FEEDBACK: Active (clickies) vs Passive abilities

[Vazok1]

I actually agree with points 1 and 3 mostly and disagree with 2, I enjoy the chance to de-buff an enemy with your ability then gain benefit for it over someone else who doesn't use it, while that person that does not use it should not have the benefit if they are soloing or something I don't think they should be forced to use it. Smite evil would be a good example, no-one actually HAS to use it, but they gain more damage by using it.
However I don't like having to press things too often, monk strikes and things im cool with I use those all the time, but say for example haste boost only lasted 10 seconds, I would not use it as often the attack pause, while mathematically may not be too much of a negative, is just annoying

Edit: also, prefer the lets talk threads, feels like we're getting somewhere. These feel more like a polling station where you give your opinion and dont know what happens with it, but I understand your all short on time with the coming update.

[Gimpinator]

This thread scares me

An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...

This is how I feel. You can't just ask questions like this without the back end of the story. What is the alternative? Why is this even being considered? Do we really need to be changing things like this (spell pass, TWF and the likes), or is the motive simply to add something to future release notes?

It looks like you guys on the Mournlands have something up your sleeve, and because you gave example answers, I'm guessing the best feedback you're hoping for would be one of the four possible answers you've provided. In the spirit of keeping this simple, I'll submit my answer as follows:

1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better. Don't dumb it down.

The only possible thing that could make this thread more terrifying is Fernando Paiz asking the question himself.

[Rinnaldo]

In general, I like the clickie abilities. However, I tend not to use the ones that give temporary boosts (speed boosts being the exception). If they can be turned on and set, like power attack (or maximize), then fine, I'll use it. If it's like a temporary damage boost that lasts 30 seconds or something, I don't tend to use those.

Similarly, for magic, I will use items that grant a passive x boost to y type of magic (or to all magic), but not if I have to click on it every time (in other words, Efficacy bad, Potency good).

On melee characters, I like the ability to do different things in combat (cleave, sap, stun, trip, sunder, etc.), I think it feels like you have more control that way.

[voodoogroves]

The real issue is boosts with a cooldown vs. finite numbers of boosts. This is one area where you could apply some focus to improve melee capabilities.

I would, for instance, like Kensai Power Surge to operate more like either (a) Manyshot or (b) a Stance (stalwart)

Short term abilities need to stay. Boosts are awesome. Balance them a little and I'm happy.

[FrostBeard]

boosts action skills are great,
but of recent have a short lag animation,
please remove this as recasting mid combat breaks my attack chain.

also some clickies need to be longer. some are so short there pointless.

[Enoach]

My only melee character at the moment is a Paladin - by its very definition the epitome of active abilities (Boosts and spells)

And I love this kind of play.

However, I would not mind a review of "Casting" time on abilities like Divine Might for example.

What I like about DDO is you can customize your character to include as many Active options or Passive options you want, especially on a melee. In doing this you can tailor how you approach situations, be it full on DPS only to full on tactics. Each having its place, and being more effective depending on the situation.

Please don't take away Active abilities

[My2Cents]

I think you should not assume #4 is just for simplicity, it's actually two different things.
I'm between 3 and 4. I don't mind one or two boots now and again but they should be optional.

I do NOT think active boosts are required to keep our combat system better, the same things can be accomplished through toggels, passives and some clickies.

I don't like key mashing fests, we can keep our system complex and still rely mostly on passive abilities. That's one thing I really didn't like about another MMO I used to play.

Note the difference between say a metamqgic you can turn on and off, and the active boosts. I almost NEVER use the active boosts.

I am also older, and mashing keys/buttons hurts my fingers. I know I am not alone.

[Battlehawke]

I personally think that there should be less clickies in the game concerning player enhancements. There should be some, however too many seems to take away from actually watching the toons on the monitor and all the focus is on the buttons.

Perhaps, when tier two of a tree-lined is achieved, tier one clickie should be out dated and no longer used, as tier two includes the boost from tier one.

Also, this does need to be balanced some. For instance a Barbarian only has to click on a few things, while a Paladin needs to click on many things to be effective.

[Dawnsfire]

I think it depends. I am ok with moderate clicky use but definitely don't want the game to evolve into one of those games where I have to click lots of different 'combo moves' to make an attack.

A few before combat starts, a few boosts during combat and an occasional special attack move are cool. A couple of classes (like monk or paladin) are fine as more intense clicky classes but I wouldn't want to be forced to do that with every character I have.

[Silverleafeon]

When my completionist project first started melee lives, a few things other good players told me:

You are playing a monk first, it will spoil you for playing the other melee lifes later on.

(And other such comments detailing how the monk with its more complex combat system was more interesting to play.)

[nibel]

As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
X) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

As usual I thank you for your feedback.

