that if it's too clicky intensive then often combat is less interactive as I'm too busy clicking rather than positioning myself or using utility moves (like intimidate or diplomacy for instance).

Clicky moves should generally do things not specifically DPS related I think but be situational in one way or another, hitting the same set of keys over and over again regardless of the context is as mind numbing as not hitting any at all sometimes.

[AZgreentea]

i play exactly the same way. that's why I think active combat style/approach should be more emphasized than a million clicks. Incorporate some of that clicking into how you actually combat an enemy instead.

Its said a few times in other places, but the main reason I play like that is to pay more attention to the game. If I try to reach for 6-0 or switch active hotbars I have to take my eyes off the action (or risk screwing up and accidentally hitting T or not being able to switch back to my main hotbar again in the middle of combat). I like the interactive combat style of the game, where I can tank the Orc in Shroud by running in circles around a tree on my Rogue. More than 5 things that I HAVE to click on in combat mean I am missing out on that. The rest of my hotbars are filled with things I can pay attention to when there isnt anything else going on at that moment, or if I have pulled myself out of combat to recover.