3 all the way.

I have some trouble to keep remembering to activate short-term buffs all the time, so I prefer buffs that last a long time (and that's why I never drop extend in any caster I build). This made my pure monk and paladin experiences feel very poor.

In one hand, I love to "remember" that i have a special ability that can turn the tables in the combat: Saving someone with a Lay on Hands, activating a sprint boost to kite when I'm the last man standing, noticing that my displacement expired and recasting it... Heck, even my arcane archer usually only uses manyshot when she needs to clear a room fast, or on bosses.

Classes that requires extensive clicking to maintain a basic level of competence (paladins and monks) is not my kind of character. But I'm happy they are there, for people that like clicking.

And as people said, I don't consider basic spellcasting as a "clickie" ability. Buffing, winging, and DOTing, may be. But throwing a lightning bolt or a cure spell, is not. Most people that play casters usually repeat 2-4 spells in a cycle all the time, so, not that much difference from a melee holding the attack button and moving around.

[Kmnh]

I like clickies. Monks and sorcerers are fun to play because of all the optimizing you can do with ordering your moves and clicking them on the right time. Breaking the animation on the barbarian attack chain is fun, too. It gives you somewhing to pay attention too during long fights.

Passive abilities are usually boring and feel cheesy. Look at Divine Punishment - You click it, then you click it again 12s later, and poof - you are doing 250 DPS without doing anything.

I wish some of the self buffs were toggles, not clickies. Frenzy and Death Frenzy are the biggest offenders.

[PLUGintoTHEpowerLINE]

I prefer passive abilities and toggles(luv toggles) to something i need to click every minute and half to keep it going. If it lasts shorter than 90 seconds I generally ignore it except for Manyshot. I really, really don't want to be forced to micromanage at that level (less than 90 secs) to succeed. I know metamagics are toggles but I must say that I very much appreciate now being able to assign them to specific spells indefinitely... it sure cut down on the micromanaging during combat. By the way, I absolutely despise 30 sec boosts (skill, atk, AC, etc)... pretty much only use them when absolutely necessary. Specifically, I'm required to take the AC boost on my dwarven defender for her PrE but I almost never use it... really doesn't seem much point to it. I do use her haste boost for red names and tougher situations.

These are my sentiments exactly.

[Edwinge]

Personally, I think that clickies are a nice thing as long as they aren't something one would feel required to use as much as possible. I don't really enjoy watching cooldowns to use abilities as much as I can. I do think that having a large number of different yet all situationaly useful abilities is fun.

[daddio42]

I pick door number 3. (And I'd really like it if the Deepwoods Sniper capstone clicky was worth a hoot.)

[Vazok1]

I like clickies. Monks and sorcerers are fun to play because of all the optimizing you can do with ordering your moves and clicking them on the right time. Breaking the animation on the barbarian attack chain is fun, too. It gives you somewhing to pay attention too during long fights.

Passive abilities are usually boring and feel cheesy. Look at Divine Punishment - You click it, then you click it again 12s later, and poof - you are doing 250 DPS without doing anything.

I wish some of the self buffs were toggles, not clickies. Frenzy and Death Frenzy are the biggest offenders.

while i dont play a barbarian so i dont know about the rages but i agree with your meaning here.
however, toggles are nice, but again they are a a click once and forget buff then.

[Bloodhaven]

I don't mind some clickys but i chose classes for the passive ability.

I do not consider spells to be clickys.

[Xilth]

It boils down to:
* Active is good.
* Deciding when to activate is good.
* Activating every time it is off cooldown or needs refreshing is not good. (might as well be a passive or toggled)

I think the same way.


I would add something more, on my last life as caster i had a lot of clickies for spells, so i just refreshed them when they went off... with cannith crafting it was easy to make a lot of them so... i could run from one shrine, to another with them all the time... that was boring.

Difrent way was with Eardweller, its exclusive item so only 3 charges... chosing when to active it was important and always i had to think when to use it, now or wait for better moment? that kind of decision added a lot to gameplay.

Clickies shouldn't be for spaming and using them all the time, but for chosing right time for them.

[LeLoric]

As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

As usual I thank you for your feedback.

1. except monks they got enough buttons to push

[ZeroTakenaka]

As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

As usual I thank you for your feedback.

I'm between 2 and 3. Sometimes I like not having to think too much. Clickies are indeed useful but sometimes I second-guess myself and either not use them much or wait until the quest is over. I don't like being timed when clickies are used when you use them too late and now you have to hurry to the next one to get at least some use out of the clicky.

As far as spell clickies(from items), they are too weak. Even wands are too weak to really provide any help mainly because the monsters always save against the DCs of the wands. That and they don't do good enough damage. Wands should be buffed